the Human affect?

[saabtech]

It certainly shows how wasteful we are of the absolute best natural (and renewable!) resource out there. All this bickering around the country and around the world about energy and oil... that energy and money would be better off finding more efficient ways of doing things.

I'd like to say I appreciate the effort to clarify the facts and list sources. This is a heavy topic--emotionally and intellectually. Saying "I agree" doesn't further the dialogue. Even if someone doesn't agree, no reasonable discussion can occur without listing sources and facts. With opinion only, it can degenerate from debate to argument.

very well said. bravo! i would sure hate to digress into total opinion on the matter because that can become very personal. i have began a extensive study on the matter of "energy" because i was always taught to question the validity of everything. this being the most widely debated topic in the western world i thought that i should become well versed in it.

[saabtech]

sorry kevin, i was not trying to make light of your efforts. i do appreciate the calculations, and it is interesting to see how little we actually consume compared to the amount of energy the sun provides. i do think that to really talk about the effect humans have on the earth, we have to look at more than just energy consumption.

what would you say would be another variable in context of "human affect"

[hobogato]

a major factor in our effect on the earth is the ridiculous amount of waste we produce, from technological waste to plastics. this also includes chemical waste like medicines and cosmetics. we are causing unfathomable damage to ecosystems by dumping these contaminants into them. some of the results include the huge areas of garbage in the oceans where the plastics have become a suspension in the seawater - effectively destroying the food chain in those areas. the horrible drinking water contaminated by metals and chemicals in third world countries where we ship much of that tech waste is another result. then there is the altering of the fish and amphibians in many freshwater ecosystems due to the hormones and other medicines that make their way into those ecosystems.

[edit]it seems those are a bit off topic for this thread on energy tho

[saabtech]

[edit]it seems those are a bit off topic for this thread on energy tho

well that may seem off topic but i agree completely with all those statements. Energy is a factor in all of those scenarios and those are MUCH less debatable in the context of "impact", maybe waste management (ie. oil spills) should be the "most widely" discussed topic of the western world instead of "human energy consumption and effect of the atmosphere", a debate that (in my opinion) has little empirical data to support the main stream claims.

[hobogato]

i agree kevin, too much emphasis is put on decreasing energy usage just for the sake of using less. more emphasis needs to be put on energy production by less pollutive means. like you and others have mentioned, we should be more concerned with inefficiency and problems because of inefficiency (like waste and pollution, etc.) in the energy production process.