WEB MEMBERS LISTEN UP!!!

[captexas]

Out of curiosity, who is pushing for this change? Charter members? I find it rather interesting that it was charter members who pushed to block web members from posting in the For Sale forums to begin with and now it's charter members pushing web members to vote on getting the rules changed back. Did Charter members finally realize they miss out on a lot of good deals and a lot of sales by blocking out the web members? Seems this issue gets changed/changed back about every 2 years or so.

[tebstan]

You do realize this was just posted today right?
You guys gotta let these things ride for a little bit to get sufficient votes in. Some members may only be on here once a week, and even then, this thread may or may not catch their eye.

My point was that charters were voting, not web members. A few people presume to know what aaaallll the web members really want? I want to hear from them, not more of the same from the other thread.

[SoLiD]

David, I have been following along.. and I will say again.. I'm ok with the rule either way... I tried to sell something a while back and was told I had to be a charter so I paid up,, no biggie.. I just want to make sure I follow the logic here.. with this thread you are encouraging every WEB member who loves MAAST to become a charter member so they can vote to make starting for sale threads available to all members correct.
I want to ask a few questions and please, i'm not trying to be condescending for combative, this is simply for clarity and understanding.

1. is asking people to charter up so the can vote to affect the outcome any better than asking people to charter up for the priviledge of selling stuff?

Personally I would rather "Pay" to have a voice in a vote or an election out of my own free will, than feel forced to pay for something that used to be "Free" to everyone since the beginning of Maast. It was the simple ability to sell something to people in my local area that pulled me away from Reef Central and Nano-Reef when I initially had found those forums first so long ago. The simple act of selling something here on Maast is what in turn sold Maast to me.

2.I would think that most web members that love MAAST would be just as likey to pay for the priviledge to sell as they would for the priviledge to vote, don't you?

Well, yes, I see your point. The way I see it, Web Members are just as important to Maast as Charter Members. Well, more so when you consider that everyone starts off as a Web Member before they "choose" to graduate in to Charter Member Status. I just don't like alienating anyone from this site when there so many others to choose from.

3. as a charter member yourself.. the rule doesn't affect you either way...it only affects web members.. would you say most web members don't have the money to charter up.. or just don't care enough about MAAST to.. fighting for the those that cant afford it makes a bit more sense

True, it doesn't affect me now because I "Chose" to become a Charter Member. The $25 fee may not be a lot of money to some and to some it might be. I personally would much rather pay to be a charter member because I want to make the site better than feel forced to later on over a "New Rule" that was put into effect without notice. I'm only fighting for a better Maast.

4. why not make this plea to all charter members?? web members cant vote unless they are charter members... and once they are charter members.. it doesn't matter, unless it affects the outcome of the vote in which case we move back to question 1.

I can already see how Charter Members are viewing the issue at hand from their posts in the Charter Membership Forum. My issue with that was the "Ones" the vote will be affecting have no way of knowing the discussion because the "Charter Membership Forum" can only be viewed by Charter Members. I brought the information here to this part of Maast to both inform and incite Web Members into action.

Again, these are sincere questions to help me understand why this is such a big deal to some people. I hope you understand i mean no disrespect

Thank you Mike, for taking the time to make your post tactful and gentleman like.

[Texreefer]

Very valid argument David, thank you! I am posting here so Web and charter alike can see it.. the following are some thoughts and reasoning as to why I will still vote to keep the Rule the same as it is now:
1. I do agree that if something being voted on that affects soley web members, that they should be made aware of this rule in advance.. It may have been but honestly I don't know because not long ago I wasnt spending a whole lot of time on this site.
2. Being a "long time" member myself and having served on the board, I know and understand the frustrations that come along with policing something like this and until a better solution comes along, this is the most viable option...
3. something like 3000 web members and around 120 charter members? correct? I would be intersted in how many active web members(those with at least one post a month) we have that have been active longer than a year. my point here, and its just my personal opinion, is that the majority of new web members are new to the hobbie and have nothing to sell anyway. the verteran web members have been around long to enough to know what an asset this site is (or they wouldn't still be here) so they should have no problem supporting a great cause and having the priviledge to sell as well. thats just my logic. I would even venture to say that without the 120 charter members, the web members would not have a site to go to, they are the backbone, the nervous system of the organization.
4. this point must be made. "Web Member" is not a bad word.. I was one at different times during my stay here so I would never use that term condescendingly.
5. all the "post count" and "tenure" talk concerning for sale threads DOES NOT WORK or the Board would not have made the rule change in the first place, so until a better solution comes along, I see no reason to change it, and in addition I would caution and advise those charter members that are pushing for this change to stay more active. this is the second discussion and vote on this subject so apparently many charter members missed it the first time around.. kind of like saying " Hey. wait i wasn't paying attention, can we have a do over,... please"
6 Web members..Have not heard much from you.. Only one web member so far has posted here and Erik has been around for a while and been a charter member before.. this cause is for you so you are not helping yourself by staying silent.. you are lending credence to the current rule staying the same. Give the charters some compelling reasons why you should be allowed to sell stuff without being a charter. most of the arguments have come from charter members.
7. my vote will be to keep the rule as is

[Europhyllia]

I was not going to post on this thread because I really feel this is the web members' opportunity to be heard so no charters should vote on this poll etc.

After reading Mike's summary though I just wanted to voice my agreement especially to this one:
1)

all the "post count" and "tenure" talk concerning for sale threads DOES NOT WORK or the Board would not have made the rule change in the first place, so until a better solution comes along, I see no reason to change it," ...

and
2)

"Web Member" is not a bad word..

1) moderating this board can be a nightmare - I only lasted a few weeks. lol. It's tough. The current rule makes moderating much less of a headache
2) Somebody pointed out to me that my post about the perks available to all members including web members was offensive to web members (link) and I didn't intend it that way at all. Basically there are two options to participate in this site and one might be a better fit for you than the other. I like to be involved so the charter membership is perfect for me. Otherwise there really is nothing wrong with being a web member either. I think depending on what you want to get out of this both web and charter options are equally good.

[ErikH]

You all should take ten popular forums, analyze all of their rules, and see what's best for our club without our rules being overbearing in comparison.

[Europhyllia]

I think there are a lot of people that are sincerely trying to do what's best for our club without being overbearing RIGHT NOW based on all of the information that has been gathered in the past via votes, discussion, trial and error, etc.

[justahobby]

Forums like RC are able to have a little more lax selling rules because they moderate heavily, no questions asked later. No one wants that for a local club...do they? It's funny how people get upset and threaten to run off to RC. Obviously they haven't been using RC like MAAST because they have a zero tolerance policy over there. They don't know you from Adam or Eve and could care less what your intentions were. It's a great place for information, but it ain't Cheers

[Europhyllia]

It's not like you have to get married to MAAST. You can totally do both - RC AND MAAST. And we don't have to try to be totally identical to RC just because it's popular. If MAAST annoys me I don't mind spending more time at my Seahorse site to chill a bit. If I got specific questions I have no qualms asking Cliff and Randy on RC for answers.
And I've sold fish stuff on RC, Craiglist, MAAST and Ebay. Each have some advantages and disadvantages.
We don't expect anybody to be exclusive with MAAST. ;) Just get what you need from wherever you can get it

[Regric25]

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