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Thread: Red Bug Alert

  1. #1

    Default Red Bug Alert

    When it rains it pours they say, so my bad week keeps getting worse :( . I am hoping it doesn't become anyone else's bad week now....

    We spotted some redbugs on some acros this morning. Looks like they are mostly on a few seaworld frags. It's impossible to say where they came from but I'm going to let seaworld know so they can check their stock.

    We are treating with inteceptor now.

    If you have recently purchased acros (they are acropora specific) and you did NOT do a preventative dip before putting them in your tank then you should take a CLOSE look at the acro's. They do not appear to have spread to most acro's in our tank, but even if you don't see any you might want to take them out and do a Lugol's dip if you did not do so before hand. Here is a quote from RC by Eric Borneman about Lugol's Dips in regards to red bugs...

    <a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=2978370#post2978 370 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EricHugo
    We used two heartworm medicines - Interceptor and HeartGuard- took a long time to kill bugs, and even after 24 hours, some were still alive. Like I said, this is ok in a QT tank if you have the time and dollars to spare and can procure the drug. To be fair, the corals tolerate the meds well, but it is defintely not an approved use of the drug, and treating the tank will, if it is effective against these crustaceans, be effective against all the other things you don't want to kill - not the least of which would be the biomass pollution resulting from mass bug, bacteria, and worm kill of a well populated tank.

    Ordinary 10 drop/liter Lugol's is basically worthless, too, but we used 5-10ml liter for times from 30 seconds to 10 minutes. At five to ten minutes, the 5ml dosage stressed the corals, and they had some bleaching. The 10ml dosage was worse. But, at less than 5 minutes for the 5ml dosage, and 2-3 minutes for the 10ml dosage, all corals tolerated it fine, no bleaching, and 100% kill of bugs. The vast majority had died and turned black, falling to the bottom, within seconds. I pipetted a few bugs off the coral and put them directly into a dish with that strength Lugol's under a dissecting scope and they went catatonic almost instantly and were dead within 30 seconds. I am not sure what allows those remaining few to survive for up to a few minutes, but some do. None survive beyond it. We were able to reduce that time to 1-2 minutes at 5ml dosage if a pipette was used to dislodge any stragglers that failed to jump off the coral or die outright in that time period. Like I said, a magnifying glass will confirm that they are clear. Of course, those corals have to be put into a QT tank for the period during which the bugs remain alive in the tank without a host because some do jump off when you move a coral in the tank - and they swim very well and frequently swim stright back towards other Acropora - amazing to watch.

    If it turns out they have a complex life cycle or actually do have other potential hosts, then we're in trouble. But, so far so good and no reappearance after treating around 100 or more Acropora of many species.
    Please get in touch with me or Mark if you need further information or assistance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    05-30-2005
    Location
    South Austin
    Posts
    560

    Default RE: Red Bug Alert

    ****, sooo sorry richard. I hope it turns out to be less of a problem than it might appear to be.

    How extremely responsible and helpful of you though! I wish CB was closer to Austin, though i do intend to visit again despite the distance. It is definitly worth the 2hr round trip!!

    Best of luck to you.
    200 gallon on the way
    robert

  3. #3

    Default RE: Red Bug Alert

    Thanks Ham!

    The treatment is pretty straight forward for us since we never put shrimps & crabs in our acro tank, just in case we ever got them.
    The one acro that had the most of them is almost clean now, only a couple red bugs left. I have been watching them die and fall off thinking die suckers die.

    I just want people to be aware so if they did get an acro with one they wouldn't spend weeks/months trying to figure out what was going on.

  4. #4

    Default

    Richard, it is refreshing to see you be the first to post "We got BUGS"! AND then turn around and offer advice on treatment.

    Truly an admirable business model ... thank you for being part of MAAST and for your business ethics :wub

    Good luck on the treatments! Guess it's nice having a Vet next door ;)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    02-12-2003
    Location
    Kendalia, Texas
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Well - As Richard said some weeks can suck. I believe we are doing the right thing as to letting everyone know about these nasty little critters as well as correcting this situation on our end. This is my first (and I think Richard's) first experience with the little beasts. I know some of you have had experiences with them as well.

    If you have questions - post them and we or others with experiences with them will hopefully also respond as well.

    Anyway, I did snap some pictures of the little beasts today so you will know what they look like. Here are a couple pics of the little critters. There have been plenty of discussion right on here on MAAST and just do a search for "Redbug" or "Red Bug".

    They are easy to see on this pic (just follow the arrow).


    And a crop of the above pic so that we may see our enemy a little closer

  6. #6

    Default

    Eric Borneman's solution is great, but, its not possible to dip an entire tank or systems with thousands of acro heads, thats why the milbemycin treatment came to be. It may kill some crustaceans but that drug is not bacterialcidal so the only life at risk in a reef is in the crustacean line. Mostly mysis, hermits, coral crabs and similar and if the user does not overdose, a feat extremely difficult to do, then most of those crabs and shrimp will live on too. Getting the dose right is the main issue with the milbemycin. Best bet for a reefer is in the prevention line. Dip and QT first, then put them in the main display. Anyone can unknowingly pass them on because they are very, very difficult to see when there is only a few.

    An interesting note if anyone is trying to see these things, they are completely invisible under blue light. A perfect camo in the ocean perhaps. You will need a bright white light. In other words, all 10k's on or a powerful flashlight beam. You will think the corals are clean under blue (actinic) light. They will not show on a photo under blue light either. Anyone with strictly 20k lighting is likely to need to use a strong flashlight to see them.
    Larry
    INSTAR
    CEO, Biologist
    "Heck, the water is clear, must be good"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    12-13-2004
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    587

    Default

    Kudos Richard. For your forthrightness, honestly, and asisstance. This is the kind of openess that most serious aquarists will not soon forget.
    Thanks,
    John
    John
    220 gal reef
    60 gal (inactive)

  8. #8

    Default

    Man, this is further verification that I picked the right frickin fish store to be my favorite!

    1) Quarantines
    2) great advice
    3) not afraid to try new things
    4) ALWAYS helpful
    5) Lets the world know they have an infection when they know it could hurt business.

    This proves beyond a doubt that you guys have a tremendous level of class, and I am proud to call you friends.
    "Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean ? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind." ~ Jack Handey

  9. #9
    Join Date
    11-10-2005
    Location
    NW San Antonio
    Posts
    767

    Default

    I have never seen a red bug or flatworm at all and i bet a lot of people here in maast never have either. you can take all the pictures you like but untill you see them in person most will never know what they are.you seem to be the man of experiments and honesty why dont youset up a nano or two with afflicted corals so that people maybe able to see the problems first hand. turn this tragedy into an educational tool and when you want, try different experiments on how to eliminate these problems. its just a suggestion since i know that you are a busy man.

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