Newb Questions

[Ram_Puppy]

I have seen several people refer to 'closed loops' when I am reading about their sump/refugium setup... seems to me a closed loop would simply recircuate the same water over and over... can some one explain that to me?


Also, If I set up a refugium and I want 'pods to make it back up into the main tank, how can this be done? It seems like the impeller in the pump would chop them up. It seems like a pump with a 'screw' design would be better suited for this, are there any on the market?

The reason I ask, is my main tank is 30 gallons, and I am going to replace it, as it has some unfixable scratches on it, I have invested to much in the stand and canopy to go with another size at this point, so I am going to make the 30 hex a refugium, and put a new, drilled, 30 hex up where the main tank goes. I was going to put about six inches of live sand in the refugium, another 40 or so pounds of live rock, and buy an amphipod breeding kit from IPSF. When I reach a point where I think I can keep a population of pods going, I was thinking of putting a mandarin in the main tank. I know many people say 90 is the smallest you should go, but i have read that you can go smaller if you have a fuge supplying live food as well... If I can't sustain the mandarin, I will of course find him a better home (or use it as an excuse to set up a new tank.)

If need be, I am planning on incorporating a couple 10 gallon breeding tanks into to stand for mysis and pods, or whatever I might need to produce.

The only other tank inhabitants will be two maroon clowns, a BT anemone, and a few corals. I want to keep the stocking very light.
(and the clean up crew of trocus snails, 2 electric blue crabs, 2 electric oranges, 1 halloween and about 10 zebra hermits.

I am all for experimentation, and as most of what i am doing is DIY, I figure I am in a good position to learn some new things. Rest assured, I won't put any livestock in danger.

I hope to have pictures of my canopy up soon.

[matt]

I'll try to answer a few of your questions. Yes you are circulating the same water, but that's exactly what you're doing all the time with any water movement scenario in aquariums. What else would you be doing? It's the movement of the water that is required by sessile invertibrates.

Small animals from the refugium sometimes do get killed by pump impellers; how much is not really known or agreed upon. Larger pumps tend to have more clearance within the impeller, and are thought to be less lethal to small animals. But, most of the animals that get swept into the water stream are VERY small, microscopic larvae, etc. Larger animals like adult amphipods and mysid shrimp are usually good enough swimmers to stay out of the return pump.

You have a lot of hermits; these will also decimate your copepod population in a small tank. I'm pretty sure the only way you'd have success with a mandarin in this size tank is to find one that wil accept food like frozen bloodworms. They definitely exist; you just have to find one. I had one in my 10 gal for over a year. Ironically, when I moved it to a larger tank, it got swept up in the overflow and died.

HTH

[Ram_Puppy]

Wow, you learn something every day, I knew hermits were opportunistic, but these pacific species are supposed to lean more to the algae side, and the zebras are 'micro' hermits that are supposed to be exclusive algae eaters. Hmmm..

so, closed loop does not go to a refugium? just runs water from one side of the tank to the other via a pipe in the back? (sorry if I am being numb!)

Oh, and the larvae thing makes sense... Seems like the IPSF sea bunnies would be a good thing to put in there, but at 30 bucks for two, and their supposed reproductive prowess, I was kind of hoping some one on MAAST would be overwhelmed with them and offer a few up. Like all of you I am sure, I am all about making my system as self sustaining as possible.

So, a far as finding a mandarin that will take food, trial and error I guess? I have been told feeding them before purchase, a time honored practice, usually just causes them to sump their intestines and bladder in their shipping bag and drop PH... so I guess have the store feed them to see, and then come back the next day. of course, if there are any goodies in the tank... patience I know... that is still months away for me. I still have 20 pounds of lalo that need to be purchase, cured, and put int he tnak before that happens!

[Ram_Puppy]

Oh, And Thanks matt! this is not the first time you have 'edumacated' me!

[brewercm]

Correct on the closed loop. Just and outlet to pump with inlet/inlets to tank for water movement.

[Ram_Puppy]

thanks guys.