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[jrossjr79]

I have recently moved into a bigger house, yay!!! So I now have room for a tank. I am thinking of a 150 Gallon reef tank with a refuge sump and a protein skimmer. Here alas some questions to know how I need to set everything up.

How big of a refuge sump tank would I need to efficiently filter my display tank of 150G?

How does all the plumbing work? To be more exact I know I need a pump to go from the sump to the main tank, but do I need a pump coming from the main tank to the sump? Or is it all done with gravity of overflow? Refuge/sump will be on the bottom if that helps any? Also all equipment I want on bottom, Chiller and heater if I need them, protein skimmer, hydrometer (or does this need to be in the display tank?). How would I keep the sump or main tank from overflowing with a power outage?

Also would like to know with this kind of setup is it beneficial to having an ozone reactor or UV Steralizer, or are those things I can do with out?

I know alot of these are noobie questions, but been having trouble finding the answers on my own, since it seems that just about all tanks are different in regards to all this.

[allan]

I wish I had enough time to answer your questions in detail. But I'm off to a meeting. if no one else jumps in I can fill in some blanks.

1. Largest sump possible that will fit under your tank, and if it were larger than your display, that would be good too. But most don't.

2. pump up, never down. The overflow will bring the water back down to the bottom.

where do you live, you should stop by one of our places to pick our brains a bit before you go too far down a rabbits hole. If you're up in the stoneoak area or bulverde, I would gladly open my home to a visit.

[jrossjr79]

Off in the Windcrest area

Thanks for the quick reply Allan, always a pleasure hearing from you, you saved me from a huge mistake about a yr or two ago

[Mr Cob]

I'll take a quick stab at a few items...me in blue

I have recently moved into a bigger house, yay!!! So I now have room for a tank. I am thinking of a 150 Gallon reef tank with a refuge sump and a protein skimmer. Here alas some questions to know how I need to set everything up.

How big of a refuge sump tank would I need to efficiently filter my display tank of 150G? What Allan said, largest possible, I would say atleast 75gallons of sump water...preferably 100g+

How does all the plumbing work? To be more exact I know I need a pump to go from the sump to the main tank, but do I need a pump coming from the main tank to the sump? Or is it all done with gravity of overflow? Refuge/sump will be on the bottom if that helps any? What Allan said, overflow/drilled tank (skip the hang on back or HOB overflows and go with a drilled tank), water is sent back to tank with a pump. Also all equipment I want on bottom, Chiller and heater if I need them, protein skimmer, hydrometer (or does this need to be in the display tank?). How would I keep the sump or main tank from overflowing with a power outage? You would simply drill a couple of holes in your return nozzles to create a reverse syphon...as water drains from the tank to the sump it will catch air and breakt he syphon preventing your sump from being overflowed with tank water. It's important that your sump can hold the difference though and may require some testing to get it just right.

Also would like to know with this kind of setup is it beneficial to having an ozone reactor or UV Steralizer, or are those things I can do with out? You can do without those for now, add them as needed if ever they are needed, perhaps keep an open design with room and space to add equipment later.

I know alot of these are noobie questions, but been having trouble finding the answers on my own, since it seems that just about all tanks are different in regards to all this. Have you thought about maybe trying a smaller scale first? Perhaps a all in one unit to get some of the basics down first or maybe a 40-50g cube that could later be used as a frag tank to the 150g you mentioned? Just a thought. I look forward to seeing your progress .

[jrossjr79]

I appreciate the response Mr Cob, although I do value your opinion on starting smaller, but I rather take the leap to get a 150G, that way I dont have to hear the wife complain about the expenses more than once. She already dont like the idea of spending so much money and not have anything in the tank but sand and live rock for awhile, lol.


Also I still have not gotten an answer for the hydrometer, can I put it in the sump/refuge tank, or does it have to be in the main tank?


As far as refuge designs, most designs I have seen have incoming water to both sides, one side being for the protein skimmer and the other side being a refuge, then the return water comes from the middle. My question for this is does the return have to be in the middle? If not, which way is better, intake to the skimmer then to refuge then to return area, or refuge to skimmer to return, or does this make much of a difference?

Also on the refuge, I was thinking about DSB, live rock, and algae, which algae would be better? Is there anything else I should add to it? Also do I put in the algae before, during, or after cycling of the tanks?

[Big_Pun]

go check out some tanks even at local fish stores. your welcome to swing by and see mine and talk reef. keep asking questons!!

[StevenSeas]

I have recently moved into a bigger house, yay!!! So I now have room for a tank. I am thinking of a 150 Gallon reef tank with a refuge sump and a protein skimmer. Here alas some questions to know how I need to set everything up.

How big of a refuge sump tank would I need to efficiently filter my display tank of 150G?

How does all the plumbing work? To be more exact I know I need a pump to go from the sump to the main tank, but do I need a pump coming from the main tank to the sump? Or is it all done with gravity of overflow? Refuge/sump will be on the bottom if that helps any? Also all equipment I want on bottom, Chiller and heater if I need them, protein skimmer, hydrometer (or does this need to be in the display tank?). How would I keep the sump or main tank from overflowing with a power outage?

Also would like to know with this kind of setup is it beneficial to having an ozone reactor or UV Steralizer, or are those things I can do with out?

I know alot of these are noobie questions, but been having trouble finding the answers on my own, since it seems that just about all tanks are different in regards to all this.

First off congratulations on the upgrade. As far as how big of a sump to go with, I agree with Allan go as big as you possibly can. I would shoot for a minimum of 15-20% of your total tank volume so somewhere around a 30gallon or larger sump should be a good starting place.

For plumbing again like Allan said you only want to pump up not down. Also you never want to try to match 2 pumps of one draining and one filling. To get the water from the sump to the display tank you will need a pump to pump the water up and into the tank. This water is filling the tank a X gph (this is determined by your return pump gph rating at the head difference between your tank and your sump) Now to get that water back down you would need an overflow box of some sort. There are 2 main kinds and sub categories of each. One involves having a tank drilled with holes in the glass, this is the much preferred way and if you are buying new it cost about the same. The other involves what is known as an overflow box. It is actually 2 boxes one inside the tank and one outside the tank. There is a "U" tube connecting the two boxes and it creates a siphon and drains the water from the box inside the tank to the exterior much like a siphon that you would use to clean your tank. This method relies on gravity and sometimes can be problematic after powerups. (But there is a cool new overflow design that totally prevents this issue.)

Both of these methods of draining involve a box of some form in the interior of the tank that extends to the top of the tank. The water that you are pumping up from the sump will make the water level in the display tank rise until it reaches the point where it will overflow into the box and then begin to drain into your sump. When the power is off your tank will drain what water is inside the box as well as any water that is above the water level in the tank. Make sure that you have this volume available in your sump so that in a power outage you wont get a flood.

As far as ozone and UV goes the are not a need however, they are nice to have in my opinion. Of the two 9 times out of 10 I would go ozone in either a dedicated reactor or a protein skimmer built for ozone use. If the benefits of this is something you think you might like to have in the future I would recommend ensuring to get a skimmer that can handle the use of ozone.

[Mr Cob]

well if you are employing the "Go Big or Go Home" method then definitely take your time, visit as many tanks as possible, do google image searches of reef systems, then draw up some schematics/plans and post them up to let everyone help you out on your design.

I would say your main needs to get started would be:

-Tank (drilled)
-Stand
-Canopy (depends on your lighting selection and display preference)
-Refugium/Sump typically 3 sections; intake, refugium, return section
-Return Pump
-Skimmer
-Large Heater (normally not needed on large tanks but should still be purchased and set up as a back up in the winter months)
-Powerheads for main tank or wavemaker
-Live Rock
-Light for Refugium
-Lights for main display
-Sand (a lot of it if you plan a DSB or deep sand bed)

First important add ons:
-Auto Top-off (highly recommend this otherwise you will be adding RO water daily
-RO/DI unit (another must have otherwise you'll be lugging 5 gallon jugs around to and from the LFS weekly)

A lot of that is also questionable depending on what your plans are but that's the standard setup.

[StevenSeas]

Also I still have not gotten an answer for the hydrometer, can I put it in the sump/refuge tank, or does it have to be in the main tank?


As far as refuge designs, most designs I have seen have incoming water to both sides, one side being for the protein skimmer and the other side being a refuge, then the return water comes from the middle. My question for this is does the return have to be in the middle? If not, which way is better, intake to the skimmer then to refuge then to return area, or refuge to skimmer to return, or does this make much of a difference?

Also on the refuge, I was thinking about DSB, live rock, and algae, which algae would be better? Is there anything else I should add to it? Also do I put in the algae before, during, or after cycling of the tanks?

As for the hydrometer, I have seen and used the kind that constantly stay in the tank. I don't like these and wont ever use one again, as I had issues with algae growing on the inside and preventing the swing arm from operating properly.

There are pros and cons to both setups of sump/refugium designs. If the return isn't in the middle I would skim after the refugium. However, I like the design of the trigger systems crystal and ruby elite sumps. It drains into both the skimmer and refugium section, and the refugium then flows into the skimmer section. This is the both of best worlds in my opinion. This causes all the water to be able to get skimmed, while maintaining a low enough flow through the refugium to be beneficial as a refugium wont be as effective at higher flow rates.

I like to use a DSB and Live rock rubble with cheatomorpha (cheato) in the refugium as a starting point. If possible though growing many different types of macro algae is beneficial as each has its own niche of removing organics in differing ratios and so I think you get a little better competition from your macros for the "undesirable" algae that will grow in your display tank.

[jrossjr79]

Thank you Mr Cob and Steven, This gives me the info I need to start the planning stages. And here soon I will be making a visit to Pollys Pet Store in UC to check out those tank setups and talk reef. Mr Cob do you have a physical store location? I noticed you have an option of picking up orders, but only on certain days and times. So not sure if you have a store front or are working out of a warehouse, would love to come by and see your setups as well.