WHY DON’T YOU HAVE LED YET?

[alton]

I don’t know? I got close I had one SOL light in the basket at Reef Geek and then pressed the back button, Darn it.
The positives I have come across are
1. Look nice
2. Cooler (depending on which brand)
3. Less power cost
4. Controllability (depending on which brand)
5. Suppose to last a long time
6. No more changing lamps (maybe)

The negatives are
1. Warranty is only one, maybe two years (you sell me a light that is suppose to last ten years then warrant it for ten)
2. To get the coverage on my tank which is large I am looking at $3,200 for the really good fixtures, and only $1,500 with the less expensive. ( but the less expensive draw as much power as my MH)
3. The one thing that is in the back of every ones mind? How long will the lamps continue to put out great color?

Okay so what is your excuse, you know now mine?

Oh yea I did trade for a Marineland Reef Capable which is doing a pretty good job on my 40 long.

[Europhyllia]

3. The one thing that is in the back of every ones mind? How long will the lamps continue to put out great color?


Here's what I took into consideration: when the white LEDs age they shift towards blue. As MH and T5s age they shift towards red. So while an aging LED may in time shift color it's towards a color already in use in reefkeeping and not encouraging nuisance stuff like cyano, etc.
So the worry is less about spectrum shift and more about intensity.
They have been around long enough to make me feel pretty confident that the quality LEDs in quality fixtures that are run at 100% for 5 years really do have a drop down to 70% is correct info.
Because I am such a planner I actually have it set to where even now I don't have it on 100%. I have white at 70% and blues at 40% each and I get a reminder email every 6 months to tweak it up 3% so when it is at the 5 year mark there's a good chance I can tweak out an extra year, maybe more because obviously I never run them at 100% and I definitely don't run them 24 hours at 100%.
Try tweaking your MHs or T5s up a few percent in a few months...

The only problem I see is really PRICE. it's expensive. But I love it. No regrets. The 4 modules on my 6ft tank are perfectly adequate for my reef even at 70%

[FireWater]

My biggest hurdle has been the price up front to get coverage on my new tank. It hurts to drop that much right off the bat. With that said, I pulled trigger on 2 AI Sol's and plan to buy the 3rd once the tank gets going.
That is a total of $1600 for lights - that hurts. Hurts bad. I came to the realization that 3/4 of my tank cost is lighting. Then I started trying to do math on my other fixtures and the cost I put into them with purchase, bulb replacement, and energy draw - I think it all adds up to the same amount just spread out.

[FireWater]

One other hang up I have had was waiting for a proven track record. LED has been around long enough to make me feel secure in my purchase.

Now once I actually get water in this tank I am sure the next big thing will come along.

[ErikH]

Up front pricing is what's holding me back. My wife just quit her job recently to pursue the completion of her degree. We cannot justify spending 2000 dollars on new lights for the aquarium right now. That's why I settled and went back to MH. :) I am going to purchase some for supplementation as that cost is feasible.

[ErikH]

There are these which look like unbranded Evolutions fixtures... (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/401427/210395354/120W-LED-Aquarium-Light-Timer-3-Switch-Optional-.html)

[kkiel02]

As many others have said it is the up front cost that is holding me back. I dont even want to start to price out what it would cost to run some AI's. My plan is to slowly start buying them as supplementation then maybe switch over unless they get plasma lighting up and running before then.

Erik those do look like evolutions huh?

[Europhyllia]

Honestly I'd rather piece together an AI one component at a time than waste money on some Chinese knock off. With a lot of things and especially with LEDs there's a huge quality difference and while I am all for getting a good deal I am not into getting cheap things cheap.

[CoryDude]

Stephen's AI fixture was the first tank I saw outside a store setting that used LED's. The heat output, or lack thereof, was really amazing. The dimming capabilities and the storm setting were out of sight.

But there's something about the over all color that I didn't like. Maybe it was too white, too blue, who knows. For some reason the tanks using halides just have a warmth to them that I prefer over led's.

I can say that for some reason, I had trouble getting accurate colors when photographing Stephen's tank vs the others using halides. So I guess my reason is price (like everyone else), and overall color.

[Europhyllia]

But color controlability is what's so awesome about quality LED fixtures.
My seahorse tank has a totally different feel than my reef tank.
Sure you can have it super blue like it seems to be the rage but you can control each individual color component in 1% increments.

[Regric25]

I can say that for some reason, I had trouble getting accurate colors when photographing Stephen's tank vs the others using halides. So I guess my reason is price (like everyone else), and overall color.

I am glad you said this Cory! I have the same problem when shooting stuff that uses LEDs. For some reason the blue LEDs come out super blue in the camera and it blasts the color right out of the image.

I think we all know why I dont have LED yet lol. Maybe when I get back into it LEDs will be inexpensive.

[tonyydeee]

Because I'm a teenager :D

[ErikH]

Because I'm a teenager :D


::ahem:: Take some senior pics for people and pay for it! :p

[ErikH]

Which, btw, are very good. You have great talent for your age.

[CoryDude]

I am glad you said this Cory! I have the same problem when shooting stuff that uses LEDs. For some reason the blue LEDs come out super blue in the camera and it blasts the color right out of the image.

I think we all know why I dont have LED yet lol. Maybe when I get back into it LEDs will be inexpensive.

Good, I thought it was just me. No matter how I adjusted the white balance (adding blue, red, yellow, or green) I still wasn't totally happy with the results.

All things aside, I do plan on adding an ecoxotic panorama fixture to the 60 cube when money is available.

[Europhyllia]

Do you really find this too blue?
http://www.dominopads.com/poppyandpatchesmarch11.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/shtank030211.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/orangemacro.jpg

and then huge difference from one tank to the next:
http://www.dominopads.com/020811_1.jpg

Honestly even with both of my tanks being LED lit and both being in the same room I think there's a HUGE difference in warmth and color tone. I based the way I set it the different intensities on what I imagined the different environments to looks like:
shallower and warmer light tones for the seahorse tank and cooler, slightly more bluer deeper tones for the Caribbean Reef. No deep sea blue for either though.

Here's a video that takes a lot of patience to watch but it will take you through a whole range of color possibilities with the AI SOL Super Blue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbjwFUyNyyI
ugh now I can't get that drowning song out of my head.

Anyway. If you don't like LED that's okay. ;)

But I wouldn't base my opinion on just one or two tanks lit with it because possibilities vary so widely with this lighting source and even with the same fixture there are huge adjustment possibilities (probably more so with the more controllable AI fixtures than the Ecoxotics)

Plus I know you are such a perfectionist with your pictures so I might look at mine and say: that's pretty! (even though I haven't even gotten to read the manual about White Balance yet, etc.) while you may see color flaws I don't even notice!
Happens to me with music all the time. Somebody will complain about the sound in my car and to me it will be like: What static? I don't know what static you're talking about...

[alton]

But color controlability is what's so awesome about quality LED fixtures.
My seahorse tank has a totally different feel than my reef tank.
Sure you can have it super blue like it seems to be the rage but you can control each individual color component in 1% increments.

This is why I got so close in ordering one. And then you post pictures which are awesome. I just want to go out and push the check out button again.
(PS: I think someone here secretly works for AI?) But we still luv ya Karin.

[Europhyllia]

Sorry!
Actually Seahorse Fixture is NOT AI!!!

Stephen assembled it for me. I ordered parts for it from all over the world including Australia because I wanted a certain BIN# of LEDs to get that super warm feel for the seahorse tank.

I think both fixtures turned out great for the type of tanks they are on. Love the warm swampy feel of the seahorse tank and the cooler reef tank feel of the big tank.

So if you want to really obsess about colors DIY is the way to go. If you just need high tweakability from an off-the-shelf fixture then I think AI is currently in the lead for that.

I just wanted to show the difference because saying the color on LED tanks isn't good would be like saying you hate green cars because the color is just too bright (like what kind of green car? Could be lime green or could be olive green -totally different)

And lots of things to consider with the colors too:

The cooler spectrum of the reef tank really helps A LOT with cyano. Switching to LED wiped out a huge cyano problem for me. It also was the reason I actually decided on the SOL Super Blue fixture over the SOL white because the spectographs on the SOL White showed more red spectrum (probably great for Cory's pics but not so great for my sanity because I hate looking at cyano)

http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/AI-Sol-Blue.png

With that said I did get cyano during the cycle period on the seahorse tank with the warmer white LEDs. Nothing like the bubble creating mess I had with T5s but definitely pretty good growth of red slime as compared to the big reef tank with the cooler colors.

[alton]

Karin can you post a couple of close shots of your big tank please?

[alton]

With my Marineland LED the Cyano has not gone away just like your DIY fixture. Could be another reason to buy AI Sol LEDs if your Cyano has completely disappeared? That would be a great problem to not have to worry about cyano in the future. Sorry I forgot you had a DIY fixtue on the sea horse tank but I could not tell much difference? But I do have to admit I am a man and we do not look closely to details (according to my wife)

[CoryDude]

Karin, don't get me wrong. I totally agree with you that the controllability of the led's make them totally awesome. There's just too much data that points to the superiority of led technology. BTW, those were some really nice pics you posted!!!

But, for me it comes down to just being old fashioned. It's like the houses at christmas that are lit by led christmas lights vs those with old incandescent lights. There's just a different "feel" to the led's that seems cold. Or, the fact that I prefer listening to some music on vinyl vs electronic format.

Who knows, after I get the led's setup for my wife's tank, I might just convert and dump the halides on my tank.

[tonyydeee]

Which, btw, are very good. You have great talent for your age.


::ahem:: Take some senior pics for people and pay for it! :p

Haha I'm going to! I did last year (:
And thank you! :D

[Europhyllia]

Here you go Alton. The most close up one I have was the POTM for March:
http://www.dominopads.com/anemoneshrimp.jpg

and just from the tank:
http://www.dominopads.com/020811_8.jpg

No worries Cory.

I am actually not even clarifying it for you specifically but more for people that read this thread now or in the future and think: oh wow LEDs are always too blue - I don't want that. ;)

I really loved Troy's tank and he has MH over it. So I definitely don't think LEDs look *better* than MH. MH are beautiful.

Just replacing bulbs all the time, dealing with heat issues (especially unacceptable for the seahorse tank) and the whole energy consumption wasted for heat that needs more energy consumption through a chiller to make it usable for my purposes is beyond of what I would like so they're out of the question for me.

Aesthetically I can therefore only compare T5s and LEDs and I like LEDs aesthetically a heck of a lot better than T5s. That's all. :)

[alton]

Thanks Karin for posting. Once again I am jealous.
Okay I am telling my wife next years pay checks for teaching are going to LED lights.
Probably won't but it sounded good?
Sure glad she doesn't read MAAST, I would be in more trouble than I already am.