Time to have some fun.

[D_and_A_Custom]

I am going to do a multi tank system.I have a 125g and i am getting a 100g and a 29g biocube for my mantis shrimp.My plan is to use the 125 for fish only and use the 100 for reef.I just wanted ideas on the best way to light and finish filtering the system.

So here is what i have so far:
CF light for 125
CF light for 100
Cf light built in to biocube lid
200 or so pounds of live rock are in the 125 with a bunch of damsels and crabs breaking in the rock,fluval and aquaclear.
I have a redsea 150 hang on right now
(need to upgrade)
2 kuralia 4's
Fluval fx5
aquaclear 110
bio filter built into biocube
huge sump 4'Lx16"Dx20"H It is divided into 3 sections evenly first section will be bioballs above water level and live rock on the bottom;next will be refug;and last will be return pump and protein skimmer.

I want to use the sump for both tanks.I will put an overflow on each tank and t them togethor before line hits sump.Then t the return back to both tanks.I was going to plum the tank for the mantis srimp into the system.But know that it will have its own filter i dont know if i should.I plan to put most of the live rock between the sump and the 100 g.I will also leave the fluval fx5 on the 125 filled with foam and bio media to help with the waist from the fish only tank.I was going to put both kuralias in the 100g for water movment.


Ok my main questions are.

What protien skimmer to use?(not too expenceive)

What lights to put with the 100 with the CF it is comming with for the corals i want?(i only like soft corals,stuff that moves and clams)

Should i have the tank for the mantis drilled to be on the system too?

Do i need more kuralias for the 125 if there will be no corals?

Well thats all i can think of for know.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I will post pics and messages to show my progress.

[MissT]

first thing that came to my mind while reading the post is not to skimp on the skimmer. having 225 gallons on a cheap skimmer is asking for disaster, especially coupled with the fact that most fish only tanks involve fish that produce a lot of waste...

[stoneroller]

Sounds like a complicated setup that could or will lead to lots of water on the floor; I put my money on WILL. Also, if something goes bad in one tank you could lose all the tanks. Perhaps others have brilliant solutions involving drills and bulkheads connecting the two tanks.

[D_and_A_Custom]

So what would you use?


first thing that came to my mind while reading the post is not to skimp on the skimmer. having 225 gallons on a cheap skimmer is asking for disaster, especially coupled with the fact that most fish only tanks involve fish that produce a lot of waste...

[MissT]

EuroReef RS250 would be a good bet for "bang for buck"

[MissT]

I will say that I agree with Stoneroller... that project sounds like it could be fun, but a disaster waiting to happen

[ErikH]

Each setup should be independent, especially the reef.
Your skimmer for your reef and your fish only should be ASM, Euroreef or similar.
Scrap the lighting system you have for the reef and go with either some Metal Halides supplemented with T5s (54 watt) with good reflectors for all of them. You could do all T5 or all MH, but the combo would be great.
I am a fan of deep sand beds for NNR and tons of rock to aid in the biological filtration, so I personally , would get another 150-200 lbs of rock. Alot of people may disagree, but I only run my skimmer at night, and it takes a week to get 1/4 cup.
The reef should be stocked, but lightly. You want it to self sustain without support from equipment as much as possible so you are less reliant on them to keep a disaster from occuring. (more rock more sand)

[RayAllen]

ScorpiNo is correct, You water parameters on a FOWLR with not be compatible with a reef. People keep FOWLRs to have fish that normally grow a little larger and tend to eat meaty foods which if not kept in check can leed to many things. A reef is a very delicate system to keep on its own let alone connecting to a FOWLR. Ive seen a few times while being in the hobby attempts at this but it usually ends in the systems being seperated. You also must take into consideration parasites being passed from one system to another, look at a Petsmart or Petco and you will understand what im getting at. If one tank gets sick the other will also. To sum it all up its in your best interest to give them each their seperate filtration. With freshwater you could get away with it, but in Saltwater its just a bad idea.

[RayAllen]

You may want to ask for this to be posted in the General Section so that it gets more response.

[tony]

You may want to ask for this to be posted in the General Section so that it gets more response.


done

[D_and_A_Custom]

Thanks im new to all this.I thought because the sump is so big it would handle it.But it sounds like im wrong.So ill rethink this.

[MissT]

It's not so much about the sump being large enough to handle the water volume, but more about whether or not the system will be successful with so many different things needing to be monitored. All things considered, it would be a lot more successful to have the tanks be set up individually

[D_and_A_Custom]

Ok well im tring to figure this out.If i put the sump on the 100 by itself will the fx5 and the aquaclear 110 be enough to keep the fish only or do i need a second sump?

Also there is a Coralife Calcium reactor for sale in austin.I am going to dallas next week.Should i make plans to get it.

[MissT]

There's not really an efficient HOB skimmer available for that tank size, so I'd consider getting a sump for the fish only for that particular reason (among many other advantages)... As big of an asset as a skimmer is on a reef tank, IMO it's a must on a FOWLR tank.

hth

[Kristy]

Also there is a Coralife Calcium reactor for sale in austin.I am going to dallas next week.Should i make plans to get it.

That really depends on what kind of corals you are planning to keep. If you are going to do SPS, that will begin to be a pain, always supplementing calcium, etc. and you will eventually want to add the calcium reactor. Most people find this is an item that they can wait on a little while, and not one they buy in the beginning of their reef-keeping.

[D_and_A_Custom]

Well im not in a hurry to spend extra money.But for $70 bucks i figured it wouldnt hurt.

[crossxfire2]

Here is what I think

It would technically be best to separate them. Everybody is correct, the FOWLER will produce a ton of waste, and it will end up in the reef. Now, I would not go skimmerless on either one of them. Unfortunatly, that will cost you lots of extra money. That would be the only reason to connect both of the tanks. But in the end, you could loose more moneys worth of coral and fish if something went wrong, rather than buying the extra skimmer. If you buy 2 REALLY great skimmers, (euroreef or deltec, don't do anything else, really) then you wont have to ever buy another one again for the rest of your life! That is definatly a plus.
I have a 75 gallon reef, and I utilize the berlin method. I don't have any filters, except for a protein skimmer. This is a euroreef, and it sits in a sump. My sump is just another aquarium, with no baffles, or sections. The only other thing that really keeps the water good is the live rock. I am eventually going to add macro algae, though.
If you had a really great skimmer on both of the tanks, I personally would say that you don't really have to have any hang on back filter.
Now this is really oppinionated, but I would use the huge sump on the reef. It is a reef, and is more delicate than the FOWLER.
If you can't afford the extra equipment that you might need if you split the two, than you could go ahead and start one tank, or the other.
It is still really your choice though.
The ONLY reason I say that it might not be a good idea to connect them is because of the waste that the fowler will produce. HTH

[Ping]

I successfully ran a 100g FO tank w no live rock and no protein skimmer several years ago. The tank had 1 inch of sand, 2 Emperor 400 filters and a NO 50/50 fluorescent bulb. It contained Texas Holey Rock and plastic plants. I had no algae problems and no cleanup crew.

My First upgrade was a sump with bio balls. I noticed no difference in the health or longevity of the fish.

I ran this tank the way I ran my Cichlid tanks, weekly non R/O water changes. I did age the water and use a dechlorinator.

This hobby did not get expensive and complicated until I decided to keep corals.

[D_and_A_Custom]

Ok well im getting everything together.

I know have in my dinning room:
125 g with 300 p of rock cycling and all the critters.
100 g i just got with a pc light and free 20 g(thanks again guys)
I picked up another package deal with 60" pc and 72" with 2 MH and 2 VHO's
I have a tank being build for the mantis shrimp 36x20x18 in acrilic (that is about 55g)


Nows here what i plan to do.ill use the 20g as my sump for the 125g fish only so i can get a good protein skimmer.Ill leave the fx5 on it as well.Ill use the big sump and refuge on the 100g reef.Im going to build a stand for both tanks to sit next to each other,since the 5' tank is going to be my reef ill put the majority of the 6' fixture with the MH over it and let the last 12" hang over the 6' tank then ill put both pc 5' fixtures to go the rest of the way across the 6' tank.

So what do you guys think so far?

[aquasport24]

20g. for sump? i think that is too small or you have a tight space? i would put in a largest sump i can fit under there. it would give you a bigger volume of water(better filtration) and just in case you have a back siphon, you will have space for the back siphon water or else you will have flood in the house.

[D_and_A_Custom]

You might be right i didnt want it too big because i was only going to use it to skim and i tought i would put a filter sock on the drain.But i sure didnt think about it being big enough to handle power outs.what g would you suggest and ill use the 20g for my topoff

[aquasport24]

you have to take a measurement under your stand and see how much room do you have. and what other equipment that you want to go under,but outside the sump,(like external return pump, skimmer that use external pump, calcium reactor, space for ATO, etc,,,)then you know how big your sump will be..

[D_and_A_Custom]

i am going to make the stand and so far i have a 4' sump for my reef and a 3' tank for my mantis shrimp.So i have 4' feet left.so how ever big it needs to be i can do.

[D_and_A_Custom]

I put the lights ive picked up on the 125 thats holding everything for know.I liked the 72" MH fixture better than both of the 60" PC fixtures on the tank together.The 72" gave me much better colors and was brighter than both PC together.So know im thinking ill put the 72" fixture with MH on the 125 and one of the PCs on the 100g and pick up a couple of MH retrokits.Does anyone have the any experience with these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/250-Watt-Metal-Halide-Aquarium-Light-w-Choice-of-Bulb_W0QQitemZ180224411427QQihZ008QQcategoryZ46314 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[D_and_A_Custom]

Need you guys to feedback Please.Im new and i dont want to make a mistake.

Tkanks in advance.

[stoneroller]

No experience with those. But... you get what you pay for.

[Kristy]

Description http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifItem Specifics - Item ConditionCondition: Used

http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifAquarium Supply Type : Lighting

Theme : BEWARE OF DOG


http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
What do you think the beware of dog means? :)
-Mike

You might want to check out this website. Really good deals. We have a fixture from here that we are very happy with.
http://search.stores.ebay.com/Great-Lights-4-Less__AQUARIUM-LIGHTS_W0QQfcdZ2QQfclZ3QQfromZR10QQfrppZ30QQfsooZ1 QQfsopZ1QQfsubZ10058118QQsaselZ185670647QQsofpZ0
-Kristy

[D_and_A_Custom]

1.Do you think if i get 2 MH it will be enough for the 100 g?I only need them for color and because i want clams.

2.I was going to do 250w but dont know weather to get 10k,14k or 20k?

Thanks kristy for the link these prices are fair now i just need to know what to order.

[Beverly]

When I first started out, I ordered from that exact site on ebay you were looking at. I ordered (2) 250 watt. I got (2) 400 watt and one of the bulbs were broken on top of that.
I emailed him and told him of the mistake and the broken bulb. He wanted me to pay to ship everything back. Shipping was going to be crazy because the 400 ballast weighed more than my 9 year old!! I disputed through ebay with no luck. I refused to pay to fix his mistake and just traded with someone here on masst. My last ebay experience.
I now have the coralvue 250 12K. I paid alot more than I was looking to spend, but well worth the money. Just be careful with him. He did not package the items very well using personal 3X5 photographs???

Definately go with who Kristy suggested if your going the ebay route.

[Kristy]

Yes, the (2) 250w MHs would be sufficient light over the 100g.

Re: the bulb 10k vs. 14k vs. 20k... that decision has to do with what you are trying to bring out in the corals. One is better for color another for growth is my understanding. You might be able to scroll through the search function to read old discussions about this...

Where are our MH lighting guys to clarify this point? I am in way over my level of understanding on these finer points.

[ErikH]

You have two options here, SE and DE. SingleEnded bulbs tend to cover a larger area, but there is less PAR with an SE bulb. A DE bulb, aka HQI, is double ended, and the output of PAR is much greater than that of an SE bulb. The HQI bulbs last much longer in comparison to SE, but the coverage is over a smaller area. On a 5' tank, you could try 2x250s HQI, or if that proves to not be enough, you could add a third. The bulbs are rated using K for Kelvin. Kelvin essentially is the measure of how blue the bulbs are. A 6,500k which is on the lower end of this spectrum is very yellow. A 6500k bulb will provide alot of growth, but the corals will not be as colorful. A 20k bulb however is great for coloration, not so great for growth, but depending on the setup, results will vary here. A very "ice white" crisp white color will come from a 10k bulb. Alot of people like the 12 and 14k bulbs, which is in the middle.

Some of the pros will tend to set a tank up and use the 6500k until the tank fills out, then swap the bulbs to 20k increase the coloration.

Reflectors are a big thing as well. Look for reflectors made by LumenBright, or Lumenarcs, as they are "the best".

Your big focus right now is to make sure you have in this order:
1.) Sand and rock
2.) A GREAT skimmer
3.) Lighting

The first two are to keep your water quality in check, which will be a very big battle unless you take it very slow and make sure to let your tank cycle. Once the tank has cycled, these items will help keep your water scrubbed clean as you add your fish. Weekly water changes are HIGHLY recommended until you get a "feel" for your reef and how it all comes together. If you use a salt like Reef Crystals, you should not have to dose ANY chemicals. The important thing is to maintain your levels, and replenish the chemicals that your corals and other life have removed from your water. The best way to do so, for now, will be water changes. Unless you are keeping a substantial reef, don't worry about dosing anything, especially if you do not have test kits to measure what you are dosing.

The lighting is going to be the other main thing. You should not skimp here, at all. Just as water quality keeps your fish and corals alive, your corals will need light to thrive. The lights will heat up your water inevitably, so keep an eye on your temp until you get it all figured out.

HTH, my fingers hurt. I know some others will chime in! :)

[D_and_A_Custom]

thanks scorpino for that info.Now i can make a better decission.

[SABOB]

Great info ScorpiNO,glad to see you are still around giving valuable advice.

[D_and_A_Custom]

I really needed the info he gave to help me.

Sorry to hear about college.

[D_and_A_Custom]

Well both tanks are up and on the new stand.now i will start making skin for the stand.

[ErikH]

Make sure you leave plenty of room for your sump. If possible make a side door for easier access to the sides, just in case.

[D_and_A_Custom]

I made the stand 11 feet long.I have plenty of room for whatever i might need.


Make sure you leave plenty of room for your sump. If possible make a side door for easier access to the sides, just in case.

[D_and_A_Custom]

Well ive been alittle busy.But i have both tanks up on the 4x6 frame.I desided to use the 125g for reef,the 100g for fish only and a 34 custom tank for the mantis.

Now as far as filtration i have a 59 g sump for the reef with a uv and a coralife 125 skimmer for now.I have a 55 g sump for the fish only with a redsea 150 skimmer for now.

As far as lighting i have 2 250 w mh with 2 vhos on the 125.I have 2 power compact lights on the fist only but i am working on getting 2 250 mh and selling one of the pc's.then i will put all atinic lights in the other pc.

I am going to post pics on my web sight as i go forward so check me out.

WWW.dacc.webs.com

[aquasport24]

Hi Damien, do you plan to add more legs to stand? It does not look very sturdy to me. The water alone weighs like 2200lbs, and that not include LR and LS. Maybe you should add 4 more after you have the sumps in place, but that is up to you. And where would you plan to add 2 more 250s to? the reef or the FOWLR?

[D_and_A_Custom]

I have done my homework a 4x6 beam can handle 8000 pounds. so i wouldnt need any legs.I am adding the Mh to the fish only so that the two tanks lighting looks more alike.

[D_and_A_Custom]

Well ive been slowly building and adjusting things.Now the original sump was too compicated.So to simplify things i put baffles in 2 40g breeders one for eack tank.I now have one plumbed out and am waiting for the other sump to be ready to plumb it out.I now have about 400 pound of rock.

Ill put updated pics as soon as i plumb the second tank.

[D_and_A_Custom]

I have both tanks plummed.I have put my lights up on a temperary truss.

On the 125g reef tank I have a 40 breeder with 4 small sections of live rock.So the water forced to go though each secton.I have a 20g for the refug.I have the fluval fx5 as well(might move to other tank when sump cycles).I have rebuild an old preditor skimmer with a becket injector on the side instead if though the middle like it was originally.

On the 100g fish only i have a 40 breeder with 2 baffles for live rock and a 18x12 section for refug.I also have a aquaclear 110 for large waist.I am using a coralife 125 for the skimmer.

updated pics:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn147/D_and_A_Custom/Tanksetup001-1.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn147/D_and_A_Custom/Tanksetup002.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn147/D_and_A_Custom/Tanksetup003.jpg