lighting, mh=nano cube

[lax]

I think that I've gone mad. I want to put mh over my nano cube. For refrence its about a cubic foot. I was wanting to put some acro in the top of the tank and still be able to do zoos and some shrooms. The questions I have is, what size? Do I do a 70 hqi, 150 hqi or 175. I think that the 70 would be not enough, the 175 to much but... i think the 150 might be better since it should have a better par than the 175, right? since it is hqi? I'm worried about bleaching, of zoos, and heat issues.

I don't know help, suggestions

[Instar]

I saw a 400w XM MH over an 18 gallon not long ago.
PC's in the right combo, unshielded do work for SPS, in case you're interested.

[Tim Marvin]

I have 2/96watt quad PC's over my cube and they are getting great growth and color for the acropora. othing between the light and water, and they are a few inches above the water. 96w quad smartlamps.

[lax]

Tim - the quad pc is to big for the tank, won't fit, its like 5" to wide. The cube has that custom flip canopy top. If I was going to take it off, I might as well do mh.

Instar - the 18 is 20" tall and mine is 12" that's 3/2 the height. If I was going to do a 400w i would have to have it like 3' above the tank b/c of heat, it would also bleach all of the softies

basic dimensions are adbout 12x12x12, b/c of the 3 stage filtration built in the back taking up space.

I was thinking that pc light wouldn't be enough intensity for high light acro. The frag that I am going to get is Jim's rare bottlebrush that I have the opportunity to buy from the 'scavenger hunt' that he put up in the January Meeting Announcement. I think that pc light would brown out the acro or at least not be able to keep the white/cream base color, and might eventually kill it. That's why I think mh lighting is needed.

These are good suggestions, and have already thought about them. Looking for some other insight to help make my decision.

[Instar]

I didn't see anything bleached in that 18 with the 400 MH. I'm not sure I would do that, but, its been done. 8 inches of depth isn't enough to worry about all by itself. If the water is not clear, thats a big factor. I use pc's and have acros on the bottom and under the annoying center brace. Even a bottle brush. You may loose the cream for a while under a PC, but, that can also happen under a MH b/c you will be changing the conditions and lighting. That 400 had a big fan ventilating the hood and was only about 12 inches from the water. Most people don't make out too well with that as acclimation to the light takes some time. One other comment in regard to frags from Jim - all the ones I have gotten from him have continued with GREAT colors under my pc's and do very well. But, the total spectrum range is responsible for such things. Just a small MH by itself may end up less effective than a set of pc's b/c there is only one color temp from that. How small is this tank if a quad won't even fit on it? Quads and the new nano pc's can get pretty small.

[lax]

The quad is 18" wide and my nano cube is only like 13". I have 24w 50/50 that came with the tank, but I have a 32w csl smartlite 50/50 coming in the mail to add unfer there too. Putting both of these under the custom plastic canopy is all that will fit. The nano cube has a weird shape, it kinda has a little bow front.

http://www.jbjlighting.com/sys_nanocube.html

So should I just go with the 24w+32w= 56w = 4.66 w/gal., try and rig some sort of canopy that funnels from 18" to 13" for the quad, or try and do mh and also try to incorporate the 24w and 32w pc in there some how too, or go some other direction? I'm all confused now again on what to do.

[Instar]

Well, depends on the effect you like. There are quads that are very tiny. Lots smaller than 18 inches. But, if you put 2 50/50 together, then you make your own. If you like the effects of MH, go for it. Make an open top "hood" to let the heat out, keep it back off a ways and use a fan over the top of the water to keep things cool. Check out Jims on Saturday. If it was me, and I did the halide, I would definitely also have and use the pc's for dusk/dawn and to give it some actinic, so those you have coming will be suppliments, not money wasted. Since you have 50/50's coming, that covers the 10K and in that case I would use a 20K halide. If you have seen Jims, you know what I'm talking about. We just said that pc's work out ok, not that this is always the most asthetically pleasing to everyone or for every effect or color. Personally I like the shadows and reflections the halide brings to the tank and there are just some slices of the blues that just don't work out well with the 10K spectrum in the pc's. But then I look at my corals under the pc's and think, this is also cool. That why we always need more than one tank. :D

[Instar]

And BTW, I don't think you've gone mad. I have a little hex that is about 12 inches deep or so and about 20 or so inches across and I want to hang a MH over it with pc's around the edge. Some on here will say we are both mad.

[lax]

I do too. I like all that the mh brings with the reflections and shadows. I think that I will probably do the mh with pc supplement. My next question is, I guess, what color 10kK or 20kK; b/c unless you piece a hqi pendant together, which is way more expensive, the bulbs that they usually come with are German not AB, XM... I don't really know what color variation a German bulb looks like, or even seen a picture of. They also make a Iwasaki 50kK, do you know or heard anything about that? I think that I read that its kinda white, kinda blue, but cant really remember. I guess this would be a good question to ask this weekend when everyone is there.

[lax]

O and about the tank thing, I already have 4 other big freshwater central american cichlid tanks all about the house. I don't think that I have the space or the money for another salt tank, being a poor college student and all.

[Tim Marvin]

Here are some acro frags in the cube under PC's

[Brett Wilson]

I have a 150W Iwasaki 50KK. it is not an HQI though, it is a single ended metal halide bulb. I like it :) I have it running on my 20g nano if you want to see it sometime.

[lax]

Tim - you have a 30 cube with 2x96 quads = 6.4 w/gal, that's almost 2 most w/gal than me with the 32w retro coming in the mail, maybe=csl=gone

Whoa there Turbo - that'd be great if i could check it out, does it look kinda blue, but more white?

I think that I have ultimately made the decision that I am going to do 150 de. The next task is to figure out what to get, system and which one, or piece it together, and what color bulb a 10k or 13k. Also, i'm planning on doin an e-ballast. With doin mh I will definately get a better spectrum range and par than pc, and I dont need pc with it either unless I want the sunrise/set effect. There is enough blue and purple spectrum in there that i dont need actinic supplement; and there will also be more red there too, i'm sure that pc wont have. And it is debated that the green spectrum actually helps photosynthesis.

whateva, feel free to come back and tell me that i'm wrong, we can discuss this better tomorrow when we are at the meeting.

[Tim Marvin]

Sunlight supply reflector, 250w DE/HQI, xm bulb, and IceCap mh250 ballast.

[lax]

I took your idea and ran with it and checked around for prices on all of the parts, and found that it would cost the same, doing a 150 or 250. It would also be the price as getting a system, but I get what I want instead of crap. And then I saw 'El Box' and was like I can build that with aluminum stock and do a better job at it and save money. I guess that I just needed someone else to convince me to piece it together. Thanks

Nathan

[matt]

Why don't you get one of those 175W bell pendants? The ones that the bulb mounts vertically in, I mean. They're usually available pretty cheap; lots of people don't like them for bigger tanks because the light spread is lousy, and you get less light out of the same bulb. I think they come in medium base bulbs, too, like 70 or 150W. In your case, you don't want the big light spread, and you'll still get plenty of light out of a single 175W. I bet you can find one used for $100 or so.

[lax]

b/c the par and ppfd on the 150 de is like twice as much as the 175 and de 10k bulbs cover more of the spectrum range than mogule. you get what you pay for and i'd kick myself if i knew that i could have gotten somethin better. and yep this semester i will be recovering money spent on aquaria, but thats ok with me.