GFCI tripped and lost a lot of water

[Markster]

I was very surprised last evening with one of the surge protectors caused my dedicated GFCI outlet to trip. That side has a my return pumps, sump light, titanium probe, heaters, skimmer pump and fan. I unplugged all of them and reset the GFCI. Began plugging in the items and left the sump light out. It tripped again and I unplugged the probe as I could feel the current in the wire. I was even getting a slow current shock when I touched the sump, top of skimmer and other wires. Of all the years, I have never felt current such as this. I left the sump light and probe out and the tank ran fine afterwards and all night. I even noticed the big clock that has the temp line in my return box had current that I could feel when I touched it. I did not use the grounding outlet on the probe and noticed it corroded and thought it might have touched the L bracket I am using to hold the surge protectors in the stand above the sump. I would like to reinstall the probe but thinking of using another outlet that it is not on the GFCI so I do not loose my return pumps since that is why I lost so much water. I do have the sump in a tray and marked it where I need the water line so if I lose power, the tray catches all the water. Thoughts?

[Jasonb]

I read it twice and this is my thought

Sounds like there is a piece of equipment (sump light? Since you left it out)that is leaking current. If that is the case plugging these items into a regular duplex will only mask the issue.
The reason your feeling it on the ground probe is because its taking the current to ground as designed.

Correct me if im missing something, but everything was fine until you plugged in the sump light? What type of light is it? 2 prong or 3 prong plug end?

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[Markster]

the sump light is a marine land led strip that is very small and was really for light when doing maintenance in the sump. It is a two prong small box. I know the plug is really corroded and I have to play with it to work. I still had the small current shock after removing it and the probe. I am not sure if the current was just left in the water until released. I did not have any current this morning and keep checking my camera in the living room to see the tank is okay (Kessils and water movement).

I am not going to use the sump light and will reinstall the probe.

Thanks

[Markster]

the sump light is a marine land led strip that is very small and was really for light when doing maintenance in the sump. It is a two prong small box. I know the plug is really corroded and I have to play with it to work. I still had the small current shock after removing it and the probe. I am not sure if the current was just left in the water until released. I did not have any current this morning and keep checking my camera in the living room to see the tank is okay (Kessils and water movement).

I am not going to use the sump light and will reinstall the probe.

Thanks

[Mike]

Likely one of the pumps, either skimmer or return (if not external) is leaking current. Do you have any other pumps in there, to reactors, UV, that could be leaking? Seems like a bad leak if it is tripping your GFI. Hoping Alton sees this and jumps in, as he is good with this type of thing.

[leliataylor]

It sounds like your GFCI did exactly what is designed to do, cut the power when then is a sudden power drain associated with electricity coming in contact with water. I would not plug any aquarium into a outlet that does not have a GFCI on it. I know of more than one person that has a electrical fire or has been injured when water came in contact with electricity associated with a tank.

As for loosing a lot of water when you have a power failure, is your sump too small to handle the water volume entering the sump when the overflow drains? If so you might want to redesign your sump system or add another tank inline with your sump to accommodate the excess water draining out of the tank.

[Jasonb]

You can use a multimeter and plug in 1 device at a time until you find the current leak.

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[Markster]

Okay, so I plug in one at a time into the surge protector and where do I use the multimeter?

[Jasonb]

Okay, so I plug in one at a time into the surge protector and where do I use the multimeter?
Put one lead tip in the water and the other lead to ground, if you have voltage leak your meter should read it.

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[Dkray944]

Definitely pick up on of these if you're experiencing back flow when your return cuts off. It's a lot better then water on the floor.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/georg-fischer-wye-check-valve.html

[alton]

Hopefully we got to the root of the problem yesterday, we are thinking it may have been a heater? Maybe at the next LMAR Jason and I can do a demonstration of stray current in your tanks and the difference between stray voltage and current. Grounding probes, there benefits and the problems they can cause.

[Jasonb]

Hopefully we got to the root of the problem yesterday, we are thinking it may have been a heater? Maybe at the next LMAR Jason and I can do a demonstration of stray current in your tanks and the difference between stray voltage and current. Grounding probes, there benefits and the problems they can cause.
I like it.

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[leliataylor]

I would personally love to hear a presentation by Alton and Jason on stray current vs. voltage and how to troubleshoot it and prevent it. It is always nice to hear it from the experts.

[klwheat]

Not on the original topic (electrical in water) but an aside. If you're losing that much water when the return shuts down or power outage, you should probably think about redoing some plumbing. The sump should be able to hold whatever will overflow with pumps off. I'd be happy to help with this if you need.

[mkengr45]

Not on the original topic (electrical in water) but an aside. If you're losing that much water when the return shuts down or power outage, you should probably think about redoing some plumbing. The sump should be able to hold whatever will overflow with pumps off. I'd be happy to help with this if you need.

Agreed! Need to place one of your return nozzles closer to the surface so when you lose power and start to siphon back to the sump the siphon gets broken. I have dual overflows and 4 return nozzles....one nozzle is about half an inch below the water and whenever I lose power or do maintenance that shallow nozzle sucks in air and breaks the siphon so I don't get much water back in the sump.

Or use check-valves...but then that cost you some flow.

[klwheat]

Agreed! Need to place one of your return nozzles closer to the surface so when you lose power and start to siphon back to the sump the siphon gets broken. I have dual overflows and 4 return nozzles....one nozzle is about half an inch below the water and whenever I lose power or do maintenance that shallow nozzle sucks in air and breaks the siphon so I don't get much water back in the sump.

Or use check-valves...but then that cost you some flow.

Absolutely, break the siphon. One of my return nozzles is actually not even completely submerged (although close). My backflow is very minimal.
Also, remember check valves are just another piece of equipment. They can and do fail.



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[leliataylor]

Some of my returns are high enough up to break the siphon, although the returns I built myself have a small hole drilled in them above the water line. I then place a airline connector that has a plastic screw in the middle to adjust the airflow and screw them down tight enough water does not flow out of them , but air will enter them and break the siphon. Have a bunch of them laying around from my old maxi-jet powerheads and they work very well.