Nitrate dosing...aka aquatic science-ish experiment

[klwheat]

Ok, some quick background to start.
My 90 gallon reef has been going strong for a couple of years. The majority of my corals have grown like crazy, and I love the tank. (In fact, planning a big upgrade soon).
However, I have a few corals that just haven't seemed happy. A couple of sps that are showing not great color, poor PE, and my elegance has just never been happy.
Well, I like to read...a lot. So, I've been doing a bunch of research. I hadn't really heard of the term ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) before, but it seems my tank fits that definition. I was concerned that my test kits may have gotten old, because these corals weren't happy, but my parameters are always exactly where I was trying to keep them. Nitrates 0, phos 0, calcium 400-450, alk 7.5-8, mag 1300-1400.
I've occasionally had small algae issues, put some gfo in a reactor, and ended up with cyano instead until I pulled it out. Also, with gfo (always less than 1/2 the recommended amount) my corals did NOT look happy.
So, the more I read (some articles by very reputable sources) the more I discover that perhaps my nitrates are, in fact, too low. I didn't know that was possible, I always thought 0 was the goal.
So, I decided to try to raise my nitrates from 0 to 2-5ppm. I increased my feedings significantly as well as increasing my dosing of amino acids, phyto and coral food (reef roids and reef chili are the ones I've used).
I haven't had any luck increasing my nitrates...but my phos managed to go from 0-0.02 up to 0.16. Enter cyano 
Turns out, the bacteria in my system are excellent at processing nitrate, but significantly less efficient at getting rid of phos (yes, I understand why now...lol).
So...how do I increase my nitrates some without increasing phos at the same time.
Enter nitrate dosing (something I NEVER thought I'd do).
Well, here's how my evening went.
Test nitrates - 0 (no surprise)
Dissolve 2tbsp potassium nitrate in 2 cups of water.
Add 10ml nitrate solution.
Recheck nitrate after 1 hour -0 (dang, was hoping for something!)
Add 10ml nitrate solution
Recheck after another hour - still 0
(Seriously?!)
Add 20ml nitrate solution
Recheck after 1 hour - 1ppm!
Finally! I managed to have detectable nitrate in my tank.
So, what does this mean...well, anecdotally, a couple of my sps have more PE than they've had in weeks or longer.
Is this actually attributable to the increased nitrate? Not sure yet. However, the experiment will continue.
I'll keep everyone informed with my testing and results!
Have a great night all!


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[klwheat]

Ok, tested again this morning...0.75ppm. So, just dosed another 15ml. Will recheck in a while.


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[FarmerTy]

Great experimental method klwheat!

Just wanted to share my experience on dosing as I see it relevant.

You're 100% correct on nitrate level, 0 ppm is what we don't want. 5-10 ppm is what I strive for for best coloration of my SPS at least.

I've dosed potassium nitrate (Spectracide Stump Remover) myself for 6 months while running my tank fallow. I will say it was laborious, dosing every two days and testing, but I was able to maintain my nitrate levels at @5ppm. My corals in my opinion kept their color in the fishes' absence.

When I put the fish back in though, the coral colors took a significant jump and everything looked 10x better, even though the nitrate level was about the same at 5 ppm, this time without dosing.

My take back from this is, despite similar concentrations of nitrate in the tank dosing or not dosing, the corals looked better with the fish maintaining the nitrate level (via feeding and pooping) then me artificially dosing nitrates. I will say that without dosing at all and no fish, my corals did look really faded so the dosing at least made it look better than that. But the fish itself made them look EVEN better, which makes sense as they are a constant source of fertilizer for the corals as well as supplying direct ammonia/ammonium that corals do uptake in small quantities.

So what's my point? My point is get some more fish. Haha. Okay, that's not really just it. Get more fish, feed more, and start introducing GFO VERY SLOWLY to mitigate the increase in phosphate. I know your prior experience with GFO probably scared you away but it really isn't that harsh if you slowly bring it on. And I would recommend highly not to use the high capacity stuff... Even at low usage, it caused STN on my acros because it just stripped the water too fast.

[klwheat]

Hmm...thanks for the info FarmerTy. I may try that out when we upgrade and I have room for a gfo reactor. Hopefully January!


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[klwheat]

Duplicate

[FarmerTy]

Hmm...thanks for the info FarmerTy. I may try that out when we upgrade and I have room for a gfo reactor. Hopefully January!


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No problem sir. The dosing definitely will help your corals health now though.

[klwheat]

Ok, just checked again. 0.75ppm still. Next dose coming up.


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[Justin]

I like this thread and the insights that it offers. Keep it up Larry!

[klwheat]

Thanks Justin.
Ok, just tested again about 3 hours after I added 20mL of nitrate solutions.
Looks like I'm between 1 and 2 ppm now. I'll leave it there for the night and check in the am again.


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[FarmerTy]

If its helpful, I dissolved 10 grams of potassium nitrate to 1 liter of RO/DI water to make a solution containing 6140 ppm of nitrate. I dosed half of that in my tank every 2 days to keep it at 5 ppm of nitrates in the tank.

[FarmerTy]

I should mention my total water volume is about 250 gallons to aid with calculations.

[klwheat]

Gotcha. Thanks FarmerTy. I used a recipe found on another forum: 2tbs in 2 cups. Dosing 10-20ml at a time now. We'll see how it goes.
Haven't had a chance to check this am, but will when I get home


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[klwheat]

OK, update time. So, I haven't added any potassium nitrate since 8 December. My nitrate levels are holding steady between 1 and 2 (not quite either color) with the Red Sea kit. Interestingly (and opposite what I expected), my phosphate has increased from 0.03 to 0.30 over the last 9 days. Other parameters are stable. Salinity 35ppt, alk 7.5, calcium 450, mag 1350. I have not increased feedings or anything else that I can think would account for this. Perhaps I'll do a water change and check again in a day or 2. For now, watching and testing.

[klwheat]

actually...now that I think of it again, I did have a change in my tank. My flow in the 90 is from the return pump, an MP40 and an MP10. However, a few days ago, my MP10 decided to quit working. Perhaps this decrease in flow has caused an issue?

[Justin]

interesting. I haven't tested in two days on my tank. I'll have to do a reading. No changes in color but it's still too early I think.

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[Awais98]

OK, update time. So, I haven't added any potassium nitrate since 8 December. My nitrate levels are holding steady between 1 and 2 (not quite either color) with the Red Sea kit. Interestingly (and opposite what I expected), my phosphate has increased from 0.03 to 0.30 over the last 9 days. Other parameters are stable. Salinity 35ppt, alk 7.5, calcium 450, mag 1350. I have not increased feedings or anything else that I can think would account for this. Perhaps I'll do a water change and check again in a day or 2. For now, watching and testing.

Any updates?


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[klwheat]

Tested this weekend. Nitrates 4, phos 0.17, mag 1350, alk 8.4, Ca 450. Did a water change after the testing. Not sure exactly what's going on, but stopped dosing vibrant as I've had a pretty obnoxious cyano outbreak since I started dosing it. My chaeto has almost completely died off, but the hair algae hasn't and the cyano has started.
That said, my corals are all handling it fine and one mille looks better than it's looked in quite some time.


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[klwheat]

Okay, another update. Nitrates 2, phos 0.03, mag 1350, ca 450, alk 8.74.
Have continued to hold off dosing vibrant.
Cyano still persists, chaeto doesn't seem to be recovering well :(

[Awais98]

Okay, another update. Nitrates 2, phos 0.03, mag 1350, ca 450, alk 8.74.
Have continued to hold off dosing vibrant.
Cyano still persists, chaeto doesn't seem to be recovering well :(

How did you bring the phos down from 0.17 to 0.03 that quick?


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[klwheat]

I didn't really do much. Large (30 gallon or so) water change after the test last week. Reduced feedings a small amount. Reduced coral feeding quite a bit. That's about it. Maybe algae growth sucking it up?
My chaeto is pretty much gone, so if anyone has any they'd like to get rid of, I'd love to start some again. It was growing so well before that I was pulling a gallon bag out every 2 weeks!


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[Awais98]

I didn't really do much. Large (30 gallon or so) water change after the test last week. Reduced feedings a small amount. Reduced coral feeding quite a bit. That's about it. Maybe algae growth sucking it up?
My chaeto is pretty much gone, so if anyone has any they'd like to get rid of, I'd love to start some again. It was growing so well before that I was pulling a gallon bag out every 2 weeks!


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It's likely a combination of it all.

Chaeto is dying thanks to Vibrant.
What I've heard in the vibrant forums is it takes few weeks before cyano is cleared.



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[klwheat]

I was dosing vibrant twice a week for 6 weeks or more (don't remember exactly when I started it). Didn't do squat for the algae in the tank (there wasn't much to start) but I now have cyano that wasn't there before the vibrant, and my chaeto is toast


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[Awais98]

I was dosing vibrant twice a week for 6 weeks or more (don't remember exactly when I started it). Didn't do squat for the algae in the tank (there wasn't much to start) but I now have cyano that wasn't there before the vibrant, and my chaeto is toast


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I have(had) a small hospital tank that I am running with few corals from th past..... I put vibrant in there..... for cyano..... cyano did go away but I think I lost all the LPS frags I had there due to vibrant........I'm not sure though. As same time I added small amount of gfo and lo!! I have more green algae than I ever had.... maybe iron from the gfo made it come in.....



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[klwheat]

Okay, weekly update.

Tank is looking good. Good PE from nearly everything (except my elegance..but it hasn't been happy for a long time).
Nitrates 4, Phos 0.07, Ca 450, Mag 1350, Alk 8.9.
My dosing seems spot on, and I'm pretty happy with everything.
The cyano is starting to recede as well.
Now, I just wish I had a nitrate probe for my apex so I could save myself some testing! LOL
(actually, I wish I had probes for all parameters!)

[klwheat]

I have(had) a small hospital tank that I am running with few corals from th past..... I put vibrant in there..... for cyano..... cyano did go away but I think I lost all the LPS frags I had there due to vibrant........I'm not sure though. As same time I added small amount of gfo and lo!! I have more green algae than I ever had.... maybe iron from the gfo made it come in.....



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Oh wow! Sorry to hear about the LPS loss :(

[Justin]

I hear you. the testing everyday gets a little annoying. I'm sure once I find my daily consumption rate, I can dose it with a doser and test weekly

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[klwheat]

I haven't added any nitrate since I initially got it up to 2ppm. But then I was also dosing vibrant, my chaeto all died, and one of my vortechs was out for 2 weeks. So my nitrate and phos both got kinda wacky


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