Mysis Shrimp Propagation

[leliataylor]

I have decided to once again propagate mysis shrimp and over 4 years ago sustained a population for over 4 months. It just got to be too much working full time and raising seahorse fry. I ordered 500 shrimp from MBL Aquaculture and they arrived 2 weeks ago. Currently most of them are housed in a flow through system consisting of a 20 gallon nursery, a 30 gallon tank and a 29 gallon sump. I do need to upgrade the out sleeve on the nursery to 1000 micron mesh and build a tray to capture the larval shrimp that are flushed out of the tub. Some of the shrimp have already been moved to other tanks and nurseries as food for my seahorses and some are being fed for deworming my wild caught pair. Currently I have 3 species of macro in each system since 31% of their diet is plant material. They are being fed coral food, such as, live pods, Reef Roids, Cyclop-eeze, phyto and Reed Mariculture Shell Fish Diet. They go crazy and swarm on the shell fish diet. Feeding is being done 3 times a day. One of the things I have noticed is these mysis are far more active, use every inch of a 16-24" tall tank and are much faster than I have seen in the past. Today I moved some of the pregnant females into a smaller tub until they deliver, as a experiment. I know they are cannibalistic so I need to separate the young from the adults and keep them all well fed.

I would appreciate any experience, suggestions, etc. that any of you have had working with them.

On a side note, it took some of my young seahorses a couple of days to figure out how to catch them and when they did the seahorses looked like little fat sausages.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

Following... :)


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[FarmerTy]

Very cool! The cannibalism part is the real reason I never attempted. Seemed too much work to seperate them out. Keep us posted!

[leliataylor]

Well I have newborn mysis in two tubs that have not been eaten. A friend of mine found a dramatic reduction in cannibalism as long as they were well fed. I have actually cut back slightly on the amount I am feeding them, unlike when they first arrived, I am not seeing the larger shrimp grabbing hold of the smaller ones. I did change my plan slightly from using the flow to flush the newborns out of the tank into a tray, to setting up a box inside the tank and using a air stone to flush the newborns into the box. This is the same technique MBL Aquaculture and Scripps use in their propagation systems, except they use round containers and I modified a old HOB overflow for now. I should know more tomorrow morning as I have a number of gravid females. The next hurdle is having enough small tubs to house the newborns until they reach juvenile stage at about one week. I will say that some of the males have already grown larger than any mysis I have kept before.

Another side note to Shane, that 45 gallon Bean tank I bought from you had a large number of mysis in the overflow. The guy from MBL Aquaculture told me that is where they find the mysis they have added to their tanks and is also where I find a number of amphipods and copepods in my tanks.

[FarmerTy]

Well I have newborn mysis in two tubs that have not been eaten. A friend of mine found a dramatic reduction in cannibalism as long as they were well fed. I have actually cut back slightly on the amount I am feeding them, unlike when they first arrived, I am not seeing the larger shrimp grabbing hold of the smaller ones. I did change my plan slightly from using the flow to flush the newborns out of the tank into a tray, to setting up a box inside the tank and using a air stone to flush the newborns into the box. This is the same technique MBL Aquaculture and Scripps use in their propagation systems, except they use round containers and I modified a old HOB overflow for now. I should know more tomorrow morning as I have a number of gravid females. The next hurdle is having enough small tubs to house the newborns until they reach juvenile stage at about one week. I will say that some of the males have already grown larger than any mysis I have kept before.

Another side note to Shane, that 45 gallon Bean tank I bought from you had a large number of mysis in the overflow. The guy from MBL Aquaculture told me that is where they find the mysis they have added to their tanks and is also where I find a number of amphipods and copepods in my tanks.
Great observations! I appreciate you sharing! Any chance you could post pictures or videos of your setup. You've peaked my interest.

[leliataylor]

The box/airstone flushing system kinda worked, just not the way I expected. I managed to trap at least a dozen small juveniles, didn't try to count them. I don't know if the newborns made it into the box and were eaten or never got flushed into it. Today I changed out to mesh on the top of the box to keep the juveniles out and reduced the air flow. Tinker time. The females I placed in the tub did deliver and I do have newborn shrimp, however removing the females was rather time consuming. Great sport for someone that has nothing else to do. LOL

I will get some pictures posted once I figure out why I can no longer upload pictures.

I thought the mysis would decimate my pod population and they are scarce in the mysis tub. My filter sock and 30 gallon tank that are plumbed into the same system are full of them. I may change out the filter sock to a larger micron mesh or remove it completely. For now it is one change at a time.

[leliataylor]

Well I trapped a few newborns, but not the number I wanted. I could see a number of them in the tub and they were all staying in close proximity to, or in, the chaeto. The chaeto provides them a hiding place and they are attracted to the light over the chaeto. I moved the light to the other side of the tub and they emerged from the chaeto. Using a rigid airline attached to a flexible one I was able to siphon off a couple of dozen newborns within a few minutes, so I changed my trap. I covered the top of a 200 micron sieve with 730 micron mesh, tilted it slightly so the light shines through the bottom. I placed some chaeto on the top and am running a airstone around the chaeto with the current moving over the top of the sieve. I will know more tomorrow if this works better. Siphoning them off was not difficult or very time consuming once I figured out how to get them to congregate in one area, however it would be nice to have come to me.

[FarmerTy]

Thanks genius if it works out that they follow your light to the chaeto.

[FarmerTy]

Thanks genius if it works out that they follow your light to the chaeto.
Oops! Meant to write "That's genius". Dang you auto correct!

[leliataylor]

Not to worry, I have used the light technique for years on seahorse fry and brine shrimp. Turn off the lights, shine a bright light in one spot near the top and wait a few minutes. Chasing a couple of hundred tiny baby seahorses around a 65 gallon tank is not my idea of fun. All the copepods I have had tend to do the opposite heading for the darkest spot away from the light.

The new trap design is working much better, although I still have a few more mods I would like to try. Not only am I getting newborn mysis in the trap I am also getting copepods which will help feed the mysis. I do still see some of the newborns swimming with the adults in open water so I am going to build another trap to put on the opposite side of the tub. Now that the trap is working better I am going to build some shallow tray's out of acrylic. The plan is to drill a one inch hole in the bottom, cover it with 200 micron mesh, cover half the top with the same mesh and have a hinged lid on the other half of the top. The trays can then be placed in the tub, tank or sump. This will keep their water quality stable, make it easy to grade them by size and means I won't have to set up more tanks. I can cover the overflow on the 30 gallon tank, that is plumbed into the same sump as the nursery tube with 730 micron mesh, release the juveniles into that tank and once they reach adult size move them to the nursery tub.

[leliataylor]

Well I finally figured out how to post pictures without the MAAST attachments option. I will get some pictures of the system asap. Here are a couple of pictures of the newborn shrimp. They are very tiny and hard to see or catch at this stage. The easiest way to spot them is to look for the shadow they cast when lit from the top.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3372_zpse3k0oxht.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3372_zpse3k0oxht.jpg.html)

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3369_zpss9hbvxl6.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3369_zpss9hbvxl6.jpg.html)

[leliataylor]

This is a photo of the top of the adult tub. The black cable ties can be moved around to direct the airflow over the sieve. They are not currently adjusted the way I want them, however is does show how the system works.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3375_zpslcobgecr.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3375_zpslcobgecr.jpg.html)

The next two photos illustrate my temporary mysis nursery until I can finish building the boxes I want. This tube was built for another purpose although it does seem to be working well. A small portion of the return enters the tub to give a gentle circular flow. I am seeing the young mysis staying in plain view oriented with their heads into the flow. This behavior allows them to catch food as it drifts by without exerting much energy.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3373_zpsmorf09ru.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3373_zpsmorf09ru.jpg.html)http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3374_zpsboi7zidp.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3374_zpsboi7zidp.jpg.html)

This system actually contains 2-20 gallon nursery tubs, the 30 gallon cube tank (pictured) and a 29 gallon sump. If the population continues to increase I will begin adding adult mysis to the nursery tubs. I have a large number of pods in these systems and their numbers are continuing to increase despite the predation from the mysis.

[leliataylor]

Well the temporary mysis nursery is working great. I did add more rubble rock to provide them with more places to hide. I also add a second trap to the adult tub patterned after figure 5 in this article. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/culturingmysids.pdf The first trap has been working well until this morning. While removing the cover on the trap I dropped it back into the tub. In the few seconds it took to pull it out it contained 5 adults and only two babies. It looks like it is time to get my mysis generator, that I built a few years ago, out of the storage shed and get it cycled. It is a similar design to this system http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/9/breeder

On a side note, I watched one of the adults catch a copepod today. It was hysterical, to bad I didn't catch a video of it. The shrimp targeted the pod which went into predator evasion mood. The shrimp looked like a receiver juggling a football until it finally made the catch.

[leliataylor]

I modified the way I had the trap so that one return flows over the top of the trap and air flows over it from the other side. This really worked a lot better and had a number of tiny shrimp in the trap this morning. I need to get a ring to go over the top and glue the micron mesh onto instead of using rubber bands.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3387_zps4vzslj9i.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3387_zps4vzslj9i.jpg.html)

This is a small section of the tub showing some of the adults.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/IMGP3389_zpssjfszmke.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/IMGP3389_zpssjfszmke.jpg.html)

[leliataylor]

A close up of a adult female take a few years ago. Her pouch is visible in this photo.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/mysis%20shrimp%206-08-2012%20010_zpshcbglcuj.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/mysis%20shrimp%206-08-2012%20010_zpshcbglcuj.jpg.html)

[leliataylor]

My favorite species of copepods for seahorse fry and mysis love them also. These are Apocyclops panamensis. I have found them to be easy to propagate and they do well on phytopaste. The females look like they have two balloons on either side of them below their bodies which are their egg sacs.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/copepods%2011-08-2012%20007_zpsrho6ywwh.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/copepods%2011-08-2012%20007_zpsrho6ywwh.jpg.html)

[leliataylor]

Things are working better than I planned. After seeding my other tanks with mysis I and depleting the population in the tub it is now full of mysis again. I have been taking the filter sock out daily and letting it sit into the 30 gallon tank to release the pods trapped in it. Today I found a number of juvenile mysis in that tank, as well as a large number of pods. I figured there had to be newborn mysis in the filter sock, although I was never able to see them. Now I have mysis in 3 tanks that are not housing seahorses and will add some to another nursery system today. I stopped trying to trap the newborns 5 days ago since I had not set up another nursery for them and they are obviously surviving well without any help from me. What seems to be working is keeping them well fed, giving them plenty of hiding places and removing a large number of adults as the population density increases. This is not the best way to propagate mysis, however it is providing my seahorses with live food that they truly enjoy.

[leliataylor]

Well I am slowly getting smarter than the average shrimp. LOL I removed all the larger mysis from the nursery 2 days ago and added some very pregnant females. Today I removed the females and found a number of newborns. Tomorrow I am going to place 730 micron mesh in the top portion of the nursery and add more pregnant females. They are easy to catch, just hold a white net near them and they dive in. Yes they are strongly attracted to bright white objects. Using the same prinicple I added a white sieve to the main tank to use as a trap for any babies born in the primary tank, replacing the blue one I had previously used. I am also getting large numbers of pods and some newborn mysis in my filter sock that I am releasing into a 30 gallon tank, that population is doing well. I have another nursery in the works, just double checking it to make sure it is clearing ammonia like I want before I add the shrimp. The system is already full of pods so I am sure it is ready. Just being cautious.

[devildog1986]

Well I am slowly getting smarter than the average shrimp. LOL I removed all the larger mysis from the nursery 2 days ago and added some very pregnant females. Today I removed the females and found a number of newborns. Tomorrow I am going to place 730 micron mesh in the top portion of the nursery and add more pregnant females. They are easy to catch, just hold a white net near them and they dive in. Yes they are strongly attracted to bright white objects. Using the same prinicple I added a white sieve to the main tank to use as a trap for any babies born in the primary tank, replacing the blue one I had previously used. I am also getting large numbers of pods and some newborn mysis in my filter sock that I am releasing into a 30 gallon tank, that population is doing well. I have another nursery in the works, just double checking it to make sure it is clearing ammonia like I want before I add the shrimp. The system is already full of pods so I am sure it is ready. Just being cautious.

Is there a blog or post you are following? I'm interested in doing the same. I also want to grow phytoplankton. Keep us updated!


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[leliataylor]

Nothing that I am following. I first started keeping mysis over 10 years ago to supplement my seahorses diet, this is my first serious attempt to propagate them. Over the years I have read everything I could find about this species, Americamysis bahia. During this time I have also worked on improving my copepod propagation skills. Mysis are a natural food source for many species of seahorses. Newborn mysis are a excellent food for older seahorse fry. Copepods are the best food source for newborn pelagic seahorse fry and a excellent source of food for adult mysis. Mysis and copepods both need phyto in one form or another in their diet. I use to culture T. iso, Tetraselmis and Nano to feed my pod cultures and began experimenting with different types of phyto paste, since live phyto cultures are labor intensive. The best phyto paste I have found so far for propagating pods is Shell Fish diet. I am also finding it works well for mysis when used in conjunction with other coral feeds and caulerpa. There are several threads on MOFIB and other websites regarding this. I started working on this to provide tiny pelagic seahorse fry that were too small to consume BBS and adult WC seahorses that did recognize ABS as food with a suitable diet. Rotifers do not work well for seahorse fry and many other marine species due to their lack of recognizable color and their spinning behavior which does not stimulate a feeding response. This is based on scientific research that has been done. Hence, my journey to find a way to propagate some optimal foods for seahorses from fry to adulthood, on a hobbyist level.

[FarmerTy]

Sorry if I missed it but are you culturing freshwater mysis or saltwater mysiid shrimps?

[leliataylor]

Saltwater mysis. http://mblaquaculture.com/content/organisms/live_mysis_shrimp.php

[leliataylor]

The white trap is working better and collecting more newborns. There at least 24 newborns in the trap this morning.

My volunteer population in the 30 gallon is expanding nicely and I was able to observe a female release her young from her pouch this morning. Guess it is time to set up a trap in that tank as well.

The population density in the tub seems to be increasing despite my continuous harvesting so it is time to move some to another tank. Last week the density seemed lower and I was getting a little concerned. I harvested some on Sunday and today the density seems to be back to where it was a couple of weeks ago. I did add some of the juveniles from the nursery back in to the adult tank last week which may account for some of the increase in the population. Another factor is I am only collecting newborns that are born about the same time and placing them in the nursery. The rest are on their own and some of them do survive. They seem to double in size in the first couple of days so it would be counter productive to add more newborns daily to the same system. At about two weeks they are large enough to be added back into the adult system and are capable of reproducing at about 3 weeks of age.

[leliataylor]

Here is a photo of a newborn mysis next to a water spot. For a size comparison the spot is .3cm wide by .4cm high.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/newborn%20mysis%208-31-2016%20a_zpsjuavhaxy.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/newborn%20mysis%208-31-2016%20a_zpsjuavhaxy.jpg.html)

[leliataylor]

When I fed everybody this afternoon I began watching some of the newborn mysis. They were darting around obviously in prey capture mode. So I began to shoot some pictures in a effort to visualize what they were feeding on since I could not see what they were consuming. I caught a picture of one of newborns and when I blew it up there was one tiny mysis (less than .2 cm long and less than .1 cm wide) and three pods that were much smaller in the picture. I did seed these tanks with A. Panamensis pods some time ago and the body shape is consistent with this species.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p419/cheryl_taylor5/newborn%20mysis%20and%20pods%208-31-2016_zpssx2q0ugj.jpg (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/cheryl_taylor5/media/newborn%20mysis%20and%20pods%208-31-2016_zpssx2q0ugj.jpg.html)

[leliataylor]

One my population is definitely expanding again and I have been able to feed out more of the mysis to my seahorses. One article that I read stated the females will stop producing if the population becomes too dense. I have added flake food to their diet as well. I am now up to four tanks on two separate systems that are dedicated to mysis.

[celticstarb]

Hi, Cheryl,

Here is a drawing of the mysid generator I saw online. I haven't been able to find the plans again, so if anyone knows who designed it please let me know so I can give them credit.

It won't let me upload the pic so here's a link:
http://s99.photobucket.com/user/Smilesjon/media/Mysid%20Generator_zpshpmddbxd.jpg.html

You can use any size aquarium

Place a solid divider to section off the standpipe.

Drill a hole towards the top of the divider to insert the PVC through the divider.

Use silicon or a bulkhead to make sure the divider remains water tight

The PVC should touch the bottom on the breeding side of the aquarium. Use two 45 degree elbows to make sure the pvc lays flush on the bottom of the breeding side.

Glue netting to the opening of the PVC elbow on the bottom of the tank. The netting should be large enough to let the nauplii through, but too small for the adults to pass.

On the standpipe side of the generator, use zip ties to hang a plankton sieve on the PVC elbow.

Adjust the standpipe so it is about level with the middle of the plankton sieve.

Adjust the return pump so that it is enough to suck up the nauplii, but not too high that it damages them.

Set up and cycle a sponge filter for the breeding side of the generator.

So basically, as the water fills, It will start overflowing directly into the plankton sieve. The nauplii will be automatically harvested. You can then feed them to your fry, or put them in a growing container. Collect no less than every 3 days so the older nauplii won't eat the younger ones.

[leliataylor]

I dropped a piece of white PVC into a tank a couple of days ago. This morning there we a couple of dozen newborns all over it. The adults avoid the PVC. Go figure. Propagating mysis use to be a daunting task, now I am able to feed my seahorses live mysis a couple of times a week. There must be something in the water or all the years I have I have spent working on raising tiny pelagic seahorse fry has made raising mysis much easier.

[leliataylor]

Yesterday I moved a couple of dozen juvenile mysis out of the newborn nursery and into another tank. I then moved 10 very pregnant females into the nursery and have newborns this morning. In reality I have newborns in 4 tanks and if they are being eaten it is not putting a dent in my expanding population. The dozen or so mysis that I put in a 30 gallon tank last month has now developed into "too many to count" and I now have two tanks of adults that I can collect from. At this point I don't know if the tanks I seeded with mysis have any survivors since my seahorses will snick them in a split second if they can find them.

[leliataylor]

The juveniles I moved on the 20th have started reproducing as of this morning. I removed the females from the MMN (mini mysis nursery) this morning and added 5 more very pregnant females. The MMN is full of newborns (I counted at least 12 in a 1" square area) and the 5 females should add about 40-50 newborns within the next 24 hours. Right now I am very happy because I forgot to pick up any ABS to feed my young seahorses so they have been getting 3 feedings a day of live mysis. Currently I have the adults in three separate tanks with a total water volume of 70 gallons, minus the sumps. The adult tanks also have a number of newborns and juveniles which seem to be thriving. The copepod population density in these tanks has also continued to increase which I didn't expect.

[celticstarb]

I find it interesting that the pod population continues to grow. I would have thought the mysis would eat the pods. I can't wait to see how things turn out for you! Your ponies will grow some much faster on mysis than ABS!

[leliataylor]

The mysis are consuming the pods, however they just keep coming back with the amount of food I am feeding these systems. My mysis nursery has at least 50 juveniles in it again and my other 3 tanks have too many to count. I found it interesting that the mysis population will grow and then decline , then grow again, as does the copepod population. When I harvest the mysis to feed my seahorses I see a distinct decline in the population and with in 2 weeks it is back up to where it was before.

[leliataylor]

Well I moved all the subadults out of the nursery and into GP tanks. I then started to collect pregnant females out of the original tank, that had a declining population due to harvesting adults for seahorse food. Each time I caught a large female to move into the nursery I also caught at least a half dozen tiny mysis in the net. The population in that tank is once again producing mysis in large numbers and I need to start feeding out mysis from my 30 gallon to reduce the population and stimulate breeding in that tank.

[FarmerTy]

This is such a cool project. Ever think about selling once the population gets really large? I know I'd buy some!

[Justin]

Do you have any pics of your setup Cheryl?

[leliataylor]

Sorry for the slow response Justin I have been very busy refinishing my kitchen cabinets (it is saving me thousands). There are some pictures on page 2 of this thread. Basically I am using 3 seahorse nursery tubs and a growout tank that has the overflow covered with 50 micron mesh for the mysis shrimp. I will post more pictures asap. I am sure if I set up the mysis generator I built a few years back my numbers would be larger, although it is getting to the point the population is expanding even with heavy predation from me. The seahorse nursery systems are designed to prevent tiny pelagic seahorse from entering the filter sock, so they work well for newborn mysis. My newborn seahorse are about the same diameter as a newborn mysis and seahorses are only slightly longer. Newborn mysis are too large for very young comes fry to consume. I would think the young mysis would make a great meal for fish, such as, mandarins. In my opinion they are easier to culture than copepods.

[seamonkey2]

Cheryl. I sent you a pm

Jose

[kristof]

I would love to learn more about your mysis culturing techniques, as it would be necessary for me to start and maintain a decent-sized culture if I were to ever feel comfortable enough with my ability as an aquarist to proceed with my dream build (weedy seadragons). In the mean time, it would also be beneficial to produce live mysis for my current tank that's sort of easing me in to those requirements that's centered around potbelly seahorses.