water changes a must?

[THE_BEAST]

ok guys and gals i have a question. all theories are welcomed.
my question is are water changes really necessary? the whole debate is water changes are a means to reduce nitrates and phosphates and other organics in the water column. so my question is. if your system has zero phosphates and zero nitrates(tested with redsea kit). and.your are also dosing the big three cal. alk. mag. in addition to trace elements do you really need to do.a.water change???! READY GO.

[Zack]

I ran my 40 on the thrive program using liquid carbon dosing and being tested by Red Sea test kits and had all my levels in line with what their system recommended. I never did a water change and that entire system was honestly the best tank I've ever had. I had a large skimmer on it also fwiw.

[Zack]

I had to feed a ton of food though to keep my softies from loosing color. My buddy whose on here (Stephen) watched me feed my tank one time and he was shocked.

[THE_BEAST]

fwiw? i have a good skimmer too.

[Dean]

Great topic for discussion.


My biggest concern would be the dissipation of the trace elements that are not normally tested for that are consumed by the tank inhabitants. If you dose a product that covers trace elements don't you need to test those elements to insure you aren't over or under dosing them?

[THE_BEAST]

yes i have always heard dont dose what you cant test for. but lets say you.use reef crystal or kents marine salt or redsea coral pro. who really tests for all.the elements that make up that mix.

[jcnkt_ellis]

In regards to the trace elements, there are now tests like Triton that measure all of them and, the same company sells the trace elements to add back in. They advocate a no water change system. There is also a Dutch Synthetic Method version that also follows a no water change only dose regime and people are having success with them.

In regards to the contents of commercial salts, a lot of people on a different forum have been posting Triton results for many common brands and it is interesting to see the extra stuff that's in there.

[THE_BEAST]

im gonna look up this triton method. i have heard of it. but know nothing of it

[Zack]

Thrive and triton are very similar. Both offer ways to tell you exactly what elements your missing and sell concentrated bottles of each.

[Dean]

yes i have always heard dont dose what you cant test for. but lets say you.use reef crystal or kents marine salt or redsea coral pro. who really tests for all.the elements that make up that mix.

Salt mixes are comprised of similar levels to seawater so OD'ing the trace elements will not happen through water changes where as dosing those elements themselves can?

[Dean]

With the Triton method you have to wait the turn around time of sending your water to them for testing and waiting to get the results. Weren't there complaints about the two to three week turn around? By then the water chemistry is certainly not going to be the same would it?

[THE_BEAST]

With the Triton method you have to wait the turn around time of sending your water to them for testing and waiting to get the results. Weren't there complaints about the two to three week turn around? By then the water chemistry is certainly not going to be the same would it?

well i.would.think it cant be too far off. do.elements deteriorate? because if its in a plastic bottle there is nothing in that bottle pulling cal alk mag etc. but if there is BB in the bottle coukd potentially. die and foul up the water

[jcnkt_ellis]

I'm seeing 10-14 days, the tests are bein shipped to Germany and results posted online.

[Cammed_02]

Even with dosing to ensure trace elements remain in balance, what are you doing about the constant buildup of detritus without syphoning the sand bed and blowing off the rocks?

Even if you have plenty of flow and a very large skimmer detritus will slowly continue to build up and leach phosphates. You're rock and sand will only be able to handle so much before they become saturated and begin leaching it back into your system.

Syphoning the sandbed and blowing off the rocks is a must imo.

[THE_BEAST]

that is also another insight i havent thought of. although i have been told to never vacuum the sand bed. and i never have. but i do blow off the rocks and.it floats around in the water column until A it settles again or B it. goes into the over flow and gets trapped in the filter socks

[Cammed_02]

Also the phosphate test is only testing what is in the water column. All other phosphates are being consumed by algae in the tank or being bound by the rock and sand. Once those storages are completely filled the phosphates will show themselves in the water column.

[THE_BEAST]

that makes sense.

[THE_BEAST]

so let me ask you this. if you have a phosphate reactor or media like phosgaurd. as that phosphate leaches into the water column. would the reactor and or media absorb it?

[Cammed_02]

that is also another insight i havent thought of. although i have been told to never vacuum the sand bed. and i never have. but i do blow off the rocks and.it floats around in the water column until A it settles again or B it. goes into the over flow and gets trapped in the filter socks

Who ever told you that was probably referring to a deep sand bed that wasn't vacuumed from the beginning to prevent releasing all the organics that have been bound in the sand bed. Only way to prevent this is vacuum and blow off the rocks from the beginning.

[Cammed_02]

so let me ask you this. if you have a phosphate reactor or media like phosgaurd. as that phosphate leaches into the water column. would the reactor and or media absorb it?

It probably would, however the GFO would be exhausted after only a couple of days. That would get expensive quick.

[Dean]

well i.would.think it cant be too far off. do.elements deteriorate? because if its in a plastic bottle there is nothing in that bottle pulling cal alk mag etc. but if there is BB in the bottle coukd potentially. die and foul up the water

What I meant was the water chemistry in your tank would not be the same two to three weeks later by the time you got the results back. I guess over a long period of time it could be dialed in if nothing changes in the tank but coral growth is going to make things inconsistent.

[alton]

For me keeping my tanks up is doing water changes. Sometimes I get lax but I make up for it with larger than normal water changes. With my setup at home in the time it takes to do a few water test I can change 60 gallons on my 300. I check for Calcium regularly and sometimes for Nitrates and Mag.

[THE_BEAST]

how often is everyone doing water changes and how many gallons?

[Dean]

I try to keep up with 10% weekly but a busy weekend may mean 20% the weekend after.

[kkiel02]

50 gallons weekly here

[Cammed_02]

I change 15 gallons every 1.5-2 weeks depending on my lazy schedule.

[Dkray944]

I do 45gallons every two weeks on my 225

[LuckySingh]

10 gln once a month

[Bill S]

I do 35 gallons every few weeks.

There have been a whole line of products for over 40 years, claiming you won't have to do water changes. It always seems to come back to this: water changes are an inexpensive part of this hobby, and doing them solves so many problems. So, why not? I also take the opportunity to siphon detritus off the bottom of the sump, and do my regular maintenance.

[THE_BEAST]

Inexpensive if you have a smaller system. But what about those guys that are doing 60 gallon water changes weekly. Thats like a box of salt a month at 60 dollars a box.

[kkiel02]

It's still the cheapest way to maintain your levels that I know of.

[THE_BEAST]

I.dose medical.grade vitamin c. Sodium ascorbate. Dropped my nitrates and phosphates to undetectable levels withen a month. 14 dollars a bottle. Half teaspoon. Day. That's cheap

[kkiel02]

But you still have to dose trace elements and two part to get all the benefits of a water change. You are only thinking of dropping the nitrate and phosphate. You can run a turf scrubber and it is even cheaper for that.

[THE_BEAST]

True. Im not dosing two part or trace elements YET but im gonna start as soon as my order frm brs gets here

[Dean]

What method are you planning to use for trace elements dosing?

[THE_BEAST]

Clownfitch. Havent really settled on anything yet. Do you have a recommendations?

[Dean]

I don't have any recommendations. I would be worried about over dosing. That's why I was asking. Very curious to see how this works out for you. Keep us posted.

[THE_BEAST]

Im not gonna.try and.eliminate water changes. But i do wanna get away from weekly water changes. To maybe monthly. Every first of the month or so. Ill definitly keep you posted