Lets argue !!!! Metal halides Vs T5s Vs Leds

[LuckySingh]

I am sure this has been covered tons of time but its a never ending arguement on this topic. I had great sucess with metal halides and t5s over the years but my one of my last project 57gln under AI Sols was disasters . It was started as t5s than switch to metal halides and than I was told to try leds and ai sols were the hottest leds at that time in the market . I tried and everything bleached resulted in tank shut down.
Even thou I took my time and started with low intensity but still couldn't figure out whay happened and I blamed tje lights as my water parameters were ok.
Any ways technology keeps changing and getting advance. My new build is going to be a semi shallow 60gln reef and I went ahead and invested in ati hybrid fixture . But talking to bunch and various experienced hobbiest over the different forum it seems leds are doing well for bunch of folks . I always thought use halides and t5s 1st to grow and later down the years try leds to make ur reef colorful.
However I wanted to give a second shot on leds now and try ghl mitras after seeing wonderful results on their online forum or should I stick to t5s as they proven fact to grow colors.

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[Big_Pun]

so as a MH fanboy I gotta say I liked led fixture. this year I'll have a tank started with led from day one and all new Sps frags. t5 Helped with color along with t5. my 65 was all t5 powered and it was great color and growth. my 150 did well when I swapped to led and all grew just as fast but colonies had die off in shadowed areas(not as much punch as mh) I think mh is superior but the heat and electricity is a lil of a pain to deal with. I like how I can program my light to ramp up and down and more control over it. I think depending on tank size all 3 have there place and work.
my current fixture is old in the led world, vertex illunina 260 48in. modules have Cree LEDs no lenses, royal blue, blue, and white.

I think Mitras will be a good choice to try, also vertex have dropped in price and may be releasing a new fixture.

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[BBQHILLBILLY]

Now doubt T5s are awesome. Im currently using them now. T5s with controlling timers even better. Fast coral growth.
However I cover 2tanks and 13 ft so cost of bulbs are high. Going back to LEDs here. LEDs pop the colors.

[SABOB]

Compact Fluorescents, lol


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[CoryDude]

Compact Fluorescents, lol


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Yes sir, we all need to go back to 96 w blended PC bulbs!

Personally, I miss my 250 watt halide and vho combo. I like my ai fixtures, but like Chris said, the undersides of all sps have had a hard time adjusting to the LEDs

[Zephyr Aquatics]

Against everyone's highest opinions LEDs have yet to be mastered. I think they are getting better and better but i do not believe they are the best thing out there. The reality of it is that as a aquarist we rarely keep our set up for more that a year or two max. With that being said a once a year frag sale to earn enough cash to replace 4 to 10 t5 bulbs or 2 halide bulbs isnt that bad. Leds are getting cheaper and unless you buy a model with all the bells and whistles they are quit affordable. But they rarely ever fit the needs of your next tank build or have a decent resale. T5's and halides give better spread because of the reflectors that are being used with them. just take a parabolic reflector and see how many points of light are emitted from it when you slightly aim it the wall with just the light emitted from your ceiling lights. Leds are one directional, and even with 120 degree optics they are still only one beam of light. I personally like the way panorama pros worked over my tank. no optics and small two sided reflectors was the good, the bad was 107 par at the sand at 18".

[Big_Pun]

one thing that got me to swap over was seeing companies like Ora,live aquaria, pacific east and many big fish stores and other vendors swapping to led. I'm sure they wouldn't risk their businesses on a gimmick


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[Zephyr Aquatics]

No your right. But their job is to make corals look good and sell them as quickly as possible. They can make an allright coral look amazing with leds, thus boosting their sales. I am also sure their budget and amount of led is probably pretty impressive. I've seen many led only tanks look amazing but they have alot of units vs just 1 or 2.

[Big_Pun]

this tank was done with radion only and growth and color are very nice. believe me I did a lot of research before jumping on this led fad, I bought my unit in hopes I would hate it and prove everyone wrong. now im sold, my previous light was a beast 2x 250w de powered by lumetek ballast and 4x 54w t5 with workhorses ballast. current light fixture provided same color and growth And spread.


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[350gt]

No your right. But their job is to make corals look good and sell them as quickly as possible. They can make an allright coral look amazing with leds, thus boosting their sales. I am also sure their budget and amount of led is probably pretty impressive. I've seen many led only tanks look amazing but they have alot of units vs just 1 or 2.

Might want to look again at the companies he mentioned... Its not any chump off of ebay or garage vendor....

Those are great vendors with many years in the industry...

Me personally, i believe its user error more than anything when it comes to LEDS....

Sure they are not perfect....

But either are MEtal halides... Sure they will grow just about anything you throw at them(for some)... But the heat, electricity and bulb replacement is why bigger vendors are doing away with them.....

If you really think its to make corals look pretty to sell faster, you are mistaken...
Sure joe smo on ebay with his chinese black boxes might be, but not companies that are buying leds from reputable companies...

[Zephyr Aquatics]

I guess im yet to see definitive proof in the last year or so that leds are superior to t5's and halides. If there is one thing I've noticed is a rise in algae issues with led lit reefs.

[Zephyr Aquatics]

Now let me also add that im not saying that t5's or halides are the only way to go, all im saying is that they are still viable options vs leds. Im also not trying to rile up all the led fanatics, just simply voicing my opinion.

[350gt]

I personally like t5s....

But the guessing when a bulb has reached his life span, heat, and bland looking tank is why i would never run a 6+ bulb unit on a tank.....

MH imo is dead...

Sure there are a few dinos left that will only run them cause of the remarkable growth..... But like incandescent light bulbs.... There time is very near.....

Leds, not perfect but getting there...

Look how many advancements aqua illuminations made in a short period, they are evolving to a better light with better spectrum, coverage and trying to fix that **** disco effect(lol)...

I dont like how the units are pushing the 100watt mark but not many run theres at 100% anyway...

[350gt]

I guess im yet to see definitive proof in the last year or so that leds are superior to t5's and halides. If there is one thing I've noticed is a rise in algae issues with led lit reefs.

Definitely looking at the wrong tanks then.....

What leds are you viewing?

[350gt]

Now let me also add that im not saying that t5's or halides are the only way to go, all im saying is that they are still viable options vs leds. Im also not trying to rile up all the led fanatics, just simply voicing my opinion.

Same here...

I would run MH if my budget was tight and i wanted to warm my house during the winter and bake my living room in the summer.... :)

[ramsey]

Against everyone's highest opinions LEDs have yet to be mastered. I think they are getting better and better but i do not believe they are the best thing out there. The reality of it is that as a aquarist we rarely keep our set up for more that a year or two max. With that being said a once a year frag sale to earn enough cash to replace 4 to 10 t5 bulbs or 2 halide bulbs isnt that bad. Leds are getting cheaper and unless you buy a model with all the bells and whistles they are quit affordable. But they rarely ever fit the needs of your next tank build or have a decent resale. T5's and halides give better spread because of the reflectors that are being used with them. just take a parabolic reflector and see how many points of light are emitted from it when you slightly aim it the wall with just the light emitted from your ceiling lights. Leds are one directional, and even with 120 degree optics they are still only one beam of light. I personally like the way panorama pros worked over my tank. no optics and small two sided reflectors was the good, the bad was 107 par at the sand at 18".

LEDs have great resale value. Look at the T5 and MH systems on sale for dirt cheap. A 4 year old AI SOL will bring you about half of what you paid for them new, or even more. I agree that they're not perfect but they're getting there. The flexibility you get with LED along with the features and bulb longevity make them worth while in my opinion. I love that I can run a varied spectrum throughout the day with my Radion. I can go from 18-14-12-14-18k in a single day and be able to see my coral in a different light (pun intended) throughout the day.

[Zephyr Aquatics]

I honestly cant wait till leds are perfected, they are truly the future. And I usually don't get into these conversations because 1). I honestly have limited experience with lots of different leds units 2). These conversations usually turn into ****ing contests with no real positive information being shared only brand bias opinions. But, I do have over a decade of experience with halides, t5's and t12's and that's why I'm giving my two cents. I also share the same love/hate relationships with halides and t5's as every other person who runs them or has run them. These next few years in led advancement are going to be nothing shy of amazing! I wont be surprised if they they are mastered in the near future.

[Big_Pun]

yes I have read the algae issue thing before and had some deep convos with people on RC and my buddy nick. from what I gathered is for some reason the led lights are less forgiving , in terms of tank husbandry. people who get algae are those who slack in water changes use tap, or don't clean there tank as they should. I had the same issue when I jumped over, it's made me a better custodian to my tank, which as I see it is for the better.


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[350gt]

I change my water every 2 weeks and not one spot of algae in my tank...

Only time i did, is when i slipped up and skipped a few weeks.....

Been running leds for 2 years now...

[Zephyr Aquatics]

All good points about leds. The ability to dim and adjust spectrum on the fly is something thats not possible with the latter options.

[350gt]

And they work.....

Sure growth might still not be on par with MH.. And to some thats a big deal...

But to some who dont want to deal with heat, electricity and bulb changes.. Its not a big deal...

Again..... User error plays a big part....

I am running the whites at 15% on my ai vegas.. And i am getting growth on a sunset montipora thats close to the sand bed, it was almost deAd on me but bouncing back...

My lights are 12" awl and tank is 24" deep...

[Zephyr Aquatics]

AI's ability to dim by spectrum is something I think is very amazing and huge step towards perfecting leds. Which brings up another good point against t5's/halides......there hasn't really any advancement towards making them "better". Im not sure if there is a way to improve them, where as leds are getting better every 6 months or so.

[350gt]

AI's ability to dim by spectrum is something I think is very amazing and huge step towards perfecting leds. Which brings up another good point against t5's/halides......there hasn't really any advancement towards making them "better". Im not sure if there is a way to improve them, where as leds are getting better every 6 months or so.

Tell me about it...

I was ****ed when i thought i was getting the latest and greatest with the vegas....

Then they release the hydras... With better lenses to help with the **** disco effect and uv and violet leds... They also reduced the 5watt white leds to 3 watts, I think cause the 5 watt are way to overpowering...

Now the fifty two from AI is the new thing.. Imo that thing should be pretty close to perfect.... Going to be a beast of a light with a 36" square coverage and every color led imaginable(well close)...

[350gt]

Dont get me wrong though....

First time i laid eyes on a 14k Phoenix bulb was at randys house and that tank looked sick... And he had little to no heat.... I almost went that route before leds....


And i am not a AI fanboy.. I still would like a ecotech radion pro.....

[Zephyr Aquatics]

And I wanna say that's the biggest issue with me, personally, if you try and keep up with the newest of led fixtures you can spend a small fortune...... or feel as you do now where your left feeling like your now "out of date" as far as your leds.

[Zephyr Aquatics]

Dang Lucky got us all riled up then went to bed......hahahahaha

[350gt]

And I wanna say that's the biggest issue with me, personally, if you try and keep up with the newest of led fixtures you can spend a small fortune...... or feel as you do now where your left feeling like your now "out of date" as far as your leds.

Resale value is good enough on them though.. Where it wont be a big loss to move to the "next" thing....

With MH... You pretty much have to give those things back to the sun gods..

[350gt]

Dang Lucky got us all riled up then went to bed......hahahahaha

Its all gud!

With chris(bigpun) on the led side now, theres not much argument from that side anymore... Plus its 3:00 am and all the Mh guys should be up for their morning coffee and pills in a couple of hours....

[Zephyr Aquatics]

But, in a weird way of comparing it, isn't that like replacing bulbs.....it still costs $$$ every year? I do understand that its an upgrade vs. staying parallel with t5's or halides but its still an annual cost that adds up in the same way.

[350gt]

I havent upgraded... No need, everything is fine as is....

So it will be merely for preference if i do.... But i get what your saying.

[Zephyr Aquatics]

And let me thank you for not taking my questions and comments as argumentative or personal, all I'm trying to do is give lucky different points of interest to help him make his own decision vs swaying him in one direction or another.

[FireWater]

It's now been over two years of running LED fixtures on a 120g tank. I can honestly say I am both happy and frustrated at times.

As already mentioned, water quality and upkeep of maintenance is the single largest factor in success long term. Another thing that is not mentioned yet is the majority I have spoken with that have had issues were ones that ran a subpar quality fixture. There isn't as much wiggle room for error on LED.

I started with AI Sols which then transferred over to Allan and he ran a great tank with. I upgraded to Vegas after the Sols. The major factor for me to upgrade was the advancement in technology and added color spectrum along with the modular / upgradeable capabilities of the Vegas.

[slm222]

It's now been over two years of running LED fixtures on a 120g tank. I can honestly say I am both happy and frustrated at times.

What have been the things that have made you happy and things that have made you frustrated with LEDs?

[350gt]

What have been the things that have made you happy and things that have made you frustrated with LEDs?

Finding the right intensities, i think is the biggest gripe for all fixtures with the ability to control each led.

Its all guess work and trial and error...

[FireWater]

Tony described the biggest frustration. Finding a sweet spot has been the hardest thing to deal with. It was hard to take a chance on buying quality fixtures as well. It's too often that price will dictate what is put over, on, or in a tank.

[slm222]

I am curious mainly because I'm awaiting the hydra 52 I just ordered.

to OP, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.

[350gt]

I am curious mainly because I'm awaiting the hydra 52 I just ordered.

to OP, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.

Thats going to be a sick fixture!

[JVI90GREEF]

From what I've been reading lately, a lot of people are doing T-5/LEDs at the same time...and are raving about their setups. Just my .02

[350gt]

From what I've been reading lately, a lot of people are doing T-5/LEDs at the same time...and are raving about their setups. Just my .02

Including me.....

I kept my 2 48" t5 running with my sols and now with my vegas. I have 2 ati true actinics running a few hours a day..

[slm222]

Does anyone know of single tube t5 fixtures so I can hang a 24 inch bulb on each side of my led fixture

[LuckySingh]

Retrofit

[mkengr45]

I've been looking at the hydra 52 but the one downside is that I like being able to control everything off of my controller (GHL Profilux III). GHL does not have any way to communicate with the 52. Anyone using the AI Director?

[slm222]

I ordered it along with the 52. Everything I've researched on it looks promising

[Zack]

I've been looking at the hydra 52 but the one downside is that I like being able to control everything off of my controller (GHL Profilux III). GHL does not have any way to communicate with the 52. Anyone using the AI Director?

Ai can be controlled by the Apex, by the new module they just released

[mkengr45]

Ai can be controlled by the Apex, by the new module they just released

I don't use an Apex....I use a GHL Profilux 3, which is supposed to be a killer controller but sure has turned out to be a pain in the ***.

[FireWater]

Ya, but it says GHL and looks so freaking awesome, Randy.

[350gt]

Lol.....

Just get it randy! Sick fixture fo sho!

[CoryDude]

MH imo is dead...

Sure there are a few dinos left that will only run them cause of the remarkable growth..... But like incandescent light bulbs.... There time is very ..

Call me corysaurusrex then, talked myself into going back to halides. I was looking at my older tank pics and compared hem to more recent shots and that did it for me. I love the controllability, the look, the lack of heat, and just about everything else about LEDs. But until they progress a little further, I'm going with what I know works.

[350gt]

Call me corysaurusrex then, talked myself into going back to halides. I was looking at my older tank pics and compared hem to more recent shots and that did it for me. I love the controllability, the look, the lack of heat, and just about everything else about LEDs. But until they progress a little further, I'm going with what I know works.



Lol that would be a awesome screen name

[Big_Pun]

Call me corysaurusrex then, talked myself into going back to halides. I was looking at my older tank pics and compared hem to more recent shots and that did it for me. I love the controllability, the look, the lack of heat, and just about everything else about LEDs. But until they progress a little further, I'm going with what I know works.

nick went back to mh, led, t5 all on one tank. I've thought about selling my light for the coral vue fixture.



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[allan]

I've said this a couple times since breaking down.

If I ever get back in, I'm picking up a bucketful of the Chinese fixtures. They grow coral, and the colors were just as good as with the sols.

Sure, you can't program them to ramp up or down, to mimic a cloudy day or thunderstorm... But the truth of the matter is I never say through a ramp up cycle with a cup of coffee or even Geritol.

I believe that there are a number of delicate coral out there that will not take a switch from halide to led, simply because the change is so rapid. And they're delicate.

I made the swap from 100% halide to 50/50, then to 100% led.

I didn't have any of the delicate stuff.

The cloudy weather or lightening storm was more of an irritant as it always happened when I was showing my relatives the tank.

[kkiel02]

I've been super happy with my radions. I was also thinking about the whole t5 retro but in the end I didn't need it as you can control the spectrum from your computer and it would be another yearly bulb replacement. I'm going to have to research this 52 fixture though as I need spread in my tank more than anything. The radion 2 is doing good but they are just lacking slightly(maybe four") in between each of the three fixtures I have noticed over time.

[kkiel02]

Double post

[kkiel02]

I also don't run the storm mode anymore. It felt like a rave and just got annoying. Haha

[350gt]

No storm for me but i use the cloud feature which is cool... Portion of the tank will be dim then brighten up...

[kkiel02]

Yeah I took that offline cause I would see that then think I had the re calibrate the lights. Lol. After a few times I figured it out but now it's off. I think...

[grouch]

I went to LED cause I was tired of spending the $$ on T5 bulbs.
My current config is: 1 VEGA blue.2 AquaBeam 600 Ultima - Reef White twin 18'' strips and
2 50 w bridgelux chips on 6'' MakersLED heatsinks.

I like the progamming fratures of the Vega but am not impressed with coral grouwth.
The 2 Aquabeam strips put out a lot of light for the numberof LEDs and I use this as a hgh noon boost. Nice lights with a 5year warranty.
The 2 50w chips on heatsinks add that nice blue look.
The best grouwth I ever got was with T5's on my 28 nano with a 6bulb T5
I just bought 2 coral pro fixtures from Reef Radience to replace the 50w chips cause they have UV in the spectrun mix and thay had a Xmas special price. This gives me some backup lighting for just in case also. Im with Allan the black box fixture seems to grow just as good if notbetter the the high price fixtures.

[350gt]

I like the progamming fratures of the Vega but am not impressed with coral grouwth.

Im with Allan the black box fixture seems to grow just as good if notbetter the the high price fixtures.

How long did you have the vega up alone before assessing this?

[350gt]

I also believe alot of ppl have luck with the black box because of the lower wattAge leds(earlier models) and set its a set it and forget it type of fixture..... Well the non dimmable ones...

With higher end units, its alot of guess work and ppl tend to blast their corals with too much light....

I almost gave up on my vegas, when things started going south.... But i figured out it had to do more with my husbandry than the lights.. Although i was blasting my tank with too much light.....

So glad i didnt as stuff has turned around rather quickly... And growth is finally noticeable..

[allan]

Actually, the black box that I have is dimmable... old school. Has a little knob that you turn to the color brightness that you want. Can't control it with a computer... unless you set your computer to alarm when you want to be notified to turn it up.

Yeah, next time I'm just picking up six or eight of the black boxes and running with them.

As far as growth is concerned, I don't think it's that far behind halides... but it is behind halides.

[grouch]

I've had it about 3 months


How long did you have the vega up alone before assessing this?

[350gt]

Actually, the black box that I have is dimmable... old school. Has a little knob that you turn to the color brightness that you want. Can't control it with a computer... unless you set your computer to alarm when you want to be notified to turn it up.


lol.....

[jcnkt_ellis]

I liked running halides on my 30" tall tank, but the colors don't pop as much as they do on my led nano.

As far as led fixtures go, I looked for a fixture that had a high output from 400nm to 500nm with a small spike around 650nm and very little presence in the rest of the spectrum. It led me to piece together a custom setup for my current 8 gallon nano, but, after having the wife complain about all the wires, I'm upgrading to a radion pro to put over a 20 gallon long.

I feel that spectrum output is an important consideration with leds as compared to T5s or MHs as leds generally only cover a very specific tight bandwidth. Without the right spectrum, growth and color will suffer. With the wrong spectrum, algae will grow more readily.

Just my 2 cents...

[mkengr45]

I am currently back to running a mixed lighting system of AI sols and MH. My tank is 30" deep and funky shaped (144 half circle) so it is difficult to get good coverage in certain areas. Due to the short height of my canopy I also have my lights mounted closer to the water than I would like (5" above). I am looking at getting a pair of Hydra 52 but am concerned about the spread I would get and if they will have the punch for a 30" deep tank. I want to run the two Hydra 52 and still keep one MH in the middle. Any opinions?

Randy

[350gt]

No way to get them raised a bit Randy? 52s for sure would be sick but i think would need to be higher to get better coverage... Especially the hydras...

Any pics of the tank with the sols? What kind of coverage are you getting with just them?

[alton]

When I first started with saltwater I used 3 x T12 40 watt cool whites and one true 03 actinic. Then came compact fluorescent, Metal Halide, T5HO, and now LED.
The T12 Combo looked okay but not enough power. I grew SPS under CFL’s but they could not hold the gas required for Fluorescents so they did not last past 8 months before dropping off a bunch. When T5HO’s came out all you heard was how MH was dead technology and T5HO was the future. Well MH is still here and is so far ahead of T5 it is not funny when it comes to lamp life with certain lamps/ballast combos. Over the years I first used Coralvue Reeflux lamps which are Pulse Start just like the Radium. If you place a Reefflux lamp on a probe start magnetic ballast, it will be 25% dimmer than on an electronic ballast. I have never run a Pulse Start magnetic ballast so I am not sure but it should be comparable to the electronic? With Reeflux lamps they were lasting 18 months with only a 10% drop in light output and no spectral shift. With Radium I have had one out of six that dropped 10% after 12 months, but most last past 18 months with one that I have is around 24 months. All these lamps where protected by either a glass lense (Luminbright Pendant) or glass tops on my aquarium. When I had them in a canopy where moisture was present lamp life dropped 30%. With T5HO’s 12 months has been the max life I can get out of ATI or any other lamp whether they are protected or not. When you have a 4 lamp fixture it becomes a $100 dollar bill to change lamps that gets expensive every year.
LEDS well when the first ones came out super bright, but only used blue and white with no color and vey little PAR. And all you heard was “PAR meters don’t work with LEDS”. You could have used the same argument with a 20K MH Lamp, except for the Radium(which is closer to a 12K) because most of the 20k lamp is in the 450 range and there PAR readings sometimes are half of a 10K. Today’s Leds are much better with PAR readings, plus they are using full spectrum LED’s. The original LEDS were also too intense, and most are probably asking “well what does that mean”? There are two meters we use in my industry, Foot candle/LUX (How Bright) and PAR. I have a Reef Capable LED third generation, first one lasted two months, second lasted one week. This one has lasted over a year with very little drop off. PAR reading on top of the tank is 200 and 14 inches down 100. Not the greatest, but using a foot candle meter I have 4000 foot candles on top! Now what does that mean comparing to a MH, to get a 4000 foot candles I have to use a DE MH 400w lamp. My 250 watt radiums are 2500 foot candles with a PAR reading of 1900 at the top of my tank. I actually burned a green birdsnest that was farther up in my 40 gallon breeder with the Marineland fixture. And even with the lower PAR reading I had Tricolor SPS that did very well. If there is one thing that LEDs have taught us is we do not need a ton of PAR to grow corals. On my 300 gallon I have 3 x 250 watts of Radium lamps that produce a PAR reading of 200 in the bottom far corner and I grow beautiful green birdsnest in that location.
I think where people are having issues with LEDs is having too many choices on what look they want versus what your corals need. Does anybody take a spectral graph or PAR meter when adjusting their high dollar fixture? I doubt it, plus we are so worried about ramping up and down that our corals probably only get 4 hours of max light from the LEDs because the rest of the time we are at 40% with that cool dimming feature. Whereas on my Radium MH my corals are getting 10 hours in the winter time and 8 in the summer of 100%.
As most of you know I use a Build my LED fixture on my 125 (6’) tank at work. The PAR levels are pretty good. I grow algae on the front and back of the tank with no shadows using 90 degree lenses. I have softies and photosynthetic Gorgonians that are doing well with only using 100 watts for a 6’ light fixture running at about 85% and glass tops( I don’t want any moisture getting to this fixture and as I have learned with MH the protection will help them last longer). With the glass tops I do lose 10% of the light. Fish look as good if not better than under my ATI T5HO lamps. I understand Build My LED is now making an LED fixture that mimics a Radium lamp which I am dying to try out once my daughter graduates college. I run my LED fixture 12 hours a day.
In closing the same testing company that claims LEDs last 50,000 hours also has tested T8 lamps at 30,000 hours and MH with pulse start lamps and ballast at 20,000 hours. The average LED will drop 3% per year so if you run them at 80 – 85% you can raise them each year to maintain the same lighting levels for at least 4 to 6 years. One last thing a lamp at 4000 foot candles looks just like a lamp at 1500 foot candles, your eyes cannot tell the difference but your corals sure can. And a Radium lamp that is 24 months old looks exactly like one that is a few weeks old, only a meter can tell the difference.

[technomex]

Wow! I was going to post my opinion, but how do you follow that?

I got Vegas...they are pretty.

[350gt]

One thing i took from altons post is i have noticed since i started using the manual settings that i am only getting 3 or 4 hours of full power from my LEDs....

Nothing looks unhappy but zoas and palys are reaching up.... They weren't like that when using the caribbean setting....

All corals looks happy though..

[350gt]

One thing i took from altons post is i have noticed since i started using the manual settings that i am only getting 3 or 4 hours of full power from my LEDs....

Nothing looks unhappy but zoas and palys are reaching up.... They weren't like that when using the caribbean setting....

All corals looks happy though..

[slm222]

in the wild how much direct light do corals get? Im glad alton brought that up about LEDs because that was about the time frame I was looking at having all light on full blast. with a MH light and T5 the corals are getting 100% of light for the full amount of time you have them set to 8-10 hrs. has anyone done a true side by side on this site or any other? where everything is exactly the same, tank sizes, rock structures, live stock and frags from the same colony out of a different tank and they share the same sump. Ive seen where a tank was setup to the main tank that had MH and frag were grabbed from the main tank and put into the led tank. but to me that doesn't seem like a true test, since the coral were already growing in the main tank with MH and the LED tank was a new set up.