dsb vs ssb

[Reef Swimmer]

Im wanting to try a dsb with the 185 and im thinking of going 3 to 4 inches. What are the pros and cons of a dsb.

[rrasco]

Pros: Possible anoxic zones to complete the ammonia nitrogen cycle, thus reducing nitrates.

Cons: Ticking time bombs, finite life cycle, ugly.

[Big_Pun]

i really enjoy vacuuming my sand and getting all that crud out my tank. sand always looks nice and white also

[Reef Swimmer]

I want to have feather dusters cover the bottem like i saw on aces tank or just have one sand sifting sea star after the tank has been up for 7 months

[rrasco]

Pretty sure that doesn't require a DSB. If you don't understand all the risks associated with a DSB, I'd highly recommend not going that route. They are more dangerous than beneficial IMO.

[Reef Swimmer]

I've been reading up on them and from what I've read if you don't disturb the sand bed it's ok. I even read where one guy only disturbed the first couple inches and never had a problem but I've also read where if a lot of sand is moved its cause for a big problem. Since I've had my tank up and running I've never vacuumed my sand. I've moved corals around and changed the flow a few times but my sand stays put. That was until I sold some of my lr. But I still don't vacuum my sand. I will have a dozen sand snails though and a few hermit crabs but that's it as far as a cuc.

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[Paul28]

The Star fish will kill the little creatures in the deep sand bed that beats the point of the deep sand bed and sand sifters all together you should not have like gobies sifting :)

[Reef Swimmer]

Well they are the sand snails and I might not add them but I'm mot sure.

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[rrasco]

I guess the big question is: what do you hope to achieve with a DSB?

[ramsey]

i really enjoy vacuuming my sand and getting all that crud out my tank. sand always looks nice and white also

+1 go for a shallow (less than an inch) sand bed. Vacuum it out regularly and it'll look great and not cause you problems. Doing a DSB in your display is very risky. A lot of people have stated doing remote DSB's that aren't in their display or sump. Then they can easily take it offline if (when!) it causes problems.

[Paul28]

Snails are fine they only move the first inch around

[Reef Swimmer]

I want a stable tank and to have a living sand bed. Worms and all.

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[Paul28]

do not go below 3 inches if you do in a year or 2 it will release back on you 4 to 6 inches seems to be the sweet spot for most I read on it

[Reef Swimmer]

I know I need a great skimmer as well and I'm thinking a ssa es9 will do the trick. No bubblemagus for this guy.

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[Reef Swimmer]

So 4 is the minimum

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[Paul28]

have you watched the vid by newyourstelo ? he has a good vid on dsb

[Reef Swimmer]

Nope I haven't

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[Paul28]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon6SDZ3uNU&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL4ECFAE0142FF5BA5 here is a good one and also few others on his page

[Paul28]

now remember everones tanks are deferent what works for him might not work for you everyone tries deferent things that's the fun of the hobby :)

[Reef Swimmer]

Yep that's why I like it. No 2 tanks are the same.

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[Big_Pun]

since you have read all about dsb, what
is advantage over shallow sand beds? ive only seen a handful of dsb tanks that are nice and even with those they run into problems, but ive seen alot more without that are just as great if not better. loved aces tank, but he didnt sps for a reason in that tank.

[Reef Swimmer]

No worries about swings and easy to clean. No nitrite factory.

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[Reef Swimmer]

I'm still a guppy here but I'm learning

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[Reef Swimmer]

No more rushing in head first.

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[Reef Swimmer]

That's why the tank is still at Ben's and will stay there till it's payed off then to forever pets to get fixed right like it should have been done the first time,and it ain't leaving till it holds water for a week with no leaks.

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[Paul28]

nitrate reducer just another way to help the cycle if you leave a shallow sand bed alone and get lazy your nitrats and phos will explode

[Paul28]

since you have read all about dsb, what
is advantage over shallow sand beds? ive only seen a handful of dsb tanks that are nice and even with those they run into problems, but ive seen alot more without that are just as great if not better. loved aces tank, but he didnt sps for a reason in that tank.

with a full sps tank I would run a shallow if not at all only reason would is because I don't want the bottom of my sps to die with no reflection from the sand :) I want to control whats in that tank with reactors and bactiria

[rrasco]

Even with a DSB, I firmly believe you will have all of the same problems as any other tank, just one more thing that can go wrong. It is not the magic solution.

[Paul28]

Even with a DSB, I firmly believe you will have all of the same problems as any other tank, just one more thing that can go wrong. It is not the magic solution.

Yep 100% right

[Big_Pun]

That's why the tank is still at Ben's and will stay there till it's payed off then to forever pets to get fixed right like it should have been done the first time,and it ain't leaving till it holds water for a week with no leaks.

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oh god you dont even have the tank smh

[Reef Swimmer]

No I don't but I'm reading up n what I want in the tank and what I want for the tank. In other words I'm making a plan.

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[Reef Swimmer]

Nice vid Paul I like it and that what I'm shooting for.

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[KING]

Have u got with forever pets about ur plans..lol..They well fix the tank the same as b4..an unless they changed things..They wont water test it...or let u...But good luck...

[Reef Swimmer]

Then I'll find a new place that will do it. Cause from what I have heard they suck.

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[Big_Pun]

Then I'll find a new place that will do it. Cause from what I have heard they suck.

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there isnt another place

[rrasco]

Yeah, that's kind of the dilemma with that.

[Reef Swimmer]

Not even in Austin

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[alton]

http://www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com/archives/vol_7/issue26/pages/14.htm

Hopefully the link works? Contact her on Reef Central, her username is Tipou I think? I have always thought of it. Finding the right silicone will be key, plus if it were my tank I would add a euro style brace all the way around the tank about 3" wide for safety sake

[alton]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1698691&highlight=tipou

Try this link

[Reef Swimmer]

I found a place in Austin that can reseal the tank. Forever pets can take a hike. They won't touch this tank or any of my tanks for that matter.

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[kkiel02]

From what I've learned from ping back when he frequented the site.

You want at least 6" with no rock, macro, coral or anything in the section.

You want super high flow over the top of the dsb so detritus doesn't settle in or on the sand.

Over time the water slowly seeps through the sand in the anaerobic zones which is how you get your denitrification.

I would also set it up so where you can get the best flow throughout the whole sand bed.

I have not had the opportunity to set up a dedicated dsb as I have tried a refugium and algae turf scrubber when I would have had room.

[jroescher]

I learned the hard way about putting rock into a deep bed. It's permanent. You can't move or adjust it all without releasing a torrent of problems. I can't explain why, but over time my rock slowly moved. I ended up with rock too close to the glass to clean and couldn't move it back with pulling up everything from deep in the sand.

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[ramsey]

Like I mentioned before, a lot of people run them remotely. That way, if it does cause problems, it can be removed. If I were going to set one up it would be detached from my display and even my sump so it could be disconnected.

[Scutterborn]

My DSB is remote. While not truly remote, it is in the sump. The big danger is when the DT contains the DSB and you lose power. It'll suck the oxygen out of the tank at a much higher rate and would require a series of contingency plans in place to counteract the O2 depletion.


- Ben -

[kkiel02]

Plus you won't get flow under all the rock and corals. Then the whole detritus thing comes into play as well. I have a 40 gallon that I would have used. I would have had my drain go into that tank with a power head then that would have fed my sump then I would have the return pump it back to the display. But this never was made. I'm actually thinking about making a ats again to get my current problem(cyano) out of the display.

[LuckySingh]

My new build is going to be bare bottom display with specially designed sump to run semi remote sand bed . Deep sand beds does not have long term success rate but thab again its depends upon what are trying to achieve in ur tank and tank inhabitants. Sps are more better without sand beds but lps and various fishes loves sand bed . Propet husbandry is another key . Dsb vs shallow comes with different husbandry routines . Also deep sand beds means deep deep sand bed I guess it needs to be around 6" to get it work over the time as it matures . Ristriced flow in deep sand bed can accumulate a lot of detritus around the rock and other dead areas which needs to be removed manually . Personally I think that's a lot of work vs shalllow bed less time consuming more flow a bit less time taking in cleaning and removing detritus.

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[Reef Swimmer]

After watching new york steelo and how he did his dsb i like it. I want all the critters a dsb comes with. As far as the tock work goes im going to put the rocks in first then add a 4 in sand bed and add the water last. That way the rocks dont move and the fish can't collapse them. If not that then i wont have any sand sifters other than a watchman goby and a pistol shrimp and im looking at getting a yasa goby and a candy striped pistol shrimp. Ill have some narsariss snail and some other snail but not one turbo.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

i like dsb. It does take a long time to get them established.

[Reef Swimmer]

Yeah I'm expecting at least 3 to 4 month's before I put any fish or coral in. That's why I'll have my 33 long to watch and it will stay up when the 185 is ready.

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[BBQHILLBILLY]

stay on top of your nitrates and test, dsbs take a year maybe more maybe less, the older the dsb the better, make sure your testing

[BBQHILLBILLY]

heres a link i pulled. My sand is not big enough for a dsb. But this is what my 180rr looks like at this stage.

source http://www.reef-eden.net/DSBs.htm

http://www.reef-eden.net/Sis%20DSB2.jpg

[BBQHILLBILLY]

here 2 actual pics of a young sand bed on my 180rr

[kkiel02]

I would be very hesitant doing it in my display as I said earlier. You don't want to disturb a dsb as then you will be starting over every time. You just hear all these horror stories of people doing them in their display and that's the reason I feel dsb have such a bad rep. They shouldn't be any more maintenance or have a short life span if built correctly. Every reefer builds his tank different though so maybe it will work for you.

[ramsey]

It sounds to me that you already made up your mind before you posted. Do it and see how it works out for you if you've already made up your mind. DSB's are going to get even more varied opinions than the light topic.

[Reef Swimmer]

Yeah I know. I like the look of them and all the critters they have. To me All the worms and stuff clean the sand better than we could ever do our selves. You just have to give it time to establish its self and then slowly add the fish and corals you want. I want a miniature ocean in my tank. Critters and all.

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[Reef Swimmer]

I think I'm just going to run mm in my sump. Too many questions on running a dsb and too many things that can spell doom for my tank.

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[jcnkt_ellis]

You may want to consider scrapping the idea all together then, sump based DSBs never caught on because majority of people do not have enough surface area in their sump for the DSB to actually do its job and reduce nitrates in the tank. Anecdotally, I ran a 4" DSB in my 150 gallon, tall setup for two years before tearing it down for other reasons and I never had issues with the bed or with nitrates in the tank. If you want more info on how I set mine up feel free to PM me.

[Reef Swimmer]

Ok will do. Thanks.

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[350gt]

Ive had my tank up and running with a 2-3" sand bed, a little thicker in some spots, for 3 years and going with only one bump in the road around the 2nd year. Had a little cyano bloom and stuff started dying, but a little chemi clean and bumped up water changes and all is bouncing back.

I personally believe timely water changes is a big key to success in this hobby.. Once you fall behind, you have to battle your way back.... Most just give up...

[Reef Swimmer]

Yeah I was doing 15 gallon water changes once a week and I stopped for 3 weeks and my tank looks like thing are living but not very happy at all. I did a water change a few days ago and i also had to clean my return pump to get the flow back up and things on the up up. I did notice that when I took out 3 big pieces of lr the tank started to look bad so I haven't been feeding as much so the nitrates don't go up. I'm just waiting for the 33 to be ready so I can switch things over.

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