Breeding Mandarin Dragonets first go

[Mr Cob]

We just got a pair of breeding Blue Mandarin Dragonets (we bought them as "Red" but they look like blues) (Synchiropus splendidus)

The female is about 2" and the Male is a big papa at around 4". Opposite of clownfish.. the male gets to be the big dominant one with these fish.



http://youtu.be/RGr0GqsSSXM

I'm going to use this thread to document our progress on breeding them. At the moment we are pretty clueless but thanks to google, all the information we need is a search away. We have started researching a bit but our first priority is beefing them up! Priority one: FOOD!

The plan is to keep a steady supply of live pods while trying to get them on frozen. I'm adding live rotifers each time I add frozen. Also using a Wet Acrylic seahorse trough for introducing frozen foods. I'm feeding in the same location each time and turning pumps off right before feeding. I'm hoping that once the pumps go off they will begin to recognize that as feeding time and head over to the trough.

Anyways, chime in if you have any info to share :) or questions.

[slm222]

If you breed them I'll take one.

ive read of people using breeding nets to teach them to feed on frozen. You keep the pumps on and put the live food in there and it pushes it against the back wall. Then you slowly mix in frozen with live and then all frozen.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks, Stephen.

We are off to a great start so far. After about 8 tries over the last 2 days, big papa is eating frozen brine shrimp from the seahorse trough! The female is also eating but has not gone into the trough yet. She stays near by and picks off the stuff that the male stirs up out of the trough.




http://youtu.be/OEWkZyMUBUc

[Dean]

Those fish are so much fun to watch. Very calculated hunters. Good luck with your new venture Rob, I will be following along.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks dude. Appreciate it. Really enjoying this pair.


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/10710292413_ed11874a4c_c.jpg



The male perched up and waiting for food lol
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7438/10710141366_0e701e9300_c.jpg

[CoryDude]

I love that last pic, Rob. Please keep us posted. A mandarin was the fish that got me into this hobby almost 20 years ago.

[Scutterborn]

I'm definitely tagging along with this ride!

Cory, this same species is what pushed me to this side as well. I got very lucky and this was the second SW fish I ever purchased ( after my damsel ) is still well and kicking!


-Ben-

[Mr Cob]

Thanks guys...

The female went in the trough for the first time today and pecked at some frozen brine. :)

I caught this shot from outside the room. Once she saw me she headed out of the trough.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3702/10733781976_d8b5f5ceda_z.jpg



http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5490/10733783706_a454f9cd1d_z.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10733789694_57c01a9593_z.jpg



Video of the female swimming around:

http://youtu.be/dgZC6pfZ4L8

[Mr Cob]

Someone mentioned on another forum that they look green versus Red. I purchased them as "Red" but have thought they look green as well from the pics. My light over the tank is a wavepoint LED and makes everything look very blue. In person they look like reds. Once I feel they are settled in and nice and fat I will pull them out and take some better shots to determine if they really are Red or Green. I also plan to purchase another pair for reference.



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[Mr Cob]

This is what mine look like:
http://www.liverocknreef.com/liverock/index.php?l=product_detail&p=9061

http://www.liverocknreef.com/liverock/images/products/large_9061_1a_Mandarinfish2.jpg

[Mr Cob]

The person I got them from said they originally came from ORA. I'm uncertain if these were ORA offspring or if they were a wild caught pair that they used in their broodstock.
I think they are most likely Blue Mandarins and wild caught because the male has a bent spike on the front dorsal fin:
http://www.orafarm.com/products/fish/dragonets/blue-mandarin/
http://www.orafarm.com/images/products/fish/dragonets/bluemandarin_lg.jpg

[Mr Cob]

At the moment the pair is in a 10g tank with heater, rigid airline, HOB biological power filter with active carbon, live rock, macro algae and hair algae... loaded with pods. I also have two additional HOB filters running that I stripped the filter media out and added live rock rubble to cultivate pod colonies and act as a cryptic fuge. In addition I also add live rotifers each night and a few drops of phyto.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3767/10748538073_35b980e0b2_z.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/10748317696_c58c6fa85f_z.jpg


Currently doing small 1/2-1gallon water changes each evening.
SG: 1.020
Temp: 79

[Scuba Sam]

Awesome! I have been looking for some tank raised ones if you get offspring that eat frozen id gladly pick them up!

[ClamFan]

At the moment the pair is in a 10g tank with heater, rigid airline, HOB biological power filter with active carbon, live rock, macro algae and hair algae... loaded with pods. I also have two additional HOB filters running that I stripped the filter media out and added live rock rubble to cultivate pod colonies and act as a cryptic fuge. In addition I also add live rotifers each night and a few drops of phyto.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3767/10748538073_35b980e0b2_z.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/10748317696_c58c6fa85f_z.jpg


Currently doing small 1/2-1gallon water changes each evening.
SG: 1.020
Temp: 79

Gonna have to use your idea with the power filter. Now my wife wants one of your mandarins. Cant wait till you have your first babies. Hope it all goes well.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks! The power filters are great for HOB fuges when a sump is not an option. I ran a couple large dual filters on a 100g back in the day. I put a light over one and kept the other as a cryptic fuge. From time to time you can see a pod or two come out of the overflow. lol, kind of like a fish feeder for live foods.

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[pfcreed]

do you think i can keep a spotted mandarine and a blue mandarine together. ive had a spotted mandarine for over a year now and i think hes lonely.

[Mr Cob]

pfcreed... as long as you have a male and a female you might be able to keep both.


The female spends most of her time in the trough now, just waiting for food. lol

http://youtu.be/AjTkmpQygRA

[allan]

You leave the trough in there all the time? Does it pick up sediment or does the mandarin stir it up periodically?

[Mr Cob]

You leave the trough in there all the time? Does it pick up sediment or does the mandarin stir it up periodically?

I do leave in there 24-7. It's directly under one of the pod filters so with the constant flow hitting it there is no chance for detritus to build up in it.

I turn the filters off when feeding in the trough.


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[joelb]

Im following along here Rob. the 2 clowns i got from you are doing excellent and i would definitely purchase a tank raised mandarin from you.. does anyone else find that trough hilarious or is it just me? i want a seahorse now just so i can have a trough in my tank

[Flyride95]

hey I'm tagging along on this one as well. I love this fish!

[Mr Cob]

Sad news. The large male died.

I'm scratching my head on this one. He was eating frozen and I'm loaded on pods in the tank. From my limited knowledge on pods I can see what look to be isopods and tiger pods in abundance. Amphipods (the big ones) are also in the tank but I don't see a lot of them.

I also did daily 5-10% water changes with matching parameters.

Signs of his decline: A couple days ago he stopped eating and would not go to the trough during feeding time. His body also began to look "cloudy" or pale and in a matter of a couple of days his skeleton was showing...looked like he was starving to death.

I cannot imagine that he starved in my care since he was eating frozen and I have only had him for a week or so. Only thing I can think of is some sort of internal parasite l.

Worth noting that I also ran a small UV on this system. Was no real threat to the pod population as I have pod propagation HOB filters loaded. I also dose live pods and rotifers daily.

The female is doing well and is getting fat. She eats from the trough and feeds on pods all day.

Moving forward I plan to find another 4"+ male as I know females prefer larger males.

I also plan to utilize one of the larger stalls in my 110 for the pair, which is equivalent to about 40g of water area. This section does not have powerheads and is the first section from the return pump. Lots of liverock and I can still feed with the trough easily.

The 110 will be a better solution to support their mating dance which a 10g might not support very well. I read they need vertical space for this.

This is on the back burner for now, until I find another male.



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[Dean]

Sorry to hear about your set back Rob. It sounds like he was in trouble before he was in your care.

[OrionN]

A 4+ inches got to be a huge, and old male. You may not want to get one that large again. He may have died of old age.
From personal experiences, I got a large female that beat up a smaller male. She paired up fine with a larger male. I would get a male that is a little larger than the female, but recommend that you avoid extremely large male.
Good luck.

[Oilers7134]

Not to high jack but I have a large male if anyone is interested.

[Mr Cob]

Can you pm me some info about him oilers? Thanks.

Thanks for chiming in Minh. You are probably right but I cannot overlook the ease in pairing fish when the sizes are drastic... same with clownfish.

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[Oilers7134]

Pm sent.

[OrionN]

It is really easy to pair them. Two males will fight. As long as the male is larger, you should have no problem what so ever. They just ignore each other until mating time.

[Mr Cob]

That's good to know Minh. Thank you.

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[Bill S]

Rob, I'll agree with Minh. Might have been old, and likely came in with parasites.

It happens all of the time.

[Mr Cob]

Still pursuing this effort.

Tonight we were blessed with a female wild caught mandarin from Jeremy. Thanks dude!

Unfortunately though the little woman is half starved.. not Jeremy's fault obviously as the fish just came in. I'm very disappointed that a wholesaler would ship a fish that is all bones. Whoever picked this fish up for Jeremy should definitely complain to the vendor. Fish labeled as "t/r" or "tank raised" are NOT captive bred. They are wild caught fish that are held for a short time in "growout" and then tagged with "tank raised" which most people mistake as "captive bred".

I'm very happy that we culture copepods and live rotifers as we may be able to beef her back up.

Here's a vid of her in a pod bath...

http://youtu.be/9skjKrZQ2JM


pic in the pod bath...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/11865867276_5a9c31b16d_z.jpg


Her stall loaded with amphipods, isopods and copepods...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2806/11865307093_0ecb6ee5b5_z.jpg


Here is the male and his stall (he is also wild caught)...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2837/11865862346_e65128f109_z.jpg


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3738/11865003325_eb7ee0b2e3_z.jpg


I will put them together once the female is healthy and fat and they get comfortable with one another through the clear divider.

[ClamFan]

Very nice! Cant wait to hear how things go!