austin aquarium

[polarbear]

So I was excited when I first heard about an aquarium coming to Austin. However, after reading these articles I am having second thoughts about going. I’m not sure why it got to me but after reading past articles about how much the aquarium (fish and coral) trade has gone through and about how they are trying to regulate everything now days, you would think that a professional trying to open an aquarium would know better. What do you guys think of this?



http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/austin-aquariums-owners-face-code-violations-feder/nZTgs/

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/owners-say-guilty-plea-wont-stop-austin-aquarium/nZTrX/

[jrossjr79]

I dont think I could go there with a clear mind :(

[Big_Pun]

i will not be going! the owners have been in trouble for all kinds of shady illegal collections. this is a pure for profit aquarium so il will give them my money.

[Sherita]

I won't support them. With their history of animal deaths, they apparently only care about one thing, and it isn't the livestock!

[polarbear]

Ya I hate places that open up just to make profit. Yes I know that when you open a business you expect to make money but it shouldn’t be all about that. The brothers that are trying to open this up are young and lack professionalism.

Even just this statement bothers me:
In a statement, Vince Covino said,”The death log submitted appears to be fabricated, or to be skewed by such deaths as dozens of snails, baby feeder fish, and others.

[Sherita]

A life is a life. It's not to be devalued just because it's a snail, or feeder fish. I can't be the only person out there who will carefully inspect live rock to remove all snails and crabs before drying it out.

The flippant attitude that this Vince guy has just turns my stomach. He's going to do what he wants, no matter what dies in the process. I'll keep my coin, and use it for something else.

[polarbear]

Now I really hate these brothers. I found this article while doing some research on the brothers. It seems that they have opened an aquarium every year since 2011. These guys don’t even have degrees in marine biology or aquarium sciences of any kind. I think that would be a big red flag when trying to run an aquarium.

http://www.examiner.com/article/portland-aquarium-claims-200-deaths-3-months-time

http://www.examiner.com/article/oregon-humane-society-investigating-marine-animal-deaths-at-portland-aquarium

http://www.examiner.com/article/portland-aquarium-is-hot-water-over-news-of-massive-loss-of-marine-life

[polarbear]

You're not the only one. I do this to my filter soaks when changing them out to save pods and small snails that get trapped in there.


A life is a life. It's not to be devalued just because it's a snail, or feeder fish. I can't be the only person out there who will carefully inspect live rock to remove all snails and crabs before drying it out.

The flippant attitude that this Vince guy has just turns my stomach. He's going to do what he wants, no matter what dies in the process. I'll keep my coin, and use it for something else.

[polarbear]

This might explain why they have so many deaths.

Steve Blair, a 25-year veteran with marine aquariums, including being curator of the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach, directed the installation of the Portland Aquarium, but left just days before its opening. He declined to discuss the details of his departure due to a confidentiality agreement he signed with Covino.

Corcoran, the vet who left the aquarium, explained it as Blair and Covino arguing about animal safety. Covino says Blair just wasn’t the right fit.
Shane Dietz, ex Petco employee with 20 years of experience setting up and maintaining aquarium tanks has taken Blair’s place. His explanation for the deaths is that 98% of the deaths of marine life are caused by transportation, and they can’t do anything about it, and places the blame on the distance animals have to be shipped.

He also said that they obtain crabs and cold water fish from fish markets because they don’t have a permit from Oregon Fish and Wildlife. Those animals are caught as food and mistreated, and sometimes the Aquarium just can’t bring them back from the brink of death.

[rrasco]

I'm surprised the aquarium has even moved forward at all. I remember reading about these guys earlier this year, or maybe last year, when they were being indicted on the illegal trading activity.

[jrossjr79]

wow, so unprofessional with the lack of care into their livestock. If it was me opening these aquariums up, yes I would want to make a profit, but not at the cost of the livestock, and then simply refusing any ideas of marine safety from a guy who has an education in that field.

What a shame, and I hope they find him guilty and then go after his brother as well.

[350gt]

If it is worth seeing.........


i might check it out........


we've all made mistakes at one point in our lives..

[polarbear]

I understand we have all made mistakes but you would think they would have figured things out all ready. Its not like they made one mistake then fixed it. I mean come on they own 2 aquariums already and are still getting into trouble trying to build the third one. Also, I didnt post this in hopes of keeping people from visiting. Just wanted to share.


If it is worth seeing.........


i might check it out........


we've all made mistakes at one point in our lives..

[350gt]

Well they apparently are doing something right if the city of austin is still allowing them to open up.....

[polarbear]

That’s not saying much.....

I’m not sure by what I have read that they are allowing them to open up still. They will be doing some follow up investigating to see if they get the right permits in place. Just because the brothers say they are still on track to open up doesn’t mean they will.

[350gt]

Ahh, okay... I didnt bother reading the articles but i know who your speaking of. There was a thread awhile back.

I seriously doubt austin would let them open if they find any evidence, and if they dont would you go?....

[polarbear]

Well probably not seeing that the problems are with the brothers not knowing what they are doing as you can see from the other articles. Just because they get the right permits and get educated people working at the Austin aquarium doesn’t mean they won’t have the same problems as their other aquariums. They failed to listen to experts before which caused problems for them. They are bound to do it again.

[350gt]

[QUOTE=polarbear;932585 They failed to listen to experts before which caused problems for them. They are bound to do it again.[/QUOTE]


plenty of reefers have those same issues... I know some shops that can. Be considered felons with as much livestock gets murdered weekly....... Wheres the uproar? We still support them too....

[350gt]

How many of us have frag tanks??.... iMO the hobby is lost when it gets to that point, its for profit at that point....

Cant tell me its for the livestock when we are making funds off of cutting corals...

[jrossjr79]

How many of us have frag tanks??.... iMO the hobby is lost when it gets to that point, its for profit at that point....

Cant tell me its for the livestock when we are making funds off of cutting corals...

Cutting Corals, if done responsible though is a good thing. The more people who frag out of their tanks, even if it is for profit, the better it is on our delicate ecosystem in the Ocean.

[polarbear]

I understand what you’re saying. I have killed a few fish and corals during my saltwater years but that’s different then opening up a huge aquarium to the public just to make a profit. If you’re going to open up an aquarium your first concern should be the animals not how cool the place can be and look to attract people. As for local fish stores, I don’t shop at stores that push you to buy something just so they can sell it. Trust me I have gone to plenty of stores in San Antonio and Austin (I use to live there) and asked about certain fish and corals that I already knew about just to see if they would try to sell it to me. That’s how I know if the people there care about the livestock. I don’t visit the stores that JUST try to sell me stuff.


plenty of reefers have those same issues... I know some shops that can. Be considered felons with as much livestock gets murdered weekly....... Wheres the uproar? We still support them too....

[polarbear]

I agree. Just becuase I sell a coral to another reefer doesnt mean Im doing it just for profit. I rather buy from fellow reefers becuase the corals and fish seem better.


Cutting Corals, if done responsible though is a good thing. The more people who frag out of their tanks, even if it is for profit, the better it is on our delicate ecosystem in the Ocean.

[350gt]

Cutting Corals, if done responsible though is a good thing. The more people who frag out of their tanks, even if it is for profit, the better it is on our delicate ecosystem in the Ocean.



My point was its main intention is profit!!.... And if you ever owned a frag tank, you have losses.... It just happens sometimes...


if it was for preservation, they would be given away for free.... Not sold per polyp:

oh and i have nothing wrong with buying frags from reefers, i just have issues with those who contradict themselves.... ;)

[350gt]

I understand what you’re saying. I have killed a few fish and corals during my saltwater years but that’s different then opening up a huge aquarium to the public just to make a profit. If you’re going to open up an aquarium your first concern should be the animals not how cool the place can be and look to attract people. As for local fish stores, I don’t shop at stores that push you to buy something just so they can sell it. Trust me I have gone to plenty of stores in San Antonio and Austin (I use to live there) and asked about certain fish and corals that I already knew about just to see if they would try to sell it to me. That’s how I know if the people there care about the livestock. I don’t visit the stores that JUST try to sell me stuff.

well i never believe what i read 100%... Articles are sometimes blown out of proportion to get readers... If the courts dont find nothing wrong with these guys, i dont see why anyone wouldnt visit.....

[polarbear]

I respect your opinions but please take the time to read the articles. Courts have found things wrong with these guys. Here is a passagefrom one of the articles. Why would he sign anything if he was innocent?

Ammon Covino recently signed a plea agreement, reversing the not-guilty plea heentered in April to purchasing spotted eagle rays and lemon sharks withoutnecessary permits, said Thomas Austin Watts-Fitzgerald, a lawyer with the U.S.attorney’s office in Florida. The animals were for aquariums that the Covinosrun in Idaho and Oregon.

[350gt]

As i respect yours.....

But if thats all the court has on him, i dont see it as a big deal... Where are all the dead animals?

Sometimes you sign stuff in court to take a lesser sentence... Even if you are semi guilty..... Believe me :/

[polarbear]

ok

[jrossjr79]

My point was its main intention is profit!!.... And if you ever owned a frag tank, you have losses.... It just happens sometimes...


if it was for preservation, they would be given away for free.... Not sold per polyp:

oh and i have nothing wrong with buying frags from reefers, i just have issues with those who contradict themselves.... ;)

True I dont have a frag tank, but yes there will be losses, and sometimes there is or was nothing you can do about it. But a Marine Biologist had mention most of those deaths could have been prevented through proper care and QT procedures. These two brothers totally ignored this biologist's recommendations. SO to me this is pure profit on their mind and not about the care needed for these creatures. It be one thing if they are trying to make a profit and at the same time taking care of their livestock, they are cutting cost as much as they can with out any care in the world the outcome it would be to their livestock.

Giving away for free is near impossible, unless you can afford the care of such creatures with out breaking the bank. Takes time, and money to keep livestock healthy. Most hobbyist that have frag tanks are not making any profit, they are just less denting the expenses in their pockets. Not saying there are those out there that dont make a profit.

But to take it out of context and put into another, Our food is a neccisty, which cost money. Rather it is to grow our foods and harvest, or to raise an animal and slaughter it. You are paying for a service provided so you can eat.

[jrossjr79]

Oh and I might add I respect both Chris and Mitchell's opionions as well.

[350gt]

Okay i read some of the article.....

guy is still innocent till proven guilty...... Lets just see what happens..

[350gt]

True I dont have a frag tank, but yes there will be losses, and sometimes there is or was nothing you can do about it. But a Marine Biologist had mention most of those deaths could have been prevented through proper care and QT procedures. These two brothers totally ignored this biologist's recommendations. SO to me this is pure profit on their mind and not about the care needed for these creatures. It be one thing if they are trying to make a profit and at the same time taking care of their livestock, they are cutting cost as much as they can with out any care in the world the outcome it would be to their livestock.

Giving away for free is near impossible, unless you can afford the care of such creatures with out breaking the bank. Takes time, and money to keep livestock healthy. Most hobbyist that have frag tanks are not making any profit, they are just less denting the expenses in their pockets. Not saying there are those out there that dont make a profit.

But to take it out of context and put into another, Our food is a neccisty, which cost money. Rather it is to grow our foods and harvest, or to raise an animal and slaughter it. You are paying for a service provided so you can eat.


If there is nothing wrong with profit from a small time fragger or shop, why should there be with these brothers making some??.... Sea world profits, there whole goal is profit..

[jrossjr79]

If there is nothing wrong with profit from a small time fragger or shop, why should there be with these brothers making some??.... Sea world profits, there whole goal is profit..

Im not saying there is anything wrong with Aquariums making money, I am simply pointing out how they go about it, which is with out the care that their livestock needs. Also not saying that small time fraggers or LFS are doing everything right, I know there are quite a number of those that just look at profit gain and not the well being of said livestock. Making money is not a problem, taking good care of livestock is not a problem. But taking a profit while not taking proper care of said livestock is something wrong.

[350gt]

All of which has yet to be proven..... If it was or is, they will not open and their established aquariums will be closed.....

[jrossjr79]

guess we will have to wait to see what happens

[350gt]

Ya, i doubt it will open with those kind of alligations.... But money talks, so lets see....


idk but i couldnt resist if it is truley a "state of the art aquarium"...... I would have to visit once ;)

[jrossjr79]

Ya, i doubt it will open with those kind of alligations.... But money talks, so lets see....


idk but i couldnt resist if it is truley a "state of the art aquarium"...... I would have to visit once ;)

lol, that part is the irresistable part, :)

[Reef Swimmer]

Not going!! I lost my first fish which was a sailfin blenny and I felt sad from that. These guys have no soul for what they are killing. No, I'd rather drive to CC to the aquarium there then spend money in Austin at that aquarium where they don't care about the animals and fish.

[350gt]

Where does it say they dont care about animals?

News report....


http://youtu.be/fWTGyZ7LIPw


Nothing about dead animals... If they did, Im sure PETA and other whacko groups would be all over it.

[polarbear]

You kidding right? You watched this video and you still think they are running a good business? It’s not all about the dead animals but also about the lack of permits and trying to get by laws. Didn’t you see where they asked for the permits and the guy working said, "ugh I don’t have that personally on hand right now". If they had permits wouldn’t he have said they had them and showed them? Shouldn’t they be at the aquarium? Also they are trying to get by obtaining the otters permit. If they wanted to do things right why not apply for it like they were told.

[Sherita]

This is the second time I've heard about these guys. The first was a while back. Same thing, dead livestock, bad procedures, know it all attitude. I'll pass.

[350gt]

You kidding right? You watched this video and you still think they are running a good business? It’s not all about the dead animals but also about the lack of permits and trying to get by laws. Didn’t you see where they asked for the permits and the guy working said, "ugh I don’t have that personally on hand right now". If they had permits wouldn’t he have said they had them and showed them? Shouldn’t they be at the aquarium? Also they are trying to get by obtaining the otters permit. If they wanted to do things right why not apply for it like they were told.


Dude at the shop he is at they dont need any permits for the animals they already have, look at it, its all common livestock that we can obtain..... He needs to apply for permits for the sharks and rays he was trying to acquire... If that was the case, the portland aquarium would be shut down.... You did see where he said the feds or whoever is free to come in and look around...... They apparently have nothing to hide there...

[polarbear]

I know they don't need permits for the fish but the way they are acting towards trying to buy sharks without permits and how they have t applied for the otters permit is what I'm talking about. Just the way they are trying to cut corners is not right.

[Sherita]

One of the brothers has pled guilty to illegally getting sharks and rays without the proper permits.

They are now offering refunds to anyone who bought a season pass.

And they still don't have permits for the construction end of the deal.

Yelp reviews for the Portland location are dismal.


Shady operations at best. They aren't even open yet and they are all over the news, and not in a good way either.

[350gt]

I know they don't need permits for the fish but the way they are acting towards trying to buy sharks without permits and how they have t applied for the otters permit is what I'm talking about. Just the way they are trying to cut corners is not right.

But whats all this about killling livestock.....?

A few on here have mentioned thats a reason they would not go...... So where is the evidence or even a accusation?

[350gt]

Just saying...... We all make mistakes and not pulling a permit IMO isnt a huge crime, but the FEDS say otherwise.... He has 12-15 marine biologist employed in portland, you think they would really sit around and let animals die...... Only reason one becomes MB is cause of the love with the animals.....


idk, guess im not quick to judge ppl, especially off of yelp reviews....

[Big_Pun]

<#

[polarbear]

http://www.examiner.com/article/oregon-humane-society-investigating-marine-animal-deaths-at-portland-aquarium


But whats all this about killling livestock.....?

A few on here have mentioned thats a reason they would not go...... So where is the evidence or even a accusation?

[Sherita]

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

The supposed disgruntled employee was their on site veterinarian. The owners responses are quite telling. They are being investigated in Boise ID, Portland OR, and now Austin Tx. Once might be a mistake, two could be a coincidence, but three is a pattern.

[350gt]

http://www.examiner.com/article/oregon-humane-society-investigating-marine-animal-deaths-at-portland-aquarium


****, must of missed that link......

lol i retract all my previous statements..... Hahaha...

Well lets wait and see what they find..... I still say innocent till proven guilty... And yes even if you plead guilty you still have to be PROVEN guilty....

[350gt]

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

The supposed disgruntled employee was their on site veterinarian. The owners responses are quite telling. They are being investigated in Boise ID, Portland OR, and now Austin Tx. Once might be a mistake, two could be a coincidence, but three is a pattern.


So if they are found not guilty on all charges..... Will you go?.

remember they are just being investigated in the livestock deaths....... A disgruntled employee can say alot of things.

[Big_Pun]

So if they are found not guilty on all charges..... Will you go?.

remember they are just being investigated in the livestock deaths....... A disgruntled employee can say alot of things.

nope

[350gt]

Lol..... Chris will go on the downlow...

[Sherita]

So if they are found not guilty on all charges..... Will you go?.

remember they are just being investigated in the livestock deaths....... A disgruntled employee can say alot of things.

Nope. One of them is far past the investigation stage. If a person can get a good enough lawyer, one can get away with many things. And the disgruntled employee is not some high school kid flapping his lips. You don't get investigated in three states just on coincidence. I'll spend my money elsewhere, in accredited aquariums, where there has been no allegations, no confessions of guilt, and no list of dead animals.

[Big_Pun]

Lol..... Chris will go on the downlow...

no desire to pay to see a crappy reef!

[350gt]

Lol, ya i saw the videos on youtube....

looks like a fish store......

[Big_Pun]

Lol, ya i saw the videos on youtube....

looks like a fish store......

lol my thoughts exactly! real cheesy

[350gt]

Well they said "state of the art" in austin...

i will check it out if it is "state of the art".....

lol, you never know what kind of establishment you support.. I think there is far more to worry about in this world, just my 2 pennies.....

[polarbear]

+1 here. Plus nothing will compare to the georgia aquarium. I visited this aquarium about 3 years ago and I feel in love with the place. I even did the behind the scenes tour.


Nope. One of them is far past the investigation stage. If a person can get a good enough lawyer, one can get away with many things. And the disgruntled employee is not some high school kid flapping his lips. You don't get investigated in three states just on coincidence. I'll spend my money elsewhere, in accredited aquariums, where there has been no allegations, no confessions of guilt, and no list of dead animals.