My montipora look bad....opinions needed.

[mkengr45]

Title pretty much sums it up. I have several montipora that are not extending polyps (Tyree seasons greetings, Poker Stars monti, Superman, and a few other digis and caps).

I'll cut to the chase and post parameters and environment.

144 half circle...predominantly SPS with a few LPS
3 AI Sols, 6 Panorama Pros
Weekly water changes using "Salinity" salt
GHL Profilux IIIex controlled
Three dosing pumps (alk, Ca, Mg)
SG is 1.0253
PH 8.1-8.35 (plotted over the last 3 months)
Alk is ~10
Ca is ~440

No changes or anything like that....all the typical stuff you test for looks perfect so throw me a curve or something out of the ordinary to check. I feed Rods everything, I have grounding probes, I measure everything, but my montis look bad....all other SPS are fine.

[CoryDude]

Any chance it could be pest related? I had Monti eating nudi's and they went to town on all my monti's.

[hobogato]

what about pH or alk swing daily. test in the morning and in the evening to see what it is doing in the short term. montis are pretty sensitive to short swings IME.

[mkengr45]

I have looked for monti eating nudibranch since that was my first thought, but I don't see anything at all.

Ace,
I plotted the pH from my GHL Profilix and it is 8.1-8.35 consistently over the past 3 months. ALK is also pretty consistent between 9.9 and 10.1.

I'm pretty anal when it comes to instrumentation measurement and documentation. I plot temp, salinity, and pH each week, I use Hanna digital meters for Alk, PO4, and Ca twice a week and write down readings in my log-book. It's going to have to be something weird because I keep a close eye on all the usual stuff. I do data acquisition and controls stuff for my job so I'm sorta a nerd when it comes to measurement and instrumentation...but I'm always game to learn something new.

Thoughts? Been doing this reef stuff for 13 years but still hoping to learn....someone flip the light switch in my head please.

Randy

[hobogato]

gotcha, i wasnt sure if you were taking readings at the same time every day or varying your readings at different times. definitely a head scratcher...

[mkengr45]

Anyone think that my alk may be a bit high? I'm really hoping to learn what the problem is. I do a 15 gallon water change and I'll think they look better....but I think it is in my head. I can show graphs of salinity, pH, temp, PO4, Alk, versus time if that helps...but I can tell you nothing looks out of the ordinary.

I do have a ridiculous amount of Asyerina starfish in the tank, anyone had a problem with that in the past? I have zero flatworms or funky nudibranch, the tank is pretty much perfect which makes this so much more difficult to diagnose.

It is not a localized phenomena, but it is only montipora.

Someone school me please...

[mkengr45]

gotcha, i wasnt sure if you were taking readings at the same time every day or varying your readings at different time. definitely a head scratcher...
I hear ya man...I'm beating my head against the wall trying to figure this out. As a person I'm a creature of habit and I operate my tanks the same way, I don't change much, and if I do I do it crazy slow. Flow, lighting, water chemistry, and inhabitants have not changed for a loooong time. I'm at a loss! Tank is still beautiful, but my montis are not as nice as they were a few months ago.

[hobogato]

hmm... the only chemistry test i dont see is magnesium, but that is probably ok since your alk and calc are ok. you may want to check it just to be sure tho.

[mkengr45]

hmm... the only chemistry test i dont see is magnesium, but that is probably ok since your alk and calc are ok. you may want to check it just to be sure tho.

1350

[mkengr45]

Pretty much anything you can test for and adjust has been automated and optimized for consistency. I program PLC all the time...my GHL Profilix dosing is setup in such a way as to yield the flattest ph curve possible. Lots of nerd stuff in the works here. In the back of my head I am questioning potassium which I don't typically test for, but I have doubts that it would cause what I am seeing. Nothing is on the verge of death, it just doesn't look like I know it should.

My RO system is putting put zero TDS like normal. I have stuck to my usual routine on replacing GFO and ROX8 Carbon. Folks, I haven't changed squat!

[jcnkt_ellis]

I have asyerina stars in my tank and they do like to crawl on top of my monti caps occasionally but they've never harmed them...

[hobogato]

what about fish or other inverts, any potential nippers there?

[FireWater]

Just montis randy? All other sps look ok?

[mkengr45]

No nippers...anyone who has hung out over here knows that I kinda have an explosive temper towards any critter that misbehaves in the tank. I tend to get wildly furious if I see something screwing with the balance of the system.

John,
all other sps are 100% perfect. Acro, milli, you name it and it is good. I can't even throw out a ballpark number for how many sps are in the tank.

Lets put it this way, the tank is a 144 half circle and is 90% sps and you could not fit a baseball size coral anywhere without touching another sps if your life depended on it. The tank is now truly infested.

One observation:
I have a sunset monti that looks just perfect. I have a piece of tonga branch that is about 14" long, on one end is an encrusted rainbow monti that looks textbook perfect, the other end is encrusted with superman monti that is mostly retracted.

I reduced flow and lighting this week by 8% just to see if it helps. My tank is setup to have a lightning and thunderstorm every other day. During these stormy days lighting dims, flow is a little wild, and lightning happens for about an hour or so...but this has always happened.

Please, someone point out what the heck I am missing and I will be happy to treat you and your family or whoever to unlimited outstanding barbeque and the best adult beverages you can buy.

On a personal level it's annoying that I can't narrow it down to the problem....this is just proof that no matter how long you have been in the hobby and no matter how much you think you know there will always be stuff you can not figure out without the help of others.

Randy

[MadReefer]

man i had the Same thing happen to me a year ago. lost a 14" monti cap. i ended up with a 1 inch frag in the end... i hope you get this figured out quickly. hey, what about lighting changes? i only push about 150 par on mine and thats the extent of its lighting needs. when i exceeded that, it started receeding. so went back to 150.

[mkengr45]

man i had the Same thing happen to me a year ago. lost a 14" monti cap. i ended up with a 1 inch frag in the end... i hope you get this figured out quickly. hey, what about lighting changes? i only push about 150 par on mine and thats the extent of its lighting needs. when i exceeded that, it started receeding. so went back to 150.
I didn't change anything with lighting. I have not tested par, but I typically try and stay on the low side when it comes to lighting intensity and duration. I run a fairly mild photoperiod. In my experience I've learned that you can do far more damage with too much lighting as opposed to too little lighting. The best coloration I've ever seen was on an "old timers" tank that ran a staggering short photoperiod with a couple 250w metal halides.

If this problem continues I may pull off the AI LEDs and go back to MH. I have a few ballast, reflectors, and a variety pack of brand new 250w MH bulbs (megachrome, radium, XM).

[FireWater]

But, if it were the LEDs don't you think you would have issues with all sps?

I'm smacking my head with you trying to think of something.

[mkengr45]

But, if we're the LEDs don't you think you would have issues with all sps?

I'm smacking my head with you trying to think of something.
Man,

I don't think it has anything to do with lighting. If you are a believer in Hanna test meters I don't think it has squat to do with water chemistry either...at least with what I am measuring. All the typical stuff you would test for looks great.


There has to be something I am overlooking. What is it?

[FireWater]

I would love to joke around about it but I know how frustrating it is.

[FireWater]

Have you tried moving the affected ones to different locations? I've been thinking and googlin and reading. Nothing is popping up.

My best educated guess is they are showing stress for a reason. I'm sure they have been in the tank for a whole so I don't know why they would be showing it now.

Any cook loss or recession? Or is it just polyp recession? I would try different flow and /or lighting intensity or the affected ones and see if that helps any at all.

If you've already done this then I apologize for not coming up with something better.

[Big_Pun]

have you tried to dip stuff, I have some revive you can try?

[mkengr45]

Have you tried moving the affected ones to different locations? I've been thinking and googlin and reading. Nothing is popping up.

My best educated guess is they are showing stress for a reason. I'm sure they have been in the tank for a whole so I don't know why they would be showing it now.

Any cook loss or recession? Or is it just polyp recession? I would try different flow and /or lighting intensity or the affected ones and see if that helps any at all.

If you've already done this then I apologize for not coming up with something better.
Well John WTF,
Can't you just solve all my problems and make life easy! Kidding of course. I research things to death before I even post them here. They have stress, heck yeah! They have all been in the tank for a while. I have not added or changed anything. What am I missing here.

[FireWater]

Did you show the sticks more attention than the montis? Maybe it's a hissy fit. Try talking nice to them or buying them something they've been eyeing for a while

[mkengr45]

Did you show the sticks more attention than the montis? Maybe it's a hissy fit. Try talking nice to them or buying them something they've been eyeing for a while

Well I guess I better squeeze my chunky butt into something purdy and whisper sweet words into my sump cuz nothing else is solving my problems. Awe man, if this works, how do I explain it to my old lady.

I talk to my racecars before each run, now if I'm flirting with my corals...my old lady might have a legitimate case to lock my crazy butt up.

[ramsey]

What do your phosphates and nitrates look like? I didn't see anything about that. Are you doing any kind of carbon dosing or are you using GFO? I'd certainly be weird if this was the cause but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[mkengr45]

What do your phosphates and nitrates look like? I didn't see anything about that. Are you doing any kind of carbon dosing or are you using GFO? I'd certainly be weird if this was the cause but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Phosphate is zero (Hanna meter), nitrate is about zero. I use ROx8 carbon and BRS high capacity GFO, I use half the recommend dose.

[ramsey]

Could it be too little phosphates? I've heard of people having issues when being too aggressive removing phosphates. It might be something to look in to.

[Big_Pun]

Could it be too little phosphates? I've heard of people having issues when being too aggressive removing phosphates. It might be something to look in to.

very true Ramsey, I think carbon takes too much out especial they high grade stuff. I stop using carbon 7 months ago and I have no issues with water clarity

[mkengr45]

It's worth a shot...I'll remove some carbon and see if anything gets better

[ramsey]

Are you running anymore GFO than you normally do? Having no phosphates might mean you're using too much GFO. You may want to google it but I'm pretty sure I've heard of people having problems with using too much GFO. Good luck, I hope you get it figured out!

[ClamFan]

Could it be some kind of war between coral? Maybe one is too close to another and doesn't like it? All your readings seem good, can you even test for coral toxins? Just throwing it out there! It has been awhile since I have raised coral but I hate to hear of tank like yours having problems!!

[rocketeer]

I was thinking along the same line as Clamfan. Do you have a lot of softies nearby, or a galaxea?

Jack