Legislation could alter the hobby as we know it

[rrasco]

I saw this on another forum and followed it until I got a little more details. I truly believe this will have a severe impact on our hobby, as some of these items on the list are fairly common and we would no longer be able to sell or trade these items. Some are rare species nobody probably has, but some things like euphyllias are included on the list as well. It could also adversely effect aquaculture businesses.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k141/higorc/Hobbyinjeopardy_zpsd6952c5f.png

[Southern Flame]

That's bull I could understand endangered species but if they were aquacultured that's a whole diff ball park

[koa25]

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/invertebrates/corals.htm

[Big_Pun]

yea makes me sick so sick........:bareteeth:

[koa25]

go comment against it. Tell them how sick it makes you. :sick:

[Big_Pun]

i have i will keep till april 6

[rrasco]

Want to hear a not so funny story? RC is locking all threads relating to this and banning anyone who asks why. Pretty childish if you ask me.

[Big_Pun]

Want to hear a not so funny story? RC is locking all threads relating to this and banning anyone who asks why. Pretty childish if you ask me.


lol :wink_smile: thats crazy why would a forum do that .......

[jrossjr79]

From all the stories I hear about RC, (which I am a member, but I never post anything), RC in itself is pretty childish. But I will be making a comment against it, is there also a petition in works yet?

[rrasco]

I have my theories.

[Southern Flame]

lol :wink_smile: thats crazy why would a forum do that .......
Same reason I was kicked from one for "LOL'in" cause they can :mad:

[rrasco]

From all the stories I hear about RC, (which I am a member, but I never post anything), RC in itself is pretty childish. But I will be making a comment against it, is there also a petition in works yet?

It's a great community, for the most part, with a wealth of information and contributing members. It's the powers that be that make it hard on everyone. Banning contributing members and refusing to acknowledge anything. I mean, when one of your admins has a signature of "When you are a god, you don't worry about mortals" it's pretty easy to figure out how they really feel.

[jrossjr79]

It's a great community, for the most part, with a wealth of information and contributing members. It's the powers that be that make it hard on everyone. Banning contributing members and refusing to acknowledge anything. I mean, when one of your admins has a signature of "When you are a god, you don't worry about mortals" it's pretty easy to figure out how they really feel.


I agree it has a wealth of information, which is why I joined, I stay silent so I dont get my self banned. At times I have a very strong opinion, and to prove my side of the opinion I would argue with a brick wall, well that is what my mother said I always did anyway. SO it would be very quick I would get myself banned as well. But I keep silent so I can still access all the info, pics, links, etc.


I have already submitted my comment to the link above, still wanting to know if anyone knows of a petition site though.

[alton]

I posted the following on another website originally
The following is a list of links for something very similar, although not a fish or coral but the beautiful Oryx. This what happens when the government gets involved, common sense goes out the window and like the one link talks about it comes down to what a judge thinks

http://www.petersenshunting.com/2012...oryx-in-texas/

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ns-3453819.php

http://www.allaboutexotics.com/2010/...mpaign-update/

And that is what will happen, some will question it and then it goes to a liberal judge and he will not only agree to it but add so much more.

[rrasco]

Links didn't work Alton.

http://www.petersenshunting.com/2012/01/31/60-minutes-on-hunting-endangered-oryx-in-texas/
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Hunting-ban-could-see-last-of-unicorns-3453819.php
http://www.allaboutexotics.com/2010/04/save-the-species-campaign-update/

[Paul28]

So how mutch more will USA take till we take are country back from this government

[jrossjr79]

Sadly, alot more will be taken before the People as a whole will strike back to take the country back.

[ramsey]

Guys, let's not start a political discussion over this please. Let's keep it on topic and not make this a liberal vs conservative debate. That only leads to bickering. :)

[rocketeer]

From the NOAA site "•Submit a public comment online. Go to www.regulations.gov and enter NOAA-NMFS-2010-0036 into the keyword search.
"

This is what I wrote. You can use it as a template if you want. Or flame me if I said something wrong. Hurry.

My name is Jack Stensgaard and I have maintained a coral reef aquarium for over ten years. While I understand that controlling the number of corals taken from the wild may be a good idea, I am very troubled by the notion that aqua cultured corals shouldn't be traded or sold. Many of the named species have been successfully propagated my both professional and amateur aquarists. Private aquariums may be considered a valuable safe haven for many of these species of coral. Your rule may doom the stated species by eliminating thousands of successful habitats. It’s also worth stating that a citizen’s right to the pursuit of happiness should not be limited when aqua culturing corals has zero impact on natural reefs. Limit wild collections if you must, but please don’t force us to eliminate all of the coral that is already in captivity.

Jack

[ramsey]

Well said!

[Zack]

Submitted my comment which was the same as yours Jack with a bit added. I also attatched a picture of my 10 gallon in it's glory days before I lost a few zoa colonies.

My name is Zachary Guevara and I have maintained a coral reef aquarium for over four years. While I understand that controlling the number of corals taken from the wild may be a good idea, I am very troubled by the notion that aqua cultured corals shouldn't be traded or sold. Many of the named species have been successfully propagated my both professional and amateur aquarists. Private aquariums may be considered a valuable safe haven for many of these species of coral. Your rule may doom the stated species by eliminating thousands of successful habitats. It’s also worth stating that a citizen’s right to the pursuit of happiness should not be limited when aqua culturing corals has zero impact on natural reefs. Limit wild collections if you must, but please don’t force us to eliminate all of the coral that is already in captivity.


Please read this mission statement from an organization that I am a charter member in called MAAST, the Marine Aquarium Association of South Texas:


1. Encourage the growth of the marine aquarium hobby in South Texas


2. Educate and inform members and the public about care, keeping and propagation of marine invertebrates and fish


3. Prevent abuse to marine animals in general, and to conserve the marine environment by promoting intelligent, planned reef management systems


4. Promote higher standards of health and care provided by local commercial outlets


5. Organize workshops, seminars and discussions related to all aspects of the hobby


6. Raise and generate funds and create financial resources to meet these goals; and


7. Coordinate with and support similar societies devoted to like-minded interests.


We are not felons, we simply strive to provide safe havens for beautiful fish and corals that many of us acquire EXCLUSIVELY through aquacultured coral sources. Please do not take away the beautiful creatures we love so much and are so proud to display in our homes and offices.


Zack Guevara

[Scutterborn]

Well written, buddy. I only noticed one typo. It's a little one, though. :)


-Ben-

[jrossjr79]

How come I cant find my comment, I wanted to share what I posted as well :(

@ramsey, I apologize for the political comment :)

[alton]

Okay lets try this again

http://www.petersenshunting.com/2012/01/31/60-minutes-on-hunting-endangered-oryx-in-texas/

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Hunting-ban-could-see-last-of-unicorns-3453819.php

http://www.allaboutexotics.com/2010/04/save-the-species-campaign-update/

[FireWater]

said Friends of Animals President Priscilla Feral

I won't get into the long discussion of government interference or lack of in some cases. The funniest thing in the whole article was the fact that her last name is Feral. I laughed so hard it hurt when I read that.

[rocketeer]

Wow, they'd rather see the species extinct than managed in captivity by private individuals. Sad.

Jack

[FireWater]

It is amazing what some folks will get involved in and follow. Like I said, I won't get into a debate about the ethics or lack of. What I believe will not be the same as what the new t may believe in.

One of my favorite stories involves a friends at the time new girlfriend. She was a vegan and was totally against everything I did at that time. What I thought was funny was she would try to belittle me for hunting and fishing, but at the same time would wear leather shoes. How can you be a vegan and wear leather?


I hope the folks in charge will open their eyes and see what hypocrisy and idiocy really means. Another issue right now is the law that requires immediate destruction of unused oil platforms in the gulf. They do this by blowing up the rigs and sinking what they can't reuse. They do this to protect the wildlife in the ocean. Well, the funny part is the wildlife has made those rigs into reefs and live there. So in shirt they are doing more harm than good. Also, the US Fish and Wildlife shortened the snapper season due to what they called over fishing of the population. I forgot where I saw it, but I believe it was in the gulf around Alabama that they recorded one of these oil rigs being blasted. Guess what came floating to the surface? Yep, you guessed it, hundreds to thousands of red snapper. The very fish the government wants to protect they are killing by the boatload.

I could go on, but then I'll be doing exactly what I said I wouldn't. Off the soap box now.

[MadReefer]

From the NOAA site "•Submit a public comment online. Go to www.regulations.gov (http://www.regulations.gov) and enter NOAA-NMFS-2010-0036 into the keyword search.
"

This is what I wrote. You can use it as a template if you want. Or flame me if I said something wrong. Hurry.

My name is Jack Stensgaard and I have maintained a coral reef aquarium for over ten years. While I understand that controlling the number of corals taken from the wild may be a good idea, I am very troubled by the notion that aqua cultured corals shouldn't be traded or sold. Many of the named species have been successfully propagated my both professional and amateur aquarists. Private aquariums may be considered a valuable safe haven for many of these species of coral. Your rule may doom the stated species by eliminating thousands of successful habitats. It’s also worth stating that a citizen’s right to the pursuit of happiness should not be limited when aqua culturing corals has zero impact on natural reefs. Limit wild collections if you must, but please don’t force us to eliminate all of the coral that is already in captivity.

Jack

Exactly what i would have said word for word. Very well put!

[alton]

Even though my links where about hunting, hopefully everyone followed the story line how an animal got placed on a protected list because it was becoming extinct in its country, but the ones in another country where exempt until one judge decided something different. And this is exactly what will happen with corals. First lets ban the importation, then a judge will again step in and place a total ban or require a permit of the ones here. Can you imagine having to get a permit every year to keep or sell corals in your tank?

[Scutterborn]

Can you imagine having to get a permit every year to keep or sell corals in your tank?

Can you imagine the emergence of a huge coral "black market"?


-Ben-

[kkiel02]

Maybe limit the amount collected. Like for instance leave a large branching hammer largely untouched but allow collectors to break off one or two heads. Now having to buy permits every year, I guess I'll be on the wrong side of the law. :) just like if they try and take away my weapons. It's hard not to get political on topics like this but government overreach is getting ridiculous. Lets first try to enforce the laws we already have in place.

[rrasco]

Maybe limit the amount collected. Like for instance leave a large branching hammer largely untouched but allow collectors to break off one or two heads. Now having to buy permits every year, I guess I'll be on the wrong side of the law. :) just like if they try and take away my weapons. It's hard not to get political on topics like this but government overreach is getting ridiculous. Lets first try to enforce the laws we already have in place.

It doesn't work like that. Just make new laws and it will solve the world's problems, right?

[alton]

Can you imagine the emergence of a huge coral "black market"?


-Ben-

Bad boys, bad boys, watcha going to do when they come for you? Listening to the news tomorrow I can hear Leslie Mouton say “In breaking news today Reefer John Perry AKA Firewater (known MAAST Gang Leader) was apprehended today while crossing county lines transporting illegal corals. Some of the corals where GSP and some kind of unknown SPS, although the police officers could not readily identify the exact species? Since these corals are illegal for trade or sale in the US they were disposed of properly.
Back to the drug war the US Senate is passing a bill today making Marijuana and Cocaine legal to help relieve the jail overcrowding due to all the recent arrest of the reefers transporting and selling Illegal Corals. As one Senator from New York was quoted as saying “These Reefers just don’t get it, these corals need to stay in the ocean where they can remain for future generations” in closing the Senator was asked why is it so easy to find out who has these corals and we were told that flying drones over neighborhoods it is easy to pick up the glow from the crooks homes.
We will be right back for more news right after a quick commercial from Petco.

[Zack]

I think the real crime here is trying to to transport GSP..

But yeah, I do agree this is way over reaching. I'd be willing to bet there are more captive corals in home aquariums in the world then there are natural corals in the ocean.

[allan]

Lmao @ Alton's news break.

Prohibition time rolling around again. Maybe it's a glimpse into the future that Chris et al are self proclaimed "mobsters"? lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FireWater]

Nice one Alton.

They'll never catch me though.

[hobogato]

ill be the first one they catch with my blue beacons shining out of my solar tubes :lauging:

[Big_Pun]

brings new meaning to Reef Mafia! glad all my stuff is colonies, ill be ready with black market frags!!

[Scutterborn]

Alton, you're too funny! Well said!!


-Ben-

[ramsey]

Back to the drug war the US Senate is passing a bill today making Marijuana and Cocaine legal to help relieve the jail overcrowding due to all the recent arrest of the reefers

What, they're legalizing marijuana so that they can arrest more reefers? Oh wait, different kind of reefer! Too funny, Alton. I like that John was arrested for transportation of GSP too. The sad thing was, he was just taking it to the dumpster and not trying to sell it. "I swear officer, it's my friends GSP!"

[FireWater]

Lol Ramsey. "I swear Sir. I don't know how that got there, it ain't mine Boss."

[BBQHILLBILLY]

It doesnt make sense to me if you allready have these. If there in a stable, established tank, the coral is doing good. If you move it, it could kill it.
I should clarify that if you have to move it and its allready established in an established tank and then it becomes illegal to have it, you would have to move it and it may not survive.
thats not good. just my thoughts

[jcnkt_ellis]

Well, at least if this gets passed I'll know what type of law I'll be practicing in Nov. :wink_smile: