Puzzled on cycle?!?!

[jrossjr79]

I am a little lost here on the cycling. Hoping somebody can help me out with it.

As some of yall know, I recently got a 55G setup. When I got it, there was already some LR in it, as well as live sand. Of course most of the water was out so it can be transported. (I was not there for the tank to get emptied). The guy I bought it from told me to go ahead and give a full cycle, which I am in process of doing.

When I got my water the next day I got my chemical levels which were:
PH: 8.0
Ammonia : 0.35
Nitirite : 0
Nitirate: 0

It is now several days later and things read like this:
PH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0


Which strikes me odd, since during this time my Ammonia levels did go to 1.0 but my nitirite and nitrate levels never changed.

This is what I have in there:
15lbs LR
20 Lbs Live sand
Heater
Powerhead
Emperor 400 Filter
8 Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs (They were already in the tank)


Jump started cycle process with a dead uncooked shrimp.

I was sick so I was not able to do chemical test everyday. But here is what I have so far:

DATE PH AMMONIA NITIRITE NITRATE
3-19 8.0 0.35 0 0
3-22 8.0 0.75 0 0
3-23 8.0 1.00 0 0
3-27 8.0 0.25 0 0


Test kit I am using is API Saltwater Master Test Kit.

[Southern Flame]

Could be cause the rock and sand was already cycled.

[jrossjr79]

That is what I was starting to think, but wanted to run by it here what was going on. So do you think it is safe to add livestock to the tank? Or should I hold off and continue to monitor the chem levels?

[Southern Flame]

I'd continue to monitor the lvls but if you wanted to add live stock I'd go with something cheap and that will get along with whatever you wanna add in the future that way you don't have to worry about tearing rock work apart to catch a devil fish

[FireWater]

You still have ammonia showing on your results. Be patient and do not add anything until you can confirm the ammonia at 0.

[ramsey]

What firewater said, wait until you have no ammonia. I'm surprised you don't have any nitrates at this point. What test kit are you using and are you running any type of chemical filtration?

[jrossjr79]

Using the API Saltwater Test Kit. Following the directions exactly. Not sure what you mean by chemical filteration
only kind of filter that is on here is the emperor 400, and it just has regular filter pads and the bio-wheels.

[Southern Flame]

You might be getting a false reading I had that happen with my nitrates my kit said the highest color + took to store had 20ppm

[sdunn90fowlr]

If you are using the standard filter pads that come with the Emperor filter you are running carbon as your chemical filtration. This should not cause false readings, but like "Firewater" said, wait till you have zero readings on Ammonia and Nitrite. If you add anything before that, you will most likely end up sad and out the money you spent on the livestock. If the bio wheels on the filter were dry, you will have a cycle happen and as things mature and ammonia and nitrite levels fall, the nitrate will go up. The zero reading so far just means that the nitrogen cycle is in the works but has not reached proper levels of bacteria to be able to convert nitrite to nitrate. Firewater said it best, just be patient and you will be happier in the long run and not waste money on livestock just to have it parish on you.

What part of town are you in? I have a Salifert test for nitrates and would be happy to come by and test for you and compare the two readings if you are somewhat close by. I am in Live Oak.

[Southern Flame]

I'm off culebra

[allan]

Yeah, I'd get a second "chemical" opinion from another test kit. Your trites and trates test may not be performing IAW MFR specifications.

I had unusually high trates, like 80, and I went into AD and had them check the levels. I bought a test kit after that since AD showed me at respectable levels. You got to be able to trust your test kit, and the second look often either allays your fears, or demonstrates the malfunction of your test kit.

[Big_Pun]

so you used a dead shrimp to start it. now that the dead shrimp is gone there is nothing feeding the cycle to push it through. i set up new tanks now with microbactor, dr tims one and only nitrifying bacteria, bio spira or quick start. with those products you can toss in some hardy fish and cycle quick and then remove fish and add more slowly.

[allan]

You know what, Chris brings up an interesting point, one that I had forgotten.

The dead shrimp will cause an AM spike, and the rest of the cycling bacteria will follow, but unless you keep that same bioload represented by the dead decomposing shrimp, you begin to starve the bacterial filtration. Since you can't really measure what size of shrimp is necessary and then bounce that with a bioload to support it, it's a bad process. Maybe once the am starts, remove the shrimp, but without a source of ammonia to feed the filtration bacteria, you will have hungry bacteria.

I've not used the microbactor, but I hear a lot of good things about it. I would imagine that you would have the same issue with it as with the shrimp, only you are able to add livestock (cheap hardy fish/CUC) quickly and sustain the bacterial circle of life thing.

But get a second opinion on your water parameters.

[jrossjr79]

I live off in the Windcrest area, so if anyone wants to come by I highly appreciate it. Just PM me

[FireWater]

I agree with the comments on the cycle. The ammonia source is gone so the rest of the colonizing bacteria is not following quickly.

Get a second test done from another source first. Then I would follow up with another bacteria source.

[alton]

Have you checked your freshly made water change water?

[jrossjr79]

The dead shrimp is still in there, so wouldnt it keep some sort of ammonia going, as well as the 8 hermits? Have not done a WC as of yet, the way I understood it was that you dont do a WC till cycle was done, is this wrong?


as far as the filter, its not the white filter pads that have carbon or something else in it, its just the green one that is meant to trap big debree, or does that one too have chemicals in it?

[allan]

The problem isn't while the shrimp is in there decomposing, it's when it's eaten by the CUC or disolved completely into the water column. When it is gone, so is your ammonia source for the bacteria that has been growing in response to the shrimp.

I wouldn't do a water change unless you've got livestock in the tank already that will be harmed by the AM or Trites. You don't want to dilute the ammonia when the ammonia is what is spurring the nitrites to flourish, which in turn feed the nitrates.... uh, actually those are both responses, but you get the picture. The reason we traditionally do water changes after cycle is to maintain and lower your nitrates... or to help replace trace minerals and other essentials.

What Alton is asking, is for you to make fresh salt water and run your checks on that unsullied water. Remember, what you put in is going to drive what you're getting out. If you've got similar readings in your incoming water as what you're experiencing on the current tank water, then you've got other issues.

But the fact that your ammonia seems to be dropping indicates that perhaps there's nothing wrong with your fresh salt water.

[jrossjr79]

Cant test fresh salt water supply just yet, as I have no where to store the water. Will be picking that up as well as a RO/DI system after the first and utilities are paid for


as far as a different ammonia source, what does everyone suggest?

[ramsey]

You can just toss some fish food in there or a shrimp in a mesh bag. I use Dr. Tim's ammonia which you can get online. I've heard you can also use store bought pure ammonia but it's somewhat hard to find and not worth the risk IMO.

I'm cycling a tank right now. I started with Dr. Tim's ammonia, added bacteria and some hermits and I'm just adding a bit of food everyday while my new fish finishes his qt procedure. I'm currently having a diatom bloom in the tank which has started dying off so I'm expecting some algae soon.

[jrossjr79]

ok, thanks to Steve, got my second opinion on chem test for my nitrate levels, sure enough, I do have nitrates, 20ppm. Thank you so much for coming over and doing that for me.

Doing a comparison test again with the API test kit I have. Somehow I think my API Nitrate test will still say 0. Never again will I buy API if it does show 0.

[jrossjr79]

Well, with the nitrate from API it longer states 0, but it only states 5.0, maybe a bit more, but not higher than 10ppm, which is still not what the test that Steve did for me. I will be changing test products. Makes me wonder how accurate my ammonia levels are?

[ramsey]

I've used the API kit several times and never had a problem. A lot of people like Salifret and if you have the money, LaMotte.

[jrossjr79]

Well, as you can tell, I have had a problem with my kit, never read nitrites apparently, and is right now reading half of what salifret kit stated in nitrates. Its more money, and I agree, but I rather have reliability. Not trying to knock API, maybe my test kit is just old or maybe was not mixed right at the factory, and not what they usually put off. But I personally rather not take that chance.

[allan]

Bear in mind that I've not tested the three basics in over two or three years. You'll find that after awhile you're only concerned with the trates, and once your fuge is kicking your trates will stay down.


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[ramsey]

Bear in mind that I've not tested the three basics in over two or three years. You'll find that after awhile you're only concerned with the trates, and once your fuge is kicking your trates will stay down.


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Nitrates and phosphates, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium if you're going to be keeping SPS.

[allan]

Word!


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[jrossjr79]

Thank you both on the insight on that. That lets me breathe a bit easier :)

[Big_Pun]

Nitrates and phosphates, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium if you're going to be keeping SPS.

you forgot potassium !! ;)

[jrossjr79]

I thought I had to do calcium test regardless if I had corals, thought they were dependent on that. Please let me know if I read that right.

[Flyride95]

For a fowlr there is no need for calcium testing.

[jrossjr79]

not a 100% sure what the whole acroynm for fowlr is, but I assumed that it basically meant a fish only tank. If so, I wouldnt have corals in it. :)