More LED Talk

[RayAllen]

Guys I have been researching LEDS my self quietly. Watching you guys argue and debate which is best etc.

I am surprised to see that know one on here besides maybe one or two people are using Par 38 or Par 30 bulbs. These are amazing, look good, have a built on heat sink and are proven to grow and keep your corals happy. Have the 40-50,000 hr life span, not to mention color spectrums. I have been following these bulb threads on Nano-reef and reef central for a couple of months now and the results are nice and proven.

I really like the fact that they screw in to a standard socket therefor you can be as creative as you want with the fixtures. I personally like the idea of having a great light source hanging over my tank but in a way that is more pleasing to the eye rather than a black box.

You can even find these dimmable with remotes in full spectrum color. Makers- Rapid Led, Ecoxotic, OCreef, Boost Led and LedTric to name a few.

I was debating posting this because there are always doubters and debbie downers, but I am thinking of going this route sometime this year. My 40g breeder 36" and shallow so I will either be going 3-4 bulbs. Most likely 4. They run anywhere from $75-$100+ a bulb. Not set in stone but I have been pondering this for weeks now. :) It will be time to switch out my T5 bulbs soon and I may make the switch then.

[Big_Pun]

for your tank that would be a great choice, im sure you can find a creative way to hang them.

[allan]

I was thinking about one for my sump.... I'd need quite a bit for my DT.

I would have thought with the spread available from a 38 that you would only need two.


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[RayAllen]

Chris I was thinking of some cool modern Ikea light fixture that would compliment the aquarium stand and the rest of the room.

Allan although they do have a wide light coverage Im thinking 3 minimum that way i have great coverage with less spotlight effect.

Bernie has a Rapid LED Par38 over his frag sump area and they were doing well for him. Hope he doesn't mind me mentioning that.

I am wanting either full spectrum (has red and green Leds) or something that gives me a 14-15K spectrum.

[Zack]

For a 40 breeder I would use 6 for no spot lighting. You could possibly get the job done with 4 but you would have to aquascape accordingly. Look into the mr. Aqua 12 gallon long thread here on maast a few months ago, the user had an awesome way to hang them and used an extra 2 with blue leds only for a dusk/ dawn effect.

[350gt]

IMO they would be good to spot light a area or for a nano tank. But a large tank would need way too many.

[FireWater]

Agree with what most have already said Ray. I am in the beginning stages of planning a new smaller tank and par style lighting is on the list. For a larger footprint tank it just isn't feasible.

[RayAllen]

A large tank would take a lot. I have a 40g breeder which is shallow so it will not take many. As mentioned there will be people who disagree. I have been watching them for a while and have seen what they are capable of.

Also keep in mind I have no SPS. If I do get any they will be Montipora.

Zack I was thinking of going with 2 small bulbs for my dusk dawn lighting that will have all blue. Its actually running one on the tank currently. Has 3 1watt Leds in the Actinic range of color and man do the colors pop.

So what I will start with will be 3-4 full spectrum Par 38's and 2 Actinic spectrum blue LED bulbs. I will post in my build thread when I get around to putting this in to action.

[RayAllen]

As some know with me nothing is set in stone, but I will be moving to LEDs of some sort for sure.

[rrasco]

As some know with me nothing is set in stone, but I will be moving to LEDs of some sort for sure.

Welcome to the dark side :thumbs_up:

[RayAllen]

Thanks, it took me a while to come around to LEDs. But what do they say the "Truth is in the Pudding.."

I've also been looking at the Chinese fixtures and Razors.

[Zack]

Razors look crazy sweet. Haven't read much about them but dang, they look slick. I ran a par38 on my 10 gallon and got about 12'' of solid coverage from 16'' above the tank. The other 4 inches on each side were slightly dim.

[rrasco]

I like what I have seen with the Razors. Never used one myself, but hearing good things about them. Only negative was I heard their rail/hanging system was kind of cheap.

The chinese black boxes have had decent success too, just beware there are dozens of models and manufacturers, so YMMV. There was also an incident in the last month where one installed on a teacher's tank at school caught fire and caused some serious damage. It was overnight or on the holiday break. Not saying they will catch fire, but beware.

[Big_Pun]

There was also an incident in the last month where one installed on a teacher's tank at school caught fire and caused some serious damage. It was overnight or on the holiday break. Not saying they will catch fire, but beware.


link?

[Big_Pun]

oh found it, thats diff from the ones most reefers use....
http://www.3reef.com/forums/led-aquarium-lighting/psa-beware-cheap-ebay-fixtures-fire-143027.html

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2247904

[rrasco]

Yeah, that's the story...this was the thread I read about it in: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums//showthread.php?t=2250637

You're right, I thought it was a black box she was using, that was a high powered SMD LED it appears. If anything, I'd still be cautious with black label products. I use lots of Chinese stuff, I just normally assemble it myself.

[Big_Pun]

If anything, I'd still be cautious with black label products. I use lots of Chinese stuff, I just normally assemble it myself.

like the toyota tundra "built in texas"!! lol sorry ray i had to add that joke to easy to pass up.

back on subject i dont think you can go wrong with any quality led light you choose. Emily runs a black box and loves it, your welcome to come by and see it, its on a 20g long.

[rrasco]

I didn't mean to imply they don't work, or not to buy Chinese stuff, a ton of people have had success with them, as you and Emily have. I almost bought some myself. Any fixture can fail, like Tony's AI that nearly took his shorts out. I just meant be cautious with what you choose, it's not so much the LEDs, it's the build quality of the fixture and stuff like UI ratings that are not required over there.

[350gt]

Why not 2 led strips for actinic and 3 par 38 bulbs for the full spectrum?

Its just another option....


But at that price point your pressing the ai vega or Ecotech's radian price range..

[RayAllen]

Why not 2 led strips for actinic and 3 par 38 bulbs for the full spectrum?

Its just another option....


But at that price point your pressing the ai vega or Ecotech's radian price range..

That is true. This is not so much about cost. I mean if I went with three Par 38s. I am looking at $300 right there alone in good bulbs. Then I would estimate another $25-40 for each fixture etc. The Actinic another ?$. So I am approaching $500 already once all said and done. With me I like the outside of the aquarium to be just as aesthetically pleasing as the inside. I run my tank with out a canopy so what ever is hanging above I want to look great. Par38s allow a lot of options in that aspect.

[350gt]

Have you looked into the kessil brand cannons?

[350gt]

True without a canopy strips and bulbs would look a little tacky....

[FireWater]

Look at lowes or hd. They have the glass pendents you can buy. That would look sweet over the tank.

[RayAllen]

John I was thinking glass pendants also.

Here is one of thread that has inspired this idea.

guys tank is doing excellent on his Par 38 and a heck of a lot larger and deeper than my 40g breeder. Read through his thread. Lots of great info and par reading etc..

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/228330-beekers-200dd-par38-reef-new-pics-3-10-11/

[350gt]

Wow that tank is nuttz

[krazykrakr2186]

I've been running a single PAR 38 bulb in my fuge for the past year or so. Works great for growin' the macro's. Picked it up at lowes for about 40 bucks. Its prob no the quality you have been looking at in the 100 dollar bulbs but these get the job done.

[350gt]

Guy switches to AI sols at the end.......

[ducati996]

John I was thinking glass pendants also.

Here is one of thread that has inspired this idea.

guys tank is doing excellent on his Par 38 and a heck of a lot larger and deeper than my 40g breeder. Read through his thread. Lots of great info and par reading etc..

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/228330-beekers-200dd-par38-reef-new-pics-3-10-11/
his rack system is pretty kewl looks like he has alot of shawdows in that tank though still a lnice looking setup

[RayAllen]

The Par 38s they sale at HD, Lowes etc are not geared specifically towards aquariums. They will grow the heck of Macro though.

Bulbs that I am looking at have been engineered for aquarium purposes specifically for reefs and planted aquariums. Come in more desirable spectrums 10k, 12, 14, 20k and full spectrum etc.. Not to mention each led is a 3watt where as in most you buy not for aquarium use have 1watt LEDS.

Some examples im looking into

http://www.boostled.com/product_p/par30.htm
http://www.rapidled.com/12-led-par38-bulb-mixed-color-with-uv/
http://www.ecoxotic.com/ecoxotic-par38-aquarium-led-lights.html
http://www.ocreef.com/ocreef_par_38_cree_led_aquarium_lamp
http://www.ledtric.com/led-components/ledtric-par38-full-spectrum-18w-reeflamp/

[350gt]

I didn't read through it all, just skimmed through it....


why did he choose to go to ai sols after all that hype?

[Louis-210]

Wow that tank is super nice.

[RayAllen]

AI Sols, I do like them. A AI Sol has what 24 3w Leds? 2 Rapid Par38 Led bulbs would also have 24 Leds. Its a matter of preference like everything else in this hobby.

350gt what are you running?

[RayAllen]

I didn't read through it all, just skimmed through it....


why did he choose to go to ai sols after all that hype?

Guy never updated the thread. He did start to have some coral receding but blamed it on water parameter issues etc. With the number of bulbs he was running maybe it came down to cost, although they have 50000 hrs of life on them so who knows. Really just posted the thread to show that they do work well. For me with a much smaller tank I should have good results

[Paul28]

I didn't read through it all, just skimmed through it....


why did he choose to go to ai sols after all that hype?


He says on page 9 at the end post #224 o wait yeh no update yet

[350gt]

I ran the sols, now have the vega's.

happy with the sols, very happy with the vega's.

I hear you on the preference thing.... All I heard was not to go led when I wanted but cause I preferred no heat and little electricity, I chose this route:.. No amount of growth can sway me to the other side.. And with LEDs getting better and better with every gen, there is no reason why anyone will ever have to go back....

But I did like the idea of the easy swapping of par38 bulbs.... I think it would be a neat idea for the 40 and 3 would look nice suspended over it...

[FireWater]

I've been running a single PAR 38 bulb in my fuge for the past year or so. Works great for growin' the macro's. Picked it up at lowes for about 40 bucks. Its prob no the quality you have been looking at in the 100 dollar bulbs but these get the job done.

Same here. I run one in a shop light for my fuge.

[RayAllen]

I got to see the vegas at johns. I think that is what he's running.... beautiful design

I do love the fact that they are so controllable which does still have me on the fence. Just wish the spread was a bit more than 24" then one of those would do the trick for me unless I moved everything closer to the center of the tank.

[FireWater]

Check out the Orphek LEDs as well Ray. Those have always been on my short list.

[FireWater]

Yes, I'm running Vegas.

[Big_Pun]

250w mh!! :lmao2:

[RayAllen]

250w mh!! :lmao2:

LOL, been there done that. I did like my 14k Phoenix bulbs.

[RayAllen]

Check out the Orphek LEDs as well Ray. Those have always been on my short list.

Will do John. they have some Killer LED pendants.

[350gt]

I still want to try


http://www.marinedepot.com/Orphek_PR_ML7_Dimmable_LED_Pendant_LED_Light_Bulbs _for_Saltwater_Reef_Aquariums-Orphek-UG1531-FILTBULD-vi.html


the 4blue/3uv....


wouldnt mind running 2 of those with my vegAs for uv.

[Big_Pun]

i saw this at macna and really liked it
http://orphek.com/orphek-products/pr72-reef/

http://blog.aquanerd.com/2012/10/orphek-pr-72-led-pendant.html

[RayAllen]

Yea, those are nice Chris. I have been looking at the Orphek PR72s and the Kessils. May wind up with one or the other.

[350gt]

Hey Chris on that link the guy has the meter on "sun" when measuring....


With the same meter from Louis, is everyone measuring with sun or electric?


I used electric but plan to take better measurements tomorrow....

[Big_Pun]

i do mine in sun, we are trying to replicate the sun......

[350gt]

Dang!!!!....

okay...


well at least your metal HALIdes got the heat part down :)

[FireWater]

They are proud of the pr72. Have you seem it in person Ray? It is bigger than you think and I don't know if it would capture what you are looking for aesthetically. I tried to check it out at MACNA but Chris kept standing in front of me. What I did see was amazing. I have always been a fan of Orphek since I first saw them, but they aren't widely available and I jumped on the AI bandwagon.

[alton]

I thought Vega was the cats meow? Now your changing your minds again. No wonder I am still using MH, no arguements between us MH people.

[rrasco]

I read today AI has a new line of LEDs coming out already. No idea what where when or how.

[RayAllen]

They are proud of the pr72. Have you seem it in person Ray? It is bigger than you think and I don't know if it would capture what you are looking for aesthetically. I tried to check it out at MACNA but Chris kept standing in front of me. What I did see was amazing. I have always been a fan of Orphek since I first saw them, but they aren't widely available and I jumped on the AI bandwagon.

John I have not seen them in person. I'd like to, pretty sure none of our LFS carry them. I haven't seen the kessils in person either. I've only been able to use pics as references.

[FireWater]

Invalid argument Alton. My Ford truck drives ok, but I want a Chevy.

Ray they are about 12 to 14" across the bottom. Not huge, but bigger than the par38 bulbs.

[sdunn90fowlr]

I have a single PAR38 hanging over my IM Nuvo8 and everything is doing great. Softies and LPS are growing good with good color. SPS are doing "OK". Montipora and Setosa are fine, but birds nest I got from Sherita is only fair. Maybe it is still adjusting a bit.

Anyhow, 1 PAR38 is a bit of overkill for my tank so I just raised it up a bit more. Hope this helps.

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[MIOR6485]

Iv been running Par 38 on my 200 since 2011. From experience ive learned that although the LEDS lasts the claimed 50,000hrs+, the electronics that run the LEDS does not. Regardless, here is my tank

[Sherita]

Alton, I'll share my popcorn with you.

This discussion could be entertaining, at least until it degenerates into technobabble.

[CoryDude]

I have not been impressed with my sps colors since switching from halides to vegas. I've since added a hydra and have been supplementing with vho's again. Too soon to tell on the colors, but more than once I've threatened to switch back to the 250w hqi's.

Some corals love the LEDs but the sps seem to miss the uv light and the penetrating factor of halides.

[alton]

Alton, I'll share my popcorn with you.

This discussion could be entertaining, at least until it degenerates into technobabble.

How do I get drug into something I said after 9 months? Popcorn and beer is good though. LED lasting 50,000 hours is with a 30% drop in lighting (Average). The same industry that gave LEDS 50K hours also gives some T8's 25K and MH on Pulse start ballast 20K hours. I change my Radium lamps when they drop 10% which can be 12 months or 24 months because all lamps are not the same. LEDS are the same some will last longer than others, that is why you need a meter to check.