24 LED Build for 20 long

[Zack]

So I reconsidered going metal halide and now I'm working on the initial idea for an LED build.

I'll be going with the aquastyle led kit with a 7x16 heatsink and 80 degree optics.

Here's my planned layout, any comments?

The purple color is UV, green is green, and red is red. Blues will be royal blues and whites will be 10k.

I'm getting the dimable kit.

Here's my layout

[rrasco]

I used different whites in mine (4500, 6500, 10000). I don't know how important that is though, I just tried to add as many different spectrums as possible. It works. I think choosing one white, a lot of people tend to choose the NW as they have a better visible light to them. I don't know what kelvin that is though, I think 4500.

Which dimmable drivers are you getting? Be aware there are two different dimming methods. The maxwellen drivers and the Meanwell D series accept a 10V analog dimming signal, and the Meanwell P series use PWM, which is most common among off the shelf controllers.

[Big_Pun]

im not sure if its just the UV or the red and green also, but the fixture emily got makes her coral pop. one of the better fixtures ive seen. good luck with your build

[Zack]

I was going with this driver

http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Maxwellen-LED-Dimmable-Driver-%287%252d12%29x3w.html

[Zack]

I'm just using potentiometers to dim to a color and par value I like, I have a RKL but don't want to get the ALC or deal with all that mess. A simple 2 stage morning / full/ sunset is good for me haha.

[rrasco]

Then that will work fine. I just didn't want you to get them and be disappointed when you found out the dimming wouldn't work from your controller. However, it can still be achieved through the addition of a transistor if you ever wanted to. They are not the best drivers, but they do work and well enough for the application and price.

[Zack]

What is so bad about them? Just curious? And thanks, appreciate the heads up brother!

[rrasco]

Nothing is bad about them, they are just less efficient. Tons of people are using them, so they do work, I didn't mean to imply they wouldn't. There are just higher quality options, but come with a higher price tag. If I didn't build my own drivers, I would have used these.

[Zack]

Ah I see, thanks for that man !

[BBQHILLBILLY]

great choice. I think you will enjoy it. The configurations are endless. Make sure you get 2 drivers so you keep just the blues on.:bigsmile:
I like the series driver. ez So is the other with the parallel circuit.

[Zack]

After speaking with sunbrite, they are going to repair my fixtures free of charge. This leaves me with a working fixture, however it's only a B/W fixture. I'm thinking of using a rapid led 6 led kit on a 12'' x 2'' heat sink to add some color.

With 6 led's i'm thinking

Red
UV
Cyan
Green
UV
Red

With no optics mounted 12'' above the tank, what do you guys think would be the best use of the 6 leds?

[rrasco]

What kind of fixture is the sunbrite, T5?

What kind of color are you looking to add?

[Zack]

Sunbrite is 12x 3w cree led's. 5 Blues and 7 whites.

[rrasco]

While the lighting is symmetrical, I think it will end up looking weird. You'll have red on the ends of the tank and greens in the middle. Instead of being symmetrical, try putting them repetitive to get a better blend; red, uv, green, red, uv, green. I know you want cyan, but I think you should either keep it consistent color-wise (2 greens, or add a 1 more of each) and spaced evenly, or cluster them all together like you'll see in Radions and AI Sols. You could also do more than one row to blend it better. I wanted to cluster mine on the retrofit, but the mounting area was limited so I did 2 rows instead as shown below, UVs are centered respectively and whites were offset an inch to the left of the blues. Spacing doesn't show right on here though.

RB UV RB RB UV RB
NW NW NW NW

[Zack]

Would 2 cyan be better? Just curious. I'll make a video of my setup and you can tell me what best to do with these 6 leds. One moment.

[Zack]

Here's what I'm working with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkVnKlOK1E&feature=youtu.be

[rrasco]

Okay. I thought you were talking about left to right. Honestly, I don't know what it will do, if the spread will be enough or not. Do you already have the LEDs? I'd say give it a try and see how it works out, I just didn't want you to end up with big splotches of different colors. You're on the right track by adding more spectrums though.

[Zack]

Thanks man. What I'll do is just buy a drilled/ tapped heat sink and arrange them and fire them before actually attatching them into the fixture. I think the spread may be good enough but you never know. I'll update this thread as progress occurs. Thanks a lot buddy.

Just curious, in case I do build a fixture from the ground up, what leds do each of your fixtures contain?

[rrasco]

The current ones over my 105 are mainly RB and NW (4500K). Each fixture has 2 pink, 2 6500K, and 2 10000K. RB to white ratio is 2:1. The pinks are substituted for 2 of the blues and the other whites replace the NW on those strings as well.

The retro fitted T5 I just built has 4 RB, 4 NW, and 2 UV.

[Zack]

So your big fixture has no uvs, greens or reds?

[rrasco]

Nope. The various whites provide some of that, but not specifically.

[Zack]

So, I'm going to order my kit tomorrow, my final question is, the rkl module dims from 0-10 v, but online, I read LED brightness is driven by current.

I know the drivers have a SVR2 switch that needs to be lowered from 1.3 A to about 8 miliamps which is the max for the bridgelux leds.

From here, is 8 miliamps driving my leds at 100 %? Or is 10 volts driving my leds at 100%?

So say, if I wanted to drive my leds at 50% I would have to tune the led driver switch to 4 mili amps? Or just have the RKL run them at 8 ma at 5 volts?

Sorry if that's confusing lol

[alton]

I am sure 0-10v dimming drivers for LED are the same for MH and T8's/T5's ballast? You will give it 120v plus there will be an additional two wires for your 0-10v control? Maybe one of the LED gurus can chime in?

[alton]

If not maybe go on the digital aquatics web forum and ask this question.

[rrasco]

What drivers are you getting?

You have two types of dimming: digital and analog. Digital is via PWM. Which is typically 5v, but I do believe the RKL might use 10V PWM. If it doesn't use PWM, it's using analog dimming, which is when you see a pot for dimming.

I'm not sure where you got the 1.3A and 8mA from. LEDs are driven by current, from the driver. As you send your driver a dimming signal (via PWM or analog), it tells the driver to output more or less current. Bridgelux LEDs are typically 700mA max, so if I had a 700mA driver and I was running it at 50%, it would be driving the LEDs at 350mA. You're not directly dimming the LEDs, you're sending the driver a different signal so it can modify its output.

[Zack]

I got the mA from a rapid led spread sheet that said to Dim the SVR2 ports to make sure you don't blow the leds. I'm using the MeanWell ELN-60-48D drivers and the ALC module. From my understanding, when I wire the drivers, I won't use the pot, because the ALC will do the dimming for me and provide the power to the drivers. Is this correct?

[Zack]

"

Once all of the above have been completed, power the driver and rotate SVR2 clockwise until thereadout on the multimeter displays the desired output current for 100% brightness. In the belowphotos, the current begins at .25A, or 250mA. SVR2 was rotated clockwise until the desired current wasreached (in this case .75A, or 750mA). When measuring current, you can ignore the – sign because weare only interested in the absolute amount of current flowing through the LED string. Switching themultimeter leads around would have would have flipped the sign around to + in our example. "

This is because the drivers are pre-set at 1.3A which would blow certain colored LEDs.

[rrasco]

I don't know much about the RKL and I have no idea what SVR2 is. It sounds like SVR2 is a pot that is used to set the max current for the drivers. In that case, if they were set to 1.3A, you would blow all of your bridgelux LEDs. You need to set this at 700mA (.7A), that way when you tell your drivers go 100%, it won't ever exceed the current limitations for the LEDs. And at that, don't ever run them at 100% for extended periods of time. Testing is fine, but you will kill your LEDs quicker and they will shift spectrum if you run them maxed out. Think of it like turning a radio all the way up. No radio ever sounds good at max power (normally).

And that's correct, you do not have to have a pot. That is used for pretty much the same thing I just explained above, setting a maximum amount of current that can flow over that circuit. Sounds like one is built in with your drivers, or ALC, wherever that SVR2 thing is.

[Zack]

So I got the svr2 thing figured out, now my next idea.

I want to make a box to fit my fixture in to make it look less diy. The first thing I thought of was acrylic, however it's not readily available to me and difficult to cut since I don't really have the tools to do so. My next option was wood. Would it be safe to make a box out of wood and mount it around my fixture?

[rrasco]

Looking for a box for the fixture, or for the drivers etc?

I did acrylic. You could use a table saw, circular saw, or even score it by hand if you want. You can come over and I can use my neighbors table saw if you want to go acrylic. Or, there are quite a few acrylic savvy folks on these boards that would probably be willing to help as well.

I don't know if wood will work, but I don't see why not, it will just be heavier.

[Zack]

A box for the actual fixture itself.

I may go over and use that saw if thats ok with your neighbor, I first want to see how everything looks before I decide to do the extra work.

Curious, how much did your acrylic cost you per fixture?

[rrasco]

I think I paid $40 for enough acrylic for 3 of my fixtures. I think they were 12x24 pieces. I got them from US plastics. Call and price check with regal or allied, can't be any more than that.

I don't think he would mind at all.

[Zack]

Shoot, that's not too bad. Are these local companies you refer to? What thickness did you order?

[rrasco]

Yes, Regal and Allied are both off Rittiman.

I lied. It was 3/16" thick at $15.39 per sheet. After shipping I paid $66.87.

[Zack]

So for 4 fixtures at 66.87. that's not too bad.

Do you think plexi glass would filter out uv?

I'm thinking of getting 6 cuts.

4 cuts to make a box, a cut in the back to mount my fan (with a fan guard) and then a cut for the side where the lights are with 8 large circles cut out covered by plexiglass (sort of like a big lens).

[rrasco]

Mine was for 3 fixtures. They were only 2.5-3" tall, so I was able to build a fixture per sheet by ripping the acrylic long ways. But if you buy local, you might save some chedda without shipping. You can always have them cut it too, I don't think they charge much for cuts, you just buy the material. Not sure though. Would be best to have them cut those circles though, I can only do that at work on our Xenetech. I have a router here, but I'm not comfortable performing that cut with it.

I do not believe it will filter UV. Keep in mind Plexi is a name brand and is made different from say, Lexan. Which is also a name brand. I don't know enough about the different materials to tell you what is best though.

[Zack]

Whats the max current you have your leds set at? I heard it was best do drive them at a max of 66%.

[rrasco]

Physically, my drivers are limited to output 700mA max. The programming in my controller restricts blues to 50% and whites to 45% of that.

[Zack]

Sounds good, I'll shoot for that on mine

[BBQHILLBILLY]

Ive been listening and from what I have learned it depends on what your growing in the tank and at what depth. placement is the key.
I do have mine turned up right now. But I am covering a wide tank. 6x2x18 and my light are above the sw 18inches.
I want to start turning it down once I get the sps, lps, softies the right spot.

[rrasco]

Are yours cranked all the way up Shane? I nearly killed my tank when I turned mine up 10% last month. Last time I do that.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

Right now they are. But I also have some of the lenses off some LEDs. I only have lenses in cetain spots to penetrate deeper to the sand bed.
The canopy I am using is tall and is putting the LEDs 18 inches above the sw. Trying not to burn the top of LR like MH do.
And penetrate deeper to sand bed. sps are higher. Coral are adjusting and I will see if I can lower next week.
I had the LEDs turned down but I could not find that spot for sps, lps, and softies to be happy. so turned it up and readjusting.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

rrasco I have to admit controlling each LED angle adds another dimension to lighting that the sw hobby has not seen.

[rrasco]

Yep. I am going to do some optic testing when I build my AI clone. Probably a higher power center emitter with a wider lens. Colored emitters more narrow. We'll see.

[Zack]

Have you designed your prototype yet?

[Zack]

My package just arrived!!

[rrasco]

Have you designed your prototype yet?

No. AI did though. :D

Which package was it again? I'm too lazy to re-read anything.

[Zack]

haha are you using the same layout with the same colors or something else?

And the aquastyle 24 dimmable kit!

Too bad I can't solder.. expect this thing lighting up my tank in.... 3 weeks or so..

[rrasco]

Yeah, I am. That's why it is a clone. I want to see how much I can build one for and how much functionality I can cram in there. It probably won't have a controller with a UI, it might, but I might just write the code for it and run it off that. I really need to see one though to see how they are put together, so I can steal all their ideas.

I thought it was an aquastyle kit. I can help you put it together if you don't feel comfortable soldering. I'm not the best but I have a decent iron and enough ability to get it done.

[Zack]

Will each color be individually controllable?

And I may take you up on that offer. My pops is going to have a go at it next week while I'm in town for work and if that doesn't work I'd love to meet up.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

congrats on the kit picsss:bigsmile:

[Zack]

YES! pics shortly

[rrasco]

Will each color be individually controllable?

And I may take you up on that offer. My pops is going to have a go at it next week while I'm in town for work and if that doesn't work I'd love to meet up.

That's the plan.

No problem. Just let me know.

[Zack]

Here's what I got

17881

[Zack]

So I was watching a rickett's reef diy led video and he mentioned tinning the wire and the leds. On ray's instructions he does not mention either of these. On a diy thread about these led's a guy mentioned he pre tinned his wire but he did not tin his led's. Do the led's not need to be tinned? Are there benefits to tinning?

[tylermonster]

in my experience it helped alot to tin the wire, and it helped alot to use flux when soldering it to the led

[rrasco]

I don't tin either of them. If anything, I might do the wire, but in my experience putting solder on the pad before you put the wire on it makes it harder to get it in there, because you have to heat that solder back up. A pad full of solder is harder to heat up than a thin piece of solder. I like to heat the pad up with the wire on it and let the solder flow in and around. If you have a nice iron it might not be so hard to do with a tinned pad.

[Zack]

I see. I'll try and do that and see how it works. Man I'm excited. I drew up my actual plans with measurements last night

17891

[Zack]

Here's my planned lighting sequence.

[Zack]

Guess my pics didn't work.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/zackg7/ScreenShot2012-12-06at110059AM.png

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/zackg7/ScreenShot2012-12-06at31846PM.png

[BBQHILLBILLY]

Getting solder on the ends of the wire helps connecting to the LED. Have you decided which ones are going to be on each driver and the polarity for each?:bigsmile:

[Zack]

Shane, driver one will be 8 RB and 4 UV. Driver 2 will be 6 10k Whites, 2x cyan, 2x purple, and 2x red. I'll run them at the max current at around 50%. So I think the max current is 750ma so they'll top out at around 350ma each.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

when get a chance pm me your schematic:bigsmile:

[Zack]

Like the paper that Ray sent me? My schematic that I drew up is on the page before this one

[BBQHILLBILLY]

I was hoping for the +/- diodes and parallel or series circuit schematic. lmk:bigsmile:

[Zack]

Ok, I just got home from work, I'm going to do some hw and take the pic of what I got here in a second. I haven't drawn up a schmatic of this fixture but I'll send you what ray sent me.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

unless you go into parallel circuit. no pic needed. I got it. I think I know, each driver is for a series circuit and each will control the 12 LEDs. at 350 mA. :bigsmile:

[Zack]

Well I'm wiring the 12 LED's in series. If I chose to run them at 100% (which i'm not) I'll be at 700ma.

[Zack]

Attatched led's to the heat sink today. I'm going to try and get them soldered up next week.

[Zack]

First pic shows the leds that will be on the blue driver. 4x UV, 8x Royal blue. Also, holy smokes, those reds are BRIGHT. Even with the LED tester I **** near burned my eyes haha.

I also placed my order for my ALC with 3x lunar pods from marine depot.

[tylermonster]

look good man

[BBQHILLBILLY]

I just saw this autocontroller check it out
:bigsmile:http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/-SolarLux-LED-Controller.html

[Zack]

Blues and UV wired up. About 30% done so far 18021

Tomorrow will be whites/red/cyan/ purple then I have to build something to hang them from (next week) then I have to make a box to put around the fixture which may not be for a month or so.

[Zack]

In case you were wondering, I'm using a 9v battery to light them up. Also, my ALC and lunar pods came in :)

[BBQHILLBILLY]

nice . whaaat 9volt battery:bigsmile:

[rrasco]

Looking good man. Better hurry up, I started another fixture this weekend and almost caught ya!

[Zack]

Haha pics!!!

[rrasco]

Not done yet, but I always get pics. I was actually trying to take a video of how to solder LEDs so I could post it, but I couldn't get the camera close enough to see AND stay out of my way.

[Zack]

SHE LIVES!!!!!

18031

[BBQHILLBILLY]

I cant seeeeeeeeee!!!!:bigsmile:

[rrasco]

Haha, sweet. Did you solder it yourself?

[Zack]

No, my dad did. I soldered the last led though and even then it took me a while and was a messy solder.

[rrasco]

FWIW, I did find tinning the star easier to do in the end. I didn't use to do that, but definitely see the benefit now. My first few connections are always messy, then I get in a groove. The iron always seems to get hotter or just work better after I do a few as well. Maybe it's just me.

[Zack]

This is true, I noticed that as my dad was doing it the soldering got quicker and quicker. Now to wait till christmas for my gf to let me mount it......

[rrasco]

Why do you have to wait?

[Zack]

It's a christmas present from my gf so it's her rules on this one :/

[Zack]

Obligatory teaser pics

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/zackg7/110_0674.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/zackg7/110_0667.jpg