male clownfish alone..female now?

[Mr Cob]

So.. my black darwin male has been alone for about a week now, do you think it has changed to a female yet? I'm hoping not as I just added a known female with him that is larger.

I have another male that is the same size as him that I could pair him up with in case he did start changing to a female already but being that they are the same size I know it might take longer for them to duke it out and bond.

I will probably give it a day or two to see what happens with him and the known female. I guess if they are both female they will duke it out to the death and I just need to intervene before the death part.

[allan]

Before the death part... I like that. Like the moment before the clarity that is hindsight. :)

Hey rob, how many tanks do you have running for the clown venture?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr Cob]

hey dude.. got the IM30g BTA tank for one breeder pair (darwin and semi picasso) and the 29g BioCube mixed reef for the other breeder pair (darwin mis-bar and platinum). I also have a 40g cube for clownfish growout (not setting this up until I have some success and need it).

If I enjoy this I will most likely set up a 5 tank breeder system much like what you would find in the fish store.. but that's later and only if I get into clown breeding. Just trying to have fun with it right now.

[Mr Cob]

is it a given that if a known male clwonfish is alone that it will start changing into a female, and if so how long does it take for that process to start before it's too late?

[Texreefer]

Rob, from my understanding a Juvenile or male clown will not change into a female unless given an outside/environmental stimulus such as the presence of other males or juveniles.. In Joyce Wilkersons book 'Clownfishes'. It is suggested that it could take a year or more of a clownfish being by itself before changing to a Female... I don't think you have anything to worry about

[KING]

They can chang in as fast as a week..if they are both female u can tell wen they fight an they will both lock up at the mouth..get a male in a tank with something it can get territory over like a nem..an that will chang it up..i changed my super snow like that in a week..

[Mr Cob]

i haven't seen them lock up at the mouth yet but they are both doing the dance and nipping at eachother's tail

[Mr Cob]

so, I chickened out and opted to keep the bonded pair together. Only reason I wanted to set one up with my darwin is because this pair is from the same clutch and their parents were too. Lineage is... ORA, Donni's Reef, BSJF (Lorraine)..then these guys. So 4th generation or less because I do not know if ORA and/or Donni's Reef in line bred theirs. I do know that these two are from the same clutch as well as their parents that BSJF had. From what I have gathered online there is no worry for mutations until 6-10th generation of in line breeding. Any comments on this?


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8068/8156102000_869132d049_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7277/8156105344_af64fbee40_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8485/8156071459_52f477bbf8_z.jpg

[Mr Cob]

by the way, the semi-picassos are Tue Percula (Amphiprion percula)

[reefreak]

Switched up the clowns nice looking pairs of clowns you have btw I'm quite jelly lol.

[Mr Cob]

thx Jeremy, I will probably trade out the darwin in the trap.

[Zack]

Pretty clown. If I didn't already have two on hold at Polly's I'd be all over this.

[KING]

What pollys are ppl always talking about..I went in to the one off 1604 an it was a wast of gas..Is there a day out the week i should go. .

[Mr Cob]

talked to a few breeders that are against in line breeding.. still trying to figure out what to do.

I have 2 bonded pairs both are not spawning yet and one Darwin (male I think).

Semi Picasso female (A.percula) x Semi Picasso (A.percula) bonded pair (in line bred)
Platinum female (A.percula) x Misbar Darwin (A.ocellaris) bonded pair (different lineage)
Darwin (A.ocellaris)

My problem is not wanting to continue the pair of semi picassos due to the in line breeding. My other problem is that I'm not 100% certain that the single Darwin is male.

At this point I'm thinking of just switching the known males from each pair to get this: (but..this would really slow down the spawning process and I would have to wait for them to bond)

Semi Picasso female (A.percula) x Misbar Darwin (A.ocellaris)
Platinum female (A.percula) x Semi Picasso (A.percula)

Honestly though.. I really just want to keep my misbar darwin and platinum pair together because they are bonded and it's a unique pair. And just take out the picasso male for my single darwin.. I just put the female semi picasso and single darwin male in the holding container and they are duking it out, they have had a few strikes jaw to jaw but no locking jaws yet.

If that worked I would have:
Semi Picasso female (A.percula) x Darwin (A.ocellaris)
Platinum female (A.percula) x Misbar Darwin (A.ocellaris)

Your thoughts?

[Mr Cob]

Here's what I have:

Platinum female (A.percula) x Misbar Darwin (A.ocellaris) bonded pair (different lineage)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8046/8101726600_7d9c671d1b_z.jpg



Semi Picasso female (A.percula) x Semi Picasso (A.percula) bonded pair (in line bred)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8068/8156102000_869132d049_z.jpg




Darwin (A.ocellaris) (male I think)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8485/8156071459_52f477bbf8_z.jpg

[Mr Cob]

I think just by posting all of that it helped me to be more clear on what I want to do. It's not worth breaking up the platinum and misbar darwin just to make another pair. After looking at the pic... I'm reminded how sweet they are.

I need to split the brother and sister bonded pair up. Doesn't sit right with me. So.. guess I have two chances to make the single darwin work...best case scenario is that the semi picasso female pairs up with the single darwin and worst case scenario is the single darwin is female and I have to pair her up with the semi picasso knwon male which would take forever since they are the same size.

[clownfishgems]

hey rob looking good. as for the inbreeding well im against it, your breeding 2 sibilings together and thus chances of deformities and or lots of culls, i know some of the top breeders around and ive talked to them about this subject,, lots of them with experience end up selling the pair or splitting them up, it's not very hard to find a different fish from a different source. to me it's a waste of time because you have to bond the pair for at least 6 months then you have to wait for them to breed (can take up to a year) just to come out with bad babies,, not worth the time,,, me personally i like to use fish from different sources , even if i by a pair from a person i break them up and use different fish ,even if it's not same species.. also wanted to clear things up on your venture of breeding the fish you have: your black and white darwin male and platnium female will not produce black ice, a black ice is a product of breeding a darwin and a snowflake together darwin female/male snowflake= black ice what you have a platnium female and darwin male= smorecularis is what they called them, and percentages were low, but the couple babies that were raised looked great, ill see if i can post a link...so that being said, to me if you want to do it the right way i would seperate the sibilings and use differnt source fish for each fish, youll get better results and a better gene pool if you know what i mean.... good luck on your breeding and if you have any questions just pm me, i have lots of info as far as breeding clownfish goes.....

[Mr Cob]

thanks for the info.. that's pretty much what I decided to do in my last post, the sibling thing wasn't sitting right with me.

So what would you do with the fish I have to yield the best premium fish? The only siblings and fish of the same source are the two semi-picassos.

I was going to go with:

semi-picasso (f) x darwin (m)
platinum (f) x darwin misbar (m)

semi-picasso (m) - bye bye

[Mr Cob]

or maybe... (all are true percula except the darwins)

semi-picasso (f) x darwin mis bar (m)
platinum (f) x semi-picasso (m) -this would make a true percula pair

darwin (m) - bye bye

[Mr Cob]

you know...if snowflakes, platinums come from picassos and if you breed a snowflake with a darwin to get black ice offspring then that tells me that a platinum and a darwin could also yield black ice. Because... essentially you are just breeding a picasso with a darwin. Isn't a platinum a picasso? Which means by pairing a darwin and platinum you have a chance of yielding black ice as well. I mean snowflakes and platinums are just different percentages of white..they are both still picassos.

picasso x picasso = (?)
snowflake x darwin = (?)
platinum x darwin = (?)
how about picasso x picasso (?)

now what about the yield differences between percula and ocellaris in these pairs?

thoughts?

[Mr Cob]

a few additional facts.

Picassos are percula
Platinums are also percula
Wyoming whites are ocellaris (same as platinums except they are oc)
Snowflakes are ocellaris

..ahhh never ending.

[Mr Cob]

I have a good breeder friend..you know who you are. Thanks for the PM and kind words bro.

I'm going to go with what feels right. I have a bonded pair..platinum and misbar darwins..I like them and I'm not going to delay spawning efforts on this pair by splitting them up. They will remain.

The other pair will be semi-picasso x darwin

[clownfishgems]

where are you getting the info????.. here ill explain simple way, the reason i know is because i have bred all the following fish you have listed, so here it goes..
picassoXpicasso= regular perculas,grade A,B,C picassos , snowcasso and platniums.....
snowflakeXdarwin(black and white clownfish)= snowflake grade A,B,C,darwins and even regular occellaris......
platniumXdarwin= your gonna get no platniums but occellaris fish with lots of black with picasso markings, now unless the darwin is a offspring that was from platniumXdarwin then theres a chance if bred with the platnium female it would yield in some platniums cause the darwin offspring would have platnium gene in it... understand???
picasso and snowflakes are a totally different fish, platnium is a percula and a snowflake is a occellaris...not sure who told you the info but it's totally wrong.. just saying that way you know what is what... if you mix a percula and a snowflake you will get some offspring with different marking , thats what i recently did , i mixed a female picasso and a male super black ice snowflake and im getting some cool marking babies at only 2 months old, i also noticed the marking coming in as early as day 8... ill post a video of my offspring in a bit here so you can see, clearly there are offspring with picasso marking and some with snowflake marking, then i have all white babies that have a blue hue to their white with black dots, looks cool...

[KING]

Clownfishgems..what part are u asking about..was reading the post..all his clowns are marked good to me..from percula to occellaris? im lost lol

[Mr Cob]

You keep asking me where I get my info from.. but there isn't a single source. I research and I ask questions. I'm looking for feedback.. I'm not stating that what I post is the final answer... that's why I flippin post so much.. I posting the information that I gather or discover and I end with "your thoughts"... what's everyone's thoughts? I have already stated that I'm new to breeding but if you know anything about me then you also know that I document everything I do reef related on MAAST. Doesn't mean I claim to know everything. I don't, but I would like to know more about breeding clownfish which is why this thread exists.

Anyways... thanks for posting. I appreciate it.

BUT... platinums are not just percula... you can get platinums from ocellaris as well, that's what wyoming whites are...thus my point that black ice could possibly be obtained from more than just one way. It was just a thought.. not saying that statement is fact.


Also...careful with the word snowcasso (trademark of donni's reef) we are going to show up on Donni's radar now when google indexes this thread. I get to let the world know what a neebie I am. Way to go.

[clownfishgems]

Clownfishgems..what part are u asking about..was reading the post..all his clowns are marked good to me..from percula to occellaris? im lost lol
well hes saying that platnium and darwin will make black ice , and im just simply trying to make it clear thats false,, darwin and snowflake make black ice ,, he said he couldn't wait to produce black ice from his darwin and platnium pair and i just wanted to let him know that he wouldn't produce black ice with the pair he has... kinda simple to understand. trying to help thats all

[clownfishgems]

You keep asking me where I get my info from.. but there isn't a single source. I research and I ask questions. I'm looking for feedback.. I'm not stating that what I post is the final answer... that's why I flippin post so much.. I posting the information that I gather or discover and I end with "your thoughts"... what's everyone's thoughts? I have already stated that I'm new to breeding but if you know anything about me then you also know that I document everything I do reef related on MAAST. Doesn't mean I claim to know everything. I don't, but I would like to know more about breeding clownfish which is why this thread exists.

Anyways... thanks for posting. I appreciate it.

BUT... platinums are not just percula... you can get platinums from ocellaris as well, that's what wyoming whites are...thus my point that black ice could possibly be obtained from more than just one way. It was just a thought.. not saying that statement is fact.


Also...careful with the word snowcasso (trademark of donni's reef) we are going to show up on Donni's radar now when google indexes this thread. I get to let the world know what a neebie I am. Way to go.okay just to get this clear, im saying this so you know FACTS , wyoming whites come from a place called seaquest , i used to know the part owner katy addison and the wyoming white is a full occellaris gene nothing to do with percula, again im only stating facts and not trying to start anything , pure facts just so you know whats going on and in my opinion helping you out,dont feel like im being mean cause im not, just trying to help you understand..lol, the wyoming white actually came from breeding 2 adult occellaris that threw out a very small percentage according to katy addison about 10-15% , platniums come from breeding 2 picassos ONLY , and a picasso is a percula...wyoming white came from breeding 2 normal occellaris clowns that had a hidden gene thus making the wyoming white... platnium=percula wyoming white=occellaris totally different species, like a pitbull and a doberman both are dogs but different species..as for the word snowcasso we can all use it as long as we dont sell our offspring named that name, i totally respect doni as shes a great breeder but really nothing to worry about unless you try and sell your offspring as that...

[Mr Cob]

lol, I said the exact same thing about platinum and wyoming white... my point is that the wyoming white and the platinum are both WHITE! Yet...one is ocellaris and one is percula. Which brings up my point that it is possible to get a very similar end result by going a different route. Before wyoming whites came along I bet many people claimed.. "you can only get pure white clownfish by breeding picasso x picasso", yet seaquest did pretty much the same thing a different route. You see my point? I get that one is perc and one is oc...but to everyone else they are just white clownfish. So I disagree that there is only one way to get what looks like a black ice fish. Will my pair produce what look like black ice clownfish... I guess I really don't know. Your facts obviously say no and you may be correct but I disagree that there is only one way to get that type of fish.

Again, thank you for chiming in. I believe we are on different pages, but that's ok because you posted some very useful information. I have been searching the net for days trying to find charts or lists of breeding charts with yields. Such as "breed this x this to get this".

perc x perc = perc
oc x oc = oc
oc x per = percularis (hybrid)

...now I just need to find all of the different variations

[Texreefer]

The clowns I raised were perc-occs. female was true perc and male was an Occ. there are probably still some floating around here somewhere

[Mr Cob]

well hes saying that platnium and darwin will make black ice , and im just simply trying to make it clear thats false,, darwin and snowflake make black ice ,, he said he couldn't wait to produce black ice from his darwin and platnium pair and i just wanted to let him know that he wouldn't produce black ice with the pair he has... kinda simple to understand. trying to help thats all

removed

[clownfishgems]

well here's both black ice and smorecularis , kinda different looking at least in my eyes!!what you think?
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1680&bih=959&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=bodUW-upmIhI_M:&imgrefurl=http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/alpha-corals/86052-1-topnotch-black-ice-clownfish.html&docid=VGW5cpFQYscfgM&imgurl=http://alphacorals.com/files/6013/3617/1632/2012-5-4-IMG_9384.jpg&w=800&h=471&ei=Xz2YUPjOMcjlrAH89oHgCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=403&vpy=149&dur=775&hovh=172&hovw=293&tx=156&ty=91&sig=106927160692775875146&page=2&tbnh=143&tbnw=253&start=35&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:20,i:185
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1680&bih=959&tbm=isch&tbnid=3hMW2mVj_iJSiM:&imgrefurl=http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t287560.html&docid=8Bh53DDySUjxfM&imgurl=http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii62/schlanger0/Smorcularis%252520Clownfish/Smorcularis10.jpg&w=1024&h=508&ei=7z2YUI3oDtKDrQGRqoDYDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1142&vpy=372&dur=2163&hovh=158&hovw=319&tx=162&ty=95&sig=106927160692775875146&page=2&tbnh=131&tbnw=262&start=35&ndsp=41&ved=1t:429,r:54,s:20,i:296

[Texreefer]

The names clownfish are given are just to describe their markings
Call them tinkerbell if you want
They are all either Percs. Occs, or Perc-Occs... they just look different through selective breeding...I love this game

[Mr Cob]

very true Mike... but I like the look of the black ice ones and was hopeful that my white paired up with my black could yield some. Not so hopeful now but I'm sure they will still make for some cool offspring.

[Texreefer]

I'm down for a couple of whatever you come up with

[Texreefer]

What I really like about all this is that we are all having conversation over Captive raised Fish.... Hobbyists are now able to breed their own and come up with variations that are more desirable than what can be wild caught..

[clownfishgems]

What I really like about all this is that we are all having conversation over Captive raised Fish.... Hobbyists are now able to breed their own and come up with variations that are more desirable than what can be wild caught..
yeah thats what i like about it and i enjoy breeding designer clownfish, rewarding experience at the 4th month.. really all im doing is trying to get facts out there and dont want to seem like im mister know it all but i have been breeding fish for over 10years, so i kinda know my stuff. breeders and wannabe breeders are 2 differnet things....like i said good luck on the breeding and you should come out with some nice smorecularis out of that darwin and platnium and i would be willing to trade some babies with my picassnows to get a better gene pool and another hybrid designer clownfish produced on my list:shades:...

[Mr Cob]

right on!

So.. smores refers to for "darwin x normal orange oc" and percularis is "oc x perc". So what exactly defines smorecularis?

[BSJF]

Hey Rob, is your Picasso pair from babies of my babies? Awe! Where did they come from?

Your other pair looks very beautiful together too! I wouldn't split them up.

There is so much inconsistency in what different varieties / color variations are called that it is hard to even communicate what anyone is raising or getting for their money. Apples are compared to tangerinos. Kinda sad really.

Best of luck in whatever you decide. Your kids will have blast watching the little baby fish grow.

[clownfishgems]

right on!

So.. smores refers to for "darwin x normal orange oc" and percularis is "oc x perc". So what exactly defines smorecularis?smorecularis is really just a name that a guy came up with that bred a darwin occellaris and a platnium percula.. in the clownfish world one breeds what he wants and if not yet done by another breeder well they name there own breed that they create... jonathan aka fisheyeservices has named his offspring from a darwin and a snowflake smores, but they were also known from ora as black ice... you can name them what you want , but if they've already been named before well it's best to keep them the same name so us breeders know whats what....

[Mr Cob]

thx clownfishgems

Lorraine, yes the semi-picasso pair are from you.. I got them from Harish, he got them from you around the same time we bought that lot of platinums from you as MCC. The kids have been so funny with watching the pairs fight..the 30g IM tank is low and near their eye sight so they have been watching them duke it out. Pretty funny. Thanks for the blessing. Glad I got to see your operation first hand when you were in full swing of rearing and appreciate that you documented so much of it. Thanks. Good to hear from you.