T5 / Metal halide / Led question.

[Flyride95]

So im tired of my t5's and would like to step up to something better. I have been thinking about getting a metal halide combined with 4 t5s alot. But tonight after looking around on youtube I have noticed that LED's are getting to be more popular. So if I wanted to DIY some LED's what all would I need? And would it be in compairison to the metal halide / t5 combination (400$)? Now im a bit slow when it comes to all of this becuase I havent messed around with electronics since I was in grade school but it cant be that much to learn. If im guessing correctly I would need 2 cooling plates for the leds to be glued to. Then wire them all together how ever I would like (blues on one and whites and blues on another). And then hook them up to a processor which then I plug into a timer. Am I correct in this? And im sure the items are named something other then what I called them. So if LED is the way for me to take this I guess what im asking anyone is what all websites would you recommend? And what all would I need to get it finished?

Thank you guys so much and im sorry about my led ignorance.

[Big_Pun]

we all know my opinion.... but here it is for smaller tanks i like LEDs low heat is the reason but the price to properly light a big tank it's expensive up front. and the whole DIY thing I think is a waste of time. just bite the bullet and buy something a company has poured hours and lots of cash into R&D and get a warranty also with it.
most of the big tanks with huge colonies you see with LEDs more than likely started out MH or T5.
so what size tank is this for?

[Flyride95]

My ultimate goal is a 100+ gal reef tank. To be able to grow sps.

[350gt]

My opinion...


I wish I could of tried 250 watt MH to give a better opinion... but here goes.

I like LEDS, I really like them..... the control ability with them, not having to replace bulbs and the gadget factor far out weighs growth FOR ME.......

I have had my AI SOLS for a few months now and everything is growing, at what rate? I wouldnt know, this is where I would have like to had the opportunity to have tried 250 watt MH on my system..... BUT ITS GROWING.... corals looks happy even though I went through a shock stage when I transferred from 150 watt MH..... but like I said its growing.... so they do work regardless what some might say...

FOr 100 gallon it will be pricey for manufactured units.... but IMO it will be well worth it over the guess work and ugly sight of DIY.... Unless you are inclined enough like a few on here to make them look legit.......

ever thought of going LED and MH?....


if you ever want to stop buy and check out my leds on my 110, LMK...... its not the best looking tank on here but to get an idea...

[ErikH]

MH

[reefreak]

I have a dual 150w led combo light it was made by tuan (psyko) an I love it it has a rapid led actinic supplement kit as the LEDs it's 9 3 watt LEDs running at 50% and they are bright.

[Flyride95]

So im guessing that MH has the highest coral growth rate?

[reefreak]

I would go with led if I had the money.

[g-ray]

You can grow an sps reef with t5's what fixture are you running?

[Flyride95]

Right now I have 2 really old fixtures coralife but old. Each one has 2 ho t5's. So I have 10k's in one unit and actinics in the other and there are no moonlights lol. I know they probly would but im just ready for something a little better is all.

[reefreak]

Got pictures or a link to the lights?

[reefreak]

From what I see in your build thread those are low output fixtures my dad has the same on his fowlr

[BBQHILLBILLY]

I remember using two 250MH 15k DE bulbs on a 180RR. They are a proven winner to grow anything. I never liked burning my hand or arm when doing work inside tank.
I never liked the heat. I allways had fans. The room was hot. I had a tornado of fans everywhere. Yep MH are the best. Tank was overheating. Allways running
the cooler. Yep I remember my coral where allways growing. I also like the room that I got with the MH compared to these tubes that were everywhere.
Yep I like LEDs.:bigsmile:

With love. BBQ

[Big_Pun]

I remember using two 250MH 15k DE bulbs on a 180RR. They are a proven winner to grow anything. I never liked burning my hand or arm when doing work inside tank.
I never liked the heat. I allways had fans. The room was hot. I had a tornado of fans everywhere. Yep MH are the best. Tank was overheating. Allways running
the cooler. Yep I remember my coral where allways growing. I also like the room that I got with the MH compared to these tubes that were everywhere.
Yep I like LEDs.:bigsmile:

With love. BBQ

how big was the room? I run 2x250 in the living room and don't have any heat issues, not a very god review IMO. you left things out like what equipment was in your tank did you have old high wattage pumps for returns and circulation.

run down on my tank 2x250 4x54w t5, both on from 11am-9pm. two sicce 2 return , two sicce 1.5 reactors, skimmer pump is a sicce. mp40's for circulation. house kept at 78 all summer tank stayed at 79-80 with one clip on fan. room was never hot. my point is you need to look at your whole system before you blame lights for heat issues, be pro active. old used pumps run hot, same goes for power heads. if you plan and set up correctly , lil research you can keep your tank from having issues.

it comes down to what you want, and budget can do. I like the new fixtures I've always said there was color spectrum missing in LEDs. now AI and ecotech and vertex have added new colors to deal with this. Emily's new led is really great, coral look good. it has red green blue white UV. but on a tank as big as my 150 spending 3x950 for Radions to properly light my tank is crazy.

[alton]

Large Tanks - #1 way to light is with MH with great reflectors or pendants. I added stunner strips so I can enjoy and light my tank for 13 hours a day. 750 watts for 300 gallon tank at 2 1/2 watts per gallon very hard to replicate even with LED matching watt for watt. My tank temperature raises only one degree with lights on during the day. It does add heat to my living room making my ac work harder but so would 750 watts of LED or T5's. LEDs do not add heat to the tank because the heat is on the back side, but they still add heat to the room.
Medium to small tanks 75 gallons or less. Here is where sometimes we waste energy when we think we need 250w x 2 on a 75 when we could of used 2 x 175w? I ran into an issue with my 40 gallon this summer because my T5 light with 4 x 39w lamps was over heating my 40 gallon tank. With the Coral life lamps it was fine just very low par, but when I added ATI lamps my par went up by 75% but so did the heat. On my 65 gallon I call it my experiment tank I light it with 1 reef capable marineland LED and 1 adjustable LED. Total watts on this is about 75 watts used. It grows GSP like crazy, LPS do not do very well, SPS is a hit or a miss, most do not look very good but grow slow, but one SPS looks good and grows well?
In closing LED is the future, as prices come down and as we continue to improve the wave lengths and colors I think it will continue to light more tanks. One thing we have to remember on LEDS the same company that test them and makes the statment they will last 10 years also says they lose intensity of 3% per year so if you have LEDs do not run them at 100%. Start them at 80% and increase a little each year until you get to 100% by checking your light levels with a meter each year.

[350gt]

The thing is you wouldn't need to match watt for watt, thus reducing heat and energy spent...

One 75 watt AI sol has been proven to produce as much par or more than a 250 watt MH..... Now spectrum is what is missing from the original AI sol. But with LEDs being fairly new, they will continue to get better. I haven't played with the AI vega or read any reviews but I am looking forward to seeing what the new colors actually do....

Asfar as my AI sols, I have absolutely no heat with 3 units..... AT ALL!

I got way more heat than I needed when I added 2 48" T5's.....


2 54 watt t5 produced more heat than 3 75 watt led units that produce way more par than the T5s.......

[350gt]

Comparing mH with a marineland led fixture is like comparing a Porsche with Mazda miata...

[mkengr45]

Comparing mH with a marineland led fixture is like comparing a Porsche with Mazda miata...

I agree 100%. Don't even put the marineland "reef capable" (yeah sure) LEDs in the same ballpark as AI, Radion, Mitras, etc...

[alton]

[QUOTE=350gt;883917]The thing is you wouldn't need to match watt for watt, thus reducing heat and energy spent...

One 75 watt AI sol has been proven to produce as much par or more than a 250 watt MH..... Now spectrum is what is missing from the original AI sol. But with LEDs being fairly new, they will continue to get better. I haven't played with the AI vega or read any reviews but I am looking forward to seeing what the new colors actually do....

Asfar as my AI sols, I have absolutely no heat with 3 units..... AT ALL!

Can you cover a 6' x 3' Tank with 3 x AI Sols? When I sent an email to AI they told me 6 to 9 units cover my 300, yes they advertise as much par as a 250MH, but everyone knows you can not cover the same area.

[Big_Pun]

also that claim about as much par as a 250w is dead center on the AI. the spread of good par numbers on a 250w mh is a lot wider than a led fixtures, thats why a 4 foot MH fixture works fine on my 5 foot tank.

[350gt]

[QUOTE=350gt;883917]The thing is you wouldn't need to match watt for watt, thus reducing heat and energy spent...

One 75 watt AI sol has been proven to produce as much par or more than a 250 watt MH..... Now spectrum is what is missing from the original AI sol. But with LEDs being fairly new, they will continue to get better. I haven't played with the AI vega or read any reviews but I am looking forward to seeing what the new colors actually do....

Asfar as my AI sols, I have absolutely no heat with 3 units..... AT ALL!

Can you cover a 6' x 3' Tank with 3 x AI Sols? When I sent an email to AI they told me 6 to 9 units cover my 300, yes they advertise as much par as a 250MH, but everyone knows you can not cover the same area.

I see why not at the right height...

I was told I would need the minimum 4 on my 5' tank..... And 3 is working well at a foot awl, and no spot lighting..

[350gt]

also that claim about as much par as a 250w is dead center on the AI. the spread of good par numbers on a 250w mh is a lot wider than a led fixtures, thats why a 4 foot MH fixture works fine on my 5 foot tank.

They don't claim..... I tested with a par meter myself.....

But yes I give you that the consistent spread is not as good as MH's...

But I could add 4 units and they would not add up to the heat build up on one of the 250.. And that's a fact cause I have had 250s when I first started and now the AI sols...

[alton]

To keep me from looking what size tank do you have 3 on? And do you keep SPS on the bottom under 24" inches of water. I am not here to knock LED I have seen some nice tanks with them, I am following Texreefers thread. It is just the cost savings from going to LEDs on very large tanks I am not sure if they would ever pay off. If I had to replace my pendants, lamps and ballast on my 300 today I would spend $930. Six Vegas $3,100? And that is 600 watts of LED versus 825 watts of MH. 225 watts x 8hrs a day x 365 x 5 years x 10 cents a KWH = $328.50 savings with LED. Lamps are lasting me an average of 16 months so figure 11 lamps at $75 = $825
So $825 + 328.50 (additional Electricity) = $930 for new fixtures = $2,083.50 a savings of a little over $1,000 to stay with MH. And it is not like AI gives you a 5 year warranty? And I will agree the Marineland fixture is not the best but it lights up my 65 pretty well and the fact I did not pay cash for it it works for me, for now.

[350gt]

Yes I have 3 on a five foot tank....

I can keep SPS on the sand bed, I don't have any on there but the few that have fallen from there spots will do okay but never left them there long enough to know forsure

[Flyride95]

Wow this is turning into a debate. I guess what im being told here is to light my 100gal aquarium the best would be mh when it comes to cost effectiveness?

[350gt]

And I am not knocking MH either....


Both have there own benefits..... I would easily swap to them if LEDs weren't working out for me...

[350gt]

Wow this is turning into a debate. I guess what im being told here is to light my 100gal aquarium the best would be mh when it comes to cost effectiveness?

That will always happen when there is talk about the 2. Especially when there is a few false claims about either..

Yes upfront cost effectiveness, MH all the way!!!..... Some say its the easy way too but more factors in to it then just lighting.... LEDs are sometimes complicated/... Like any new technology...

[Big_Pun]

And I am not knocking MH either....


Both have there own benefits..... I would easily swap to them if LEDs weren't working out for me...


same here i see LED's slowly coming around.... hopefully priceing will level out but the fixtures i like such as radion pro at over 900 a piece, and 3 grand for a vertex is a lil crazy, my fixture after upgrading ballast is still under 1000 invested. and if got the lumenbright fixture i would be at 1700 total after bulbs. also i like not having too many gadgets to figure color i buy a 14 k bulb and some t5s and i know what color ill have.

[350gt]

That is true Chris.....


I too hate figuring the colors......

I hope when they release that app for the AIs, they will have preprogrammed settings like the ecotechs..

But the color I have right now is close on to what I saw at Randy's under his Phoenix 14k.... With a little more pink cause of the purple plus...

[350gt]

But nothing compares to the cool factor of them slowly progressing in color though out the day..... Mine starts off with a deep blue then turns to light blue, to a color close 10 k, then in reverse order till dark...... It also has a lunar cycle, so somedays its a bright moon light or completely off depending on the day of the year.....

[Texreefer]

I see it like this:
Any tank 24" or less in depth and 4' or less in length can be more effectively and efficiently be lit with LEDs
Any tank Deeper and or longer than above can more effectively and efficiently be lit with MH
any decision to break with the above rule is purely a personal choice as to which type of light they like the best

[Big_Pun]

T5 is another good option but a lil tricky to find color of you want..... rule with t5 is 1 bulb per 3 inches of tank width. there isnt too many companys making fixtures also, ATI new power module uses 4 t5 and 3w led and fully dimmable including t5. then there others floating around out there, i did t5 on my 70, 6 bulb,27 inches deep and i did sps on sand bed.

[alton]

Wow this is turning into a debate. I guess what im being told here is to light my 100gal aquarium the best would be mh when it comes to cost effectiveness?

Depending on the foot print of your 100? Is it 4' x 2' x 22" H? if so you may get by with 2 Vegas? Versus 2 x 250w MH. That is why in my debate I stay with very large tanks because on the small to medium-large tanks, LED's start to look pretty good in any arguement.
Taking my old formula 2 x 250w MH pendants $620 + 350 watts more in electricity in (5 years) $511 more plus lamps 7.5 x $75 = $562.50. MH = $1,693.00 versus LED $1,000. So in this case LEDs would be cheaper in 5 years. And just incase you decide on 175w MH $620 + $268 more in Electricity cost + Lamps $562.50. MH = $1,450 versus the $1,100 for 2 Vegas

[alton]

I forgot in talking with one of my lighting reps this week the new LEDS coming out will last 100,000 hours which means only losing 1 1/2% per year, versus the 3%

[350gt]

What about dimmable led strips with MH's best of both worlds?...


I always wondered what happened with the AI flair... It looked promising to replace t5s as the supplement to MH but was never released...


I like the panorama pro led strips, I once had three 12" pros on my 110 and they looked great but would get washed out when the MHs would come on... Maybe because they were only 1 watt.. I would like to see 2-4 of the 48" strips with there new controller teamed up with 2 250 Phoenix 14k bulbs..

I would not waste any money on stunners on a tank that size, although I did like them too, they didn't do much for the tank...

[alton]

The deal with the stunners on my 300 is for nothing more than looks and being able to enjoy my tank longer. I know there is not enough PAR to ever think they could grow anything but when they come on, all my corals will open up. So for about 40 watts of electricity I can enjoy my tank 5 hours more a day.

[350gt]

Lol that was not meant towards you.

I also had stunners, they were great on my aqua pod and 20 L but did nothing on my 110....

Try the panoramas if you can ever find some used.

[allan]

I had stunners on my 190. They did well for aesthetic reasons, but being who I am I only used blue and those were just too blue.

I use the marineland blue submersibles to provide that actinic look, four of them over 350 gallon tank. Really does light it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcnkt_ellis]

I have no idea about par readings on them, but I have 2 48" stunners on a 150 tall (48x24x30) with the reflectors ecoxotic sells on both and I get great coverage on the whole tank, even down to the sand bed. They're the only supplemental lighting I have and with 2 250w MH 20k bulbs I have excellent growth for all coral types.

[350gt]

Hate to bring this thread but up.....



but I was curious if my lighting can handle SPS on the sand bed...


Well I mentioned I had some low but not on the sand bed, I forgot that a piece fell of from it position on top of a rock. It had been on the sand bed a couple of days before this thread...


here it is today looking all happy...

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/gsrt5/ECB9F013-B1ED-41E4-81E3-E3C127A3F2CE-1352-000000B0C95DD328.mp4

don't know what it is.... But it's been a slow grower for me.... Real slow!!! Lol
Like Eitherway its 22" below water level and add 12" more for the lights... So 34" below the light, and still happy....

Oh and the video is from my iPhone.... Plan to bus out the camera this week...

[Big_Pun]

well here's milli growth this was in my 70 under t5 pic is from jan , tank was torn down in march and second pic is from aug. also this is before add kalk reactor.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/03/4ugyda7u.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/03/4una9a4a.jpg

[350gt]

Nice hopefully this guy stays in place, so I can get more pictures.. The little piece behind him I thought was dead.. Idk what it is but it too fell and I left it laying on its side in the sand... He is brightening up and I see some growth, I might prop him up too...