Kalkwasser / Limewater

[rrasco]

I am thinking about running kalk in my ATO. I was curious who is using kalk and had a few questions.

What lime are you using? From where?
How do you dose? ATO, dosing pumps?
How big is your system and what concentration do you dose? Stocking (light, medium, heavy)?

Any advice for starting with kalk? Any 'gotchas'?

[Sherita]

I dose kalk in my ato for all of my tanks. Specs on the three systems currently running:

72g (total volume 100g) reef, heavily stocked with sps and lps, some softies/polyps. This tank uses 2 TBSP kalk/5g topoff water.
65g (total volume 90g) frag system, heavy on sps. Also 2 TBSP kalk/5g topoff water
200g frag system (total volume 250g). This system has everything in it, sps/lps/softies/zoas/leathers. Leaning heavily towards chalices/montis and zoas. Uses 3 TBSP kalk/5g topoff.

All topoffs are ato, using aqualifter pumps. I buy my kalk from BRS and store in an airtight container. I use only rodi water for my tanks, and I mix the kalk fresh each time I refill the containers. My alk and calcium maintain at good levels, and I have very nice growth and color on all of my corals.

Pitfalls........the biggest one I have found is to make sure you have a double float switch controlling your ato, to prevent "runaway" overfilling when the float switch hangs and dumps all your kalkwasser into your tank. Corals don't like this, I know from personal experience.

The way I started out was to dissolve 1 TBSP kalk in my topoff water, then monitor my alk and ca levels, I adjusted upward accordingly until I found the right amount of kalk to maintain my reefs.

I do NOT dose anything else. I rely on the kalk to maintain my alk and ca, and regular, routine water changes to maintain mg and trace elements. I have run my tanks this way for nearly 2 years without incident (other than the runaway ato, which will never happen again).

Be aware, running kalk in your ato means you have to be vigilant on maintenance. Kalk will cake in the tubing for the ato pump if you don't keep an eye on it (it takes weeks for it to do this). Once a month, I pull my tubing out of the tank and drop the intake and outflow into a glass of vinegar and let it run. This will remove the residue and keep things working smoothly.

Hope this helps.

[Big_Pun]

just started with a kalk reactor. im still in beginging stages so im monitoring still, i started with 2 1/2 tbs 8g gallons of top off so far ph has topped at 8.0 in 3 days and has dropped(due to santuration being lower) its a huge reactor but i think 3 tbs should last about 5-7 days. my reactor is mixed 4 times a day for 1 min. i like this better cause all i have to do is unscrew cap and put a couple tbs of kalk and leave it. im going to set up an alarm that will shut off ato through reactor is it gets to high and switch over to pump and only pump fresh water.

[rrasco]

Thanks for the feedback.

I forgot to ask that if you are using kalk, are you also dosing anything else like 2-part? Sherita you reminded me by answering this already.

So 2TBSP for the whole 5 gallons? From what I was reading, lots of info I saw said to start at 1TBSP/gallon, then work your way up. I'm trying to find where I read that, maybe it was 1TSP/gallon that was recommended.

I refuse to run a single float switch, I have all duals.

Good to know about the ATO line caking up. I would hate to have to remove it to clean it, it's piped through the wall and strapped to the WC system feed, but if it happens, it's just a couple zip ties and reworking things. Gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.

Once I have my pH meter and my relay-controlled PDU finished, I will build in an additional fail-safe to kill the ATO if pH increases to a set level. Just in case.

[Big_Pun]

i use brightwells kalk+2 it adds strotium and mag. until i see what levels do week to week i wont be dosing anything else but trace elements

[rrasco]

That's the kalk you use, or you use that in addition to kalk? Reading the product desc it looks like kalk, calcium hyroxide.

[allan]

What Sherita said about caking in the lines. Very true, and I let this get away from me twice. Then I started flushing the line each week when I did the water change. I'd do this by connecting the line directly to my RODI which allows me to put enough flow through the line to rinse it.

Additionally, your drip into the sump (IMO) should be routed through a traditional float system raised just over what your top line is in your sump. That way it will always drip when needed, but most of all, should your floats fail and your system start dumping into the tank, it will stop at that predetermined line that you set it to. Then you only have to worry about evoporative loss. When you come home and see that your water level is at that height you will know right away that you've a problem and it isn't/won't be at the cost of your coral.

I dose Kalkwasser from BRS, and I just say that it has Strotium in it, don't really know if it does. But it does make me feel better about it. :)

[Zen Reef]

I just started dosing Kalk using a brs dual reactor converted to a Kalk reactor. The angle I'm using is to fill the the first chamber 3/4 full of Kalk+2 and feeding the reactors with ro water from my top off container using a separate aqua lifter from my aqua lifter used for top off. By pushing only fresh water thru the reactor, I'm avoiding sending saturated water through the aqua lifter and feed line. This should avoid any Kalk build up in the pump and lines. The lime water then fills the second chamber and overflows into the sump. In theory the second chamber should be filled with saturated limewater which is what overflows out of the 3/8" orifice. Also in order to force the water thru the Kalk in the first chamber, I swapped the inlet and outlet labeled on the brs reactor. So my inlet is the "outlet" side of the reactor and vice versa. I've only been running this set up for a few days but so far my ph is maintaining at 8.2, alk 10, and calcium 480. Oh another note, the aqualifter is controlled by the reef keeper on "controller" and the ph probe.

[Big_Pun]

That's the kalk you use, or you use that in addition to kalk? Reading the product desc it looks like kalk, calcium hyroxide.

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/kalk2.php

[rrasco]

What size lines is everyone using? My ATO uses 5/8" hose, I think, whatever fits on a rio 600. Do you think that would cake up? I know you're supposed to add kalk slowly, will the ATO add too much at once? It comes on for a squirt about every hour.

I may end up using a drip method instead of in the ATO, I'm going to weigh the pros/cons, but I really don't want yet another device running to my system. However, I think it will be easier trying to keep a dedicated container for kalk mixed right instead of trying to add RODI/lime to the ATO reservoir every time it gets low. Thanks for the ideas too Allan on the drip method, that makes a little more sense as a fail safe, and I like redundancy.

[Big_Pun]

If ato turns on alot or go through alot of top off start off with a low saturated mix then test as you go through ATO water

[ErikH]

There are no real "gotchas" or "gems" with running kalk through your ATO, although I might say that running kalk through the ato as a whole is a "gem".

It's simple, use 2 LEVEL tablespoons per 5g jug. Anything over that would be waste. 2 level TBSP in 5g should make the ph of that water 12.0

Now if you pour the whole 5g into your tank at once, you may spike your tank depending on size. I run mine through a Tom's Aqualifter. I timed it to figure out how long it takes to empty that 5g jug, and set my controller to dispense that amount over the course of the night.

I evap 5g a night, so this is supremely easy for me.

If you have an ATO based on floats or sensors, and are not running a timed style ATO like I am, you have it even easier. Put your ATO on a timer so it doesn't run until lights out. Hook up your pump, and watch it the first night or two to see how it affects your PH. Even if your PH goes up to high, it will precipitate out, so there's no real worry, as long as you aren't doing that daily.

[rrasco]

I have an ATO based on float sensors and not a timer.

Why do you suggest I put the ATO on a timer until lights out? That sounds like it would end up adding the kalk/ATO at a higher dose since it didn't run during the day, thus needing more topoff water, causing a more drastic pH swing. One thing I keep seeing when reading about kalk is 'slow'. Any reason I can't run it 24/7 with kalk?

This is a 105 FWIW.

[ErikH]

You could run it all day, no problem. The reason people recommend after lights out is to combat the alk and ph dip that occurs naturally after your lights turn off, thus making it a more gradual drop. That's the reason I run an aqualifter as well, it very slowly fills the tank. I know the JBJ ATOs make a noise to let you know when the top off is on, and they kick off after about 5g. Not sure if the Tunzes run the same way. Search for some of the Randall Holmes Farley articles about running it, they're very good, albeit at times confusing as all get out.

[rrasco]

Okay, cool. My ATO is homebrew: autotopoff.com switches and a power head. I already run my fuge light 24/7 to combat nightly pH swings.

[Sherita]

My ato's are run with aqualifter pumps (1/4" tubing) and they run throughout the day and night as needed. They make no noise that I can hear. My sump lighting is on a reverse cycle, which seems to control my ph at night. I like running it on demand, since it avoids salinity swings that can really peeve off some corals. To me it also seems to keep my ca level, and my alk has always been spot on, no matter when I check it (I use a hanna checker).

Dosing kalk in the ATO to me is just about as easy as it could possibly get. I refill my reservoir as needed, drop the suction line from the aqualifter in the reservoir, and walk away. I don't have to worry about a kalk stirrer kicking on at the wrong time and dumping concentrated kalk solution in my tank, kalk reactor going nuts, or maintaining yet another piece of equipment.

[rrasco]

Chris, how has kalk+2 been working out for you? I'm trying to decide which kalk I am going to use.

[Big_Pun]

love it !!!!!! one more time love it!! coral are very happy now that ph stop swinging like a monkey :rofl: color is better may be strotium or just a balanced system, ill give it another 2 weeks and i can give a growth statement. but all in all im happy with it

[LuckySingh]

i hve been running a kalk reactor from last 2 years and coudnt be happier....my tunze ato is connected with1/4" hosing with two back flow prevention valves all the way out to kalk reactor with feeds my sump.....my ato turns on several times a day maybe couple times an hours and feeds through the kalk reactor on a very slow basis...my ph is always steady acround 7.9 at night and 8.1 in the morning..lately i my ph has been droping down to 7.8 at night but i guess mainly because its kalk requirement is been going up since i been stocking my tank now.....so i'll be adding an extra cup of kalk in my reactor maybe next week....

[LuckySingh]

i believe kalk+2 is brightwells product and has more magnesium in it too....i use this is aswell

[rrasco]

Do you know if Luis carries kalk+2?

Lucky, have you had any issues with your ATO caking up with the kalk?

[Big_Pun]

Do you know if Luis carries kalk+2?

there really isnt anything i dont get from louis, reason being i like to buy stuff i can readily get and find someone who keeps it in stock

[LuckySingh]

i use two back flow prevention valves from brs and now it dosnt back siphon as before....i never put kalk in my ato container bc it'll kill the pump eventually...
is this what u were asking for??

[allan]

+2 Kills the Pump. I went through two pumps before I stopped dosing that way.

[LuckySingh]

usually all the brands work same in kalk...i guess kalk2 is a little bit on the expensive side and i am moving on to the brs bulk kalk since my system demands has gne up..i am sure a lot of members here also hve home recipe for kalk aswell which just works fine...depending upon the size of tank and demand with just the regular water changes and dripping kalk can keep up with all the levels such as mag cal and alk...

[Big_Pun]

i think if you let it settle in a seperate container then pour that into ATO tank and leave behind the left over kalk, you shouldnt have too much left over powder.... but best way is a reactor as it pumps fresh water into it and and saturated water is over flowed into sump. i have a tunze kalk reactor needs a lid if your interested i wouldnt know how to get lid, ill contact tunze see what they can do.

[Big_Pun]

kalk plus 2 contains mag and strotium read this article and make your own choice

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/chemistry

[sergiotami]

Anyone have a Detailed Setup guide? I currently use BRS 2 part mix....:)

[rrasco]

Yes, Lucky. I was referring to it killing the pump. Don't want that.

I really don't want a THIRD reactor running on my system. Kalk has been an attractive solution to dosing as it's supposed to be cheap and easy. If I start throwing more equipment at it I'm not sure it adheres to that criteria anymore. I'm not completely ruling this option out, just resisting it.

I'm thinking about a DIY drip system, but I'm not into using soda/milk jugs on my tank.

[rrasco]

Anyone have a Detailed Setup guide? I currently use BRS 2 part mix....:)

What do you want to know? This is a great article by RHF.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

Essentially you slowly add a diluted calcium hydroxide solution to the system over the course of the day to keep pH, Alk, and Cal levels stable via one of the various delivery systems. You would still use 2-part solutions to make more drastic changes to levels as kalk can cause major pH swings with large doses.

[Big_Pun]

brotha i felt the same way i waited and waited but as my coral grew my demands grew and dosing two part was getting too expensive. and the reactor i got is huge but o-well. the tunze one is very small fits inside my current reactor with room to spare.

[rrasco]

I caved and ordered a kalk reactor. I've had unopened BRS kw sitting in my fish room for a while now but I've still been on my 2-part regimen. I am a little nervous changing since what I have been doing is working, but I'm tired of dosing daily and worrying about forgetting to do it. Dosing pumps are not the route I wanted to take right now.

Chris, can you give updated feedback on your opinion of kalk now that you've had some time to see what it can do?

[rrasco]

17239

[Big_Pun]

I started dosing two part along with my kalk a very small amount but it keeps the levels right at or lil above where I want it 440-460ppm on cal, kalk is at 7-8 and ph holding at 7.8-8.1. I have real high demands as my tank is packed with sps and some LPS, I also feed coral heavy.

[rrasco]

I'm going to have to do a lot of testing again to find where it keeps my levels, but it should be worth it.

My biggest dilemma right now is determining where to put the reactor. I know the outlet doesn't have a lot of pressure and should be gravity fed, but I wanted to put it in the fish room, so we'll see if I can mount it higher than the sump and let gravity do the work through the wall.