20L not looking good, need ur help!

[Milly]

Yesterday afternoon I came home to my purple tip valida colony looking a bit faded, noticed there was an emerald crab in it and took him out, this morning I awoke to a completely white valida, with a nasty purplish/red film all over it. No bueno!! When I got home this afternoon, I noticed my green pocilla has a small white spot (dead) on it as well :(

Currently housing in a 20L with a 36" fixture w/ 4 HO T5's ( 2 blue plus, 1 10k and 1 fiji purple) and a 250w MH that is set to run from 11-4 with a home depot fan that kicks on at the same time. Running an Aquaclear 70 modified with a refugium w/macro and your regular blue/white filter medium which is changed out every 3-4 weeks. Temperature stays between 76-77 degrees throughout the day.

5 gallon water changes every saturday or sunday, using Oceanic salt..everything else in the tank is looking good.

Livestock includes:
1 4 bar damsel
1 neon dotty back
1 green mandarin ( eating frozen food)
1 diamond goby
2 emerald crabs
and various red hermits

Ran parameters about 30 minutes ago:

PH : looks between 8.2-8.4 hard to tell
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates 0ppm
Phosphates 0.0ppm
Calcium 500

I do a daily dosing of ESV two part calium & alkality buffer and no i dont have a test for alkalinity.

My ora red planet is faded a bit and has a small section on the frag plug thats has the same film, not sure if it was getting too much light so i set it underneath one of my frag racks.

Should I do a water change anyway with normal parameters? My dad suggested checking the PH early morning before the lights come on to see if it's changing.

[CoryDude]

Yeah, check for night/day ph swings. Would also suggest testing alk too, but with your calcium levels and ph, I bet your alk is fine. Bit, it's always good to know your alk, especially with acros.

The red cyano would suggest excess organics. Do you have a skimmer? That's also a lot of light for a 20 gallon.

[Big_Pun]

**** that's sucks... I would check alk, stop dosing, but simple things like salinity swings or ph swings too fast will freak them out

[Noob]

How do you keep your tank at 76-77 degree throughout the day with a 250w MH over the tank?
You said you do water changes every weekend but when do you refill the tank with fresh water? Im only asking because i have a 70w MH 10" over a 28g and i loos about a gallon every 2-3 days.

Is it possible for it to be brown jelly?
I remember i once had a candy-cane get it then it spread to a birdsnest colony.

[ErikH]

Something is out of whack. Water changes, 5g daily, and stop dosing. Small systems = quick swings

[Zen Reef]

I would stop dosing and monitor the calcium evaporation over a couple of weeks. I'm still deciding if I need to dose at all as I'm only getting a 20-40 ppm drop in calcium weekly. Weekly water changes have been keeping up with my system's demands. I couldn't imagine a younger tank that size taking up enough calcium to require daily dosing. Jmo.

[Milly]

How do you keep your tank at 76-77 degree throughout the day with a 250w MH over the tank?
You said you do water changes every weekend but when do you refill the tank with fresh water? Im only asking because i have a 70w MH 10" over a 28g and i loos about a gallon every 2-3 days.

Is it possible for it to be brown jelly?
I remember i once had a candy-cane get it then it spread to a birdsnest colony.

I use my RODI unit to top off daily evaporation and check salinity daily. Usually stays between 1024-1025

And this is how I get the temp to stay lowhttp://img.tapatalk.com/4b01ba7e-40fc-df2f.jpg

[Milly]

Tested PH this morning and dropped down to 8.0 and currently not running a skimmer

[Bill S]

I'd quit the dosing, and use regular water changes, until things improve. Make sure you don't have AEFW or redbugs, too.

[Milly]

I stopped dosing yesterday. Did a 7g water change yesterday. Things seem to be stable as of now. No growth on that dead spot on my pocilla. My Ora red planet doesn't have that jelly substance on it at all.

I'll continue doing 5g water changes until this weekend and watch for improvement.

Could there be "too much" light in the tank?

[ErikH]

Are you using a HQI? It's possible, are they browning out before they bleach? Typically browning out is from the lack of light. Fast bleaching is typically too much.

[ErikH]

I would stop dosing and monitor the calcium evaporation over a couple of weeks. I'm still deciding if I need to dose at all as I'm only getting a 20-40 ppm drop in calcium weekly. Weekly water changes have been keeping up with my system's demands. I couldn't imagine a younger tank that size taking up enough calcium to require daily dosing. Jmo.

+1

[Milly]

Are you using a HQI? It's possible, are they browning out before they bleach? Typically browning out is from the lack of light. Fast bleaching is typically too much.

Yes using HQI, the valida seemed to fade out and the completely bleach out in a matter of 2 days. Placement was off to the left side and on the sand bed wedge between 2 rocks. To
Give you an idea of how big it was, it's my avatar photo.

Havent seen any sign of red bugs or other types of bugs either, doin another water change once I finish topping off offy deer feeder for Bambi's daddy ;)

[Scutterborn]

I would dip them just to be sure. "Bleaching" is a common name we use to describe when an SPS coral dies. Bleaching is actually when a coral stresses and expels all of zooxanthella algae but remains alive. When SPS tissue recedes to nothingness, it's commonly believed to be a bacterial infection being the cause of death. I just picked up "The Reef Aquarium vol 3" by Delbeek and sprung. It's a really amazing book. It covers a vast amount of info.


- Ben -

[Scutterborn]

Also, I'm very sorry to hear about your Valida. I've become very fond of those colored sticks... Lol. I think your on the right track with water changes as well.


- Ben -

[reefreak]

Milly if you want i have a uv sterilizer you can borrow?

[Milly]

I would dip them just to be sure. "Bleaching" is a common name we use to describe when an SPS coral dies. Bleaching is actually when a coral stresses and expels all of zooxanthella algae but remains alive. When SPS tissue recedes to nothingness, it's commonly believed to be a bacterial infection being the cause of death. I just picked up "The Reef Aquarium vol 3" by Delbeek and sprung. It's a really amazing book. It covers a vast amount of info.


- Ben -

There wasnt any coot left nor polyps on the branches. :( I was really fond of that valida, had it since it was a 1" frag.

Would the uv sterilizer help? I guess it wouldn't hurt, is it a hob Jeremy?

[Scutterborn]

It's possible a UV would help. It would likely be a waterborne pathogen. Anything in the water passing through a UV will be damaged or killed (depending on the exposure time). That isn't a bad idea at all IMO.


- Ben -

[reefreak]

yes its a hob 36w uv sterilizer about 2ft tall

[Scutterborn]

yes its a hob 36w uv sterilizer about 2ft tall

Sounds like a potent UV sterilizer!


- Ben -

[reefreak]

potent?

[ErikH]

Milly, ask Deputy Dogg (D-O-Double G) for another frag! You know where that came from right? It probably came from my colony which came from Bill, and I think Ace before that. Crazy how the sticks move around the club. Where is Allan anyway? Since your mom told me about his new title, I keep singing "I shot the Sheriff" in my head. :)

[Scutterborn]

potent?

Strong, mighty, powerful.... Etc.


- Ben -

[Big_Pun]

i don't see any reason for a uv sterilizer,
it's more than likely a parameter problem or even a disease. like Cory and I have stated before sometimes when one acro goes others go. I suggest water change and carbon to remove anything released. something could have been sprayed in air, with testing you never know. even a that poly filter that's removes metals and other stuff

[reefreak]

Strong, mighty, powerful.... Etc.


- Ben -
oh lol

[Milly]

i don't see any reason for a uv sterilizer,
it's more than likely a parameter problem or even a disease. like Cory and I have stated before sometimes when one acro goes others go. I suggest water change and carbon to remove anything released. something could have been sprayed in air, with testing you never know. even a that poly filter that's removes metals and other stuff

I just put some more chemi pure carbon in and making water for another water change. At this point it's just a wait and see? Ugh!

[Scutterborn]

i don't see any reason for a uv sterilizer,
it's more than likely a parameter problem or even a disease. like Cory and I have stated before sometimes when one acro goes others go. I suggest water change and carbon to remove anything released. something could have been sprayed in air, with testing you never know. even a that poly filter that's removes metals and other stuff

I only disagree with the statement about the UV usefulness. The reason why it migrates from one acro to another is because the bacterial strain is transmitted through the water.


- Ben -

[Big_Pun]

what bacteria?? I've never ran a uv and over the years have had sps die with no repercussion to others. can you explain to me what free floating bacteria kill acros. if it was free floating wouldn't all sps be affected?

[Big_Pun]

really isn't our reef full of good and "bad" bacteria how does uv differentiate them. thats why i don't use them.

[allan]

The Valida came from Lorraine's tank about two and a half years go... or maybe three years ago. I can get her another frag or small colony of it, seems to be growing every where in the tank.

I don't think the UV would help, here is why.

That colony was in Milly's tank originally for about, what, two weeks? Maybe three? Browned out and the bottom turned white. I thought at the time that it was not enough light. She brought it back home (but not cassidy, oh no, not my dog) and we left it in my DT. The coral took about two or three weeks and finally had turned bright purple again, the tips that is. It was looking well. Then she took it back and maybe lasted a week, Milly? And now this.

I don't care for small tanks because they are so much less forgiving than the big ones. I would imagine that the skimmer is a big part of the problem, and I would even think that the lack of a sizable fuge/sump is also a contributing factor. Not that you can't make it work as it is, but lets face facts, the increased water volume and skimmer action will assist in providing a 'clean' environment for the coral.

I'm one of those dudes that I have a hard time looking past what I "think" is the obvious which would be a sump and skimmer. That isn't always the answer but I wouldn't be able to move onto anything else until those two were in place. I asked her to post up here because I'm really unsure as to why her corals are suffering, and I don't really have any advice.

Too much light would have a bleaching affect on the coral, but I believe what she has is an entire section turned white... almost like it spent the night cozied up against a stunner, or buried in the sand. The first time it seemed that the general appearance was a lack of light. I don't think that's the issue this time. And that the RP is fading, or turning light in coloration... is it only the tips? Because they get really white when they are growing. Did your zoas start getting bigger? Or are they still small?

either way, I've got replacement coral for you, Milly, just have to figure out what's going on.

[Scutterborn]

We do not have sufficient enough information to determine if it is even a bacterial infection let alone which of the thousands of strains it could be. The UV was brought up because we were looking at every possible reason as to why this could've happened. I never said it was certainly due to this reason. I only mentioned its possibility.


- Ben -

[Scutterborn]

After reading Allan's post, I recall speaking with him about that. Maybe it's an acclimation issue. Allan's light are considerably higher AWL than Milly's. IMO, the best bet is carbon, water changes and a close eye.


- Ben -

[reefreak]

i just offered the uv because id rather her be safe than sorry.

[Scutterborn]

i just offered the uv because id rather her be safe than sorry.

Agreed


- Ben -

[Big_Pun]

After reading Allan's post, I recall speaking with him about that. Maybe it's an acclimation issue. Allan's light are considerably higher AWL than Milly's. IMO, the best bet is carbon, water changes and a close eye.


- Ben -

AWL??

[allan]

Above water level

A loose adaptation of the military paratrooper's agl, above ground level.

[ErikH]

Above Water Line....

[Scutterborn]

Above water level

A loose adaptation of the military paratrooper's agl, above ground level.

It's only loose for a green land lubber!! Lol!!!

Semper fidelis, Allan!!


- Ben -

[Big_Pun]

what happen to "fixture is ___inches above water""fixture mounting height" lazy military people

[allan]

Lol, Chris you'd be SOL if we went TDY during any OA insertion, all the while you'd be scarfing down MREs till COB as an EPW.

And I'd appreciate it if you'd ease off my six.

:)

[Milly]

One evening at BHVH we had a dog come in that was ADR ending up with HGE and on top of that it was PUPD with an ugly case of MVD. Needless to say poor lil guy is in heaven now :P

[Scutterborn]

Ah! You guys kill me!! Lmbo!! It's all in good fun!


-Ben-

[klwheat]

One evening at BHVH we had a dog come in that was ADR ending up with HGE and on top of that it was PUPD with an ugly case of MVD. Needless to say poor lil guy is in heaven now :P


Lol, Chris you'd be SOL if we went TDY during any OA insertion, all the while you'd be scarfing down MREs till COB as an EPW.

And I'd appreciate it if you'd ease off my six.

:)

bwahahahahaha.....you guys kill me.....lol
:rofl::lmao2:

[350gt]

did he just say insertion? Chris becareful....

[Scutterborn]

did he just say insertion? Chris becareful....

Lmbo!!!


- Ben -

[Ms_Big_Pun]

Bring it my house and I will make it all Beautimus;););)

[Ms_Big_Pun]

One evening at BHVH we had a dog come in that was ADR ending up with HGE and on top of that it was PUPD with an ugly case of MVD. Needless to say poor lil guy is in heaven now :P

Omg, I was going to as you WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN!?!?! LOL...clearly I didn't read the entire thread until the end. I like ADR cases ;) We had an ADR lab come in with RF

[Big_Pun]

im worried what his six is ... i can run fast when im scared and allan talkin about insertion is scary!!

[Scutterborn]

im worried what his six is ... i can run fast when im scared and allan talkin about insertion is scary!!

Oh dang... My eyes are watering up, I'm laughing so hard!!!


- Ben -

[350gt]

Lol!

Let's just say six and insertion should never be used in the same sentence on maast....

[Milly]

My pops suggests I should setup my 29g as a sump and start up the skimmer that I have.

Gotta find an overflow and acrylic to setup baffles...project for Sunday. Anyone know anyone with an overflow setup?

[350gt]

I have one but it's missing the over flow box...

Should be okay without if it's just a temp thing...

[Scutterborn]

That's sounds like a good idea. Water volume is key to mitigating parameter fluctuations.


- Ben -

[Scutterborn]

I bet Shane has a few laying around somewhere! Lol!


- Ben -

[Milly]

Honestly I know absolutely NOTHING about sumps and overflows. Hoping my dad will chime in soon to say exactly what I'll need haha

[350gt]

Ya I have to get home and check it out.... If u can use it, your more than welcome to it..

[350gt]

I bet Shane has a few laying around somewhere! Lol!


- Ben -


Actually scoop this up from Shane.... Lol