TANK CRASH!... still crashing!

[Kristy]

Woke up to find the 210g reef tank crashing. Many inverts dead, 2 fish dead so far (still checking) and almost all SPS dead. Could be more to follow, not sure.

Tested and we have some ammonia and some nitrite present. Does anyone have some Amquel or similar emergency product to lock in the ammonia?

We are doing a 40g water change with 40 more to follow shortly and will be running carbon while we try to figure out what happened.

[Scutterborn]

I think I have some zeolite granules. Headed to the house now to check.

[Mr Cob]

sorry to hear about this, no help on the Amquel but if you need a place to put any stock just me know.

[koa25]

I can store some stuff in my tank as well kristy. Sorry I don't have and Amquel or the like. Let me know. I can be home in ten if need be.

[RayAllen]

That bites. Any leathers that could have released toxins? Pump or powerheads suck anything up and kill it- anemone etc. Electrical shortage shock the tank- pumps, heaters etc. If the tank seemed fine last night id check electrics 1st. Hopefully you can figure it out. Wish I could be of more help.

[Europhyllia]

I have a big bottle of Prime. Let me know if you need me to bring it in.
WOW!!! I wonder what happened???

[Scutterborn]

Pm'd

[Big_Pun]

if you have containers I have 30 gallons of Rodi

[Kristy]

Thanks for all the support and offers guys. Here is an update....

40g water change done. 40g more salted and waiting, will do another water change in a few. Chris, will let you know if we need the 30, not sure at this point.

Still trying to figure out the chain of events. We also thought of the electrical and we are still investigating that. One Vortech is out, but the dry side contains all the electrical so it would have to be something that the Vortech was plugged in to that surged, etc.

Another theory was that our cleaning lady was here yesterday and might have put some chemical in the air, but the tank looked great last night and this is sudden and dramatic, so that does not seem as likely. And then there is the Vortech issue mentioned above, so that is what we are looking into now...

Ben is on his way over with the zeolite granules and we will just keep working on it til we have some improvement. Never seen so much bright white cap. Ugh.

[Kristy]

False alarm on the Vortech. Duh. Stupid thing had come unplugged. Still trying to figure this out. Going to test again to see if nitrites and ammonia are getting worse or getting better with the water change.

[allan]

I don't have any of those things that you need, but I do have a container and a place to put stuff if you need it stored. A lot of space actually.

This really sucks.

[Scream311]

Oh My WOW,

i had to look at the Screen Name twice on this Thread, it didnt make sense to me to See Kristy and Tank Crash in the Same subject.

If you and Mike need any Extra Hands id be Glad to swing by today after work, i dont have any Chemicals to give you unfortunately but could def help aid in any Investigations

[ElChicano]

I have 2- 55 gallon containers you can use if needed.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[LuckySingh]

sorry to hear that kristy...
i hve been through a crash and know how it feels...
dead live stock will slightly raise the amonia what u seeing....dnt know if u r using a calcium reactor or so leakage can unbalance ph can crash the tank!!!

i will also take all the filter and reactors off line and run fresh carbon untill u figure whats goin on..
i think i do hve some salt water ready also at my house..lmk if u need some

[grouch]

That suck you have such a beautiful tank. I can start running RO/DI tonight if you run out. Let me know if there is anything I can do.

[reefreak]

I have a 20 high or a 20 long you can use for live stock to temporarily use lmk

[tebstan]

Sorry to hear this! Are things looking better yet? How are the levels?

Zeolite doesn't really work in saltwater... at least not the way the packaging claims. It works more as a nitrate sponge than an ammonia reducer.

Amquel is great in an emergency. I use other products as water conditioners, but when there is an ammonia spike nothing beats Amquel.

Amquel makes the ammonia non toxic but doesn't completely remove it from the bacteria cycle. Water changes will still be needed to balance things out - don't trust the numbers on the test result, some test kits won't give accurate readings after using Amquel. (I don't remember which ones! sorry)

[Zack]

Kristy, do you think it may have been a power outage? I was at my grandmothers house last night doing some work on their computers and about 2:00 am their power went out for a little under two hours. They live about 2 streets away from you.

[hobogato]

that is terrible. i hope you find out what caused it.

[RayAllen]

Kristy, do you think it may have been a power outage? I was at my grandmothers house last night doing some work on their computers and about 2:00 am their power went out for a little under two hours. They live about 2 streets away from you.

thats easy to check. Take a look at your timers and see if they are off.. We did have some freak winds coming though our neighbor hood last night so maybe.

[Kristy]

Appreciate all the support, especially appreciate Ben for bringing some supplies by. This is no fun at all.... :cry_smile:

There is no clear obvious cause so far but we are still working through possibilities and testing things. First priority was to get the ammonia locked and do some water changes, run some carbon, try to save some lives. Fish loss is still at 2 and we'd like to keep it that way obviously. Caps and SPS mostly dead but strangely there a couple of them that seem normal. All LPS looks mighty, mighty angry right now, hoping those defense mechanisms give them a chance but it's way too soon to call.

We've done 2 x 40g water changes and three or four sets of water testing. Ammonia does not seem as high and nitrites are getting higher, so it appears to be going through that cycle as we do our best to get the toxic stuff out. Of course when you don't know what is causing it, you can't be sure that you're not dumping more in at the same time. :at_wits_end:

Most of the fish are staying hidden and come out occasionally to see what the heck is going on, but are not looking like they are struggling. It would be even more of a stressor to try to pull them out, but we definitely will here soon if we see the chemical levels getting worse or not improving. I might try to post our trouble shooting process as we pull apart this mystery, especially if we don't start to come up with some answers.

[350gt]

Oh My WOW,

i had to look at the Screen Name twice on this Thread, it didnt make sense to me to See Kristy and Tank Crash in the Same subject.


Same here...


Hope all goes well. I don't have much to offer at the moment but some ro water if needed.

[Kristy]

Kristy, do you think it may have been a power outage? I was at my grandmothers house last night doing some work on their computers and about 2:00 am their power went out for a little under two hours. They live about 2 streets away from you.

Hmmm.... interesting thought, but there is no other evidence of a power outage at our house (timers, other clocks, etc.) and we do have some systems in place if that does occur, like a battery backup on our Vortech powerheads to keep oxygenated. When we've had power outages before nothing like this has ever happened, but of course there is a first time for everything.

[ErikH]

What about your heater? Did it get stuck on? Todd suggested that may be the issue.

[rrasco]

I had some crazy winds last night as well. I was in the garage and went out to check out what sounded like someone banging on my garage door.

It's startling and kind of frightening that these systems are so fragile they can literally crash over night. Hope things pan out for you guys.

[ErikH]

If you need an extra set of hands, call me 210-872-4012

[Bill S]

If you need salt, we have plenty. Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier, I was in your neighborhood. Also have RO/DI I can make up for you.

Wish the Torpedo wasn't on the big tank and I had some bacteria, as it's been a huge help for crashing tanks in the past.

Don't trash your SPS yet. It's possible that they just expelled their zooxanthellae and are still alive.

We also have plenty of pumps, including 2 2600gph Seios that will keep the water oxygenated. Just sitting.
663.8O7nine

Edit: Also have the MAAST 29 gallon tank that we could bring by.

[BSJF]

I have some Prime which will detoxify ammonia/nitrite and about 30 gallons of RO and some salt if you need it. I didn't even see this post until now.

[kkiel02]

Kristy just saw this. Call me if you need any help. I'm on nights but have a lot of supplies if you need them. I don't have any Amquel though.

[Scutterborn]

How goes it? Any good news yet?

[BBQHILLBILLY]

1. cleaning lady with glass cleaner
2. electric surge
3. military radar glass zapper

probably electrical surge but nice cleaning lady was just there:innocent2:

[koa25]

Wasn't military glass zapper. I was in training today...

[Texreefer]

been at work all day and didn't see this till now.. sorry... if I can help let me know

[randomfish]

kristy i have a 100 gallon rubbermaid trough if you need it

[BBQHILLBILLY]

Actually I have had my skimmer pump intermittently produce current in the sw. Until I found the problem, it would take out my fish but not my coral.

I have also had a bad powerhead produce current and again affecting the fish not the coral.

[Kristy]

Situation: SAME. Only good news to report is that there is not any new bad news.

Mike and I both had to go to work for a few hours this afternoon. I just walked into the house and it reeks something awful! Like a bucket full of slimy mushrooms out of the water kind of smell all through the house. Some of the fish are out and swimming, some are still hiding, but no new losses apparent. Water is still pretty cloudy, but not worse than it was. Corals look terrible, except for the ones that seem completely unaffected.

We are skimming very, very wet and the skimmer is going nuts.
We are running a big media bag of carbon and another of some ammonia-removing rocks.
We dosed the tank with some Amquel-type product this morning and when I left around lunchtime the tests were reading:
ammonia - zero (previously 0.3)
nitrites 0.2ish (previously 0.3)
pH has been hovering around 7.9ish

I need to test again and will post those results later this evening. I have a bottle of Prime and some TLC. We have a ton of salt, always keep lots on hand just in case. Have another 40g ready for a 3rd water change this evening with the RO/DI cranking out another 40 in the background to use tomorrow. Depending on the test results, we will make a plan for what happens next. Trying to decide:
How often do I need to change out the carbon?
At what point would you pull out the bags of ammonia-removing crystals?
Do we need to start slowing down the water changes?
Is this the point where we need to be re-homing corals? What about fish?

Advice is appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Oh, and no Erik, the tank had no heater on it. I pulled it out a couple of weeks ago for the summer.

[Big_Pun]

I have a reactor and pump if you need it,and water. also have alot of the roxi carbon from BRS

[Scutterborn]

It looks like the params are coming back around. That's good. U should be able to leave the zeolite in the media bags for the next few days. They will leach after they've absorbed their share. Considering that there's roughly 64oz of zeolite, it'll last awhile. I think you can even recharge it. I saw that on the box I think. I've been going through your setup in my head all day and can only think that it's a 'cuke. Maybe I'm just nervous now that I've seen my first crash first hand and I've got a 'cuke in my tank. What exactly are you running in the two reactors again?

[Europhyllia]

maybe evacuate the dying corals so that they don't foul the water?

[BSJF]

Make sure you have good oxygenation for the fishies.
Prime will remove ammonia and nitrites, as well as provide a slime coat for them. It was my lifesaver with my baby fishies!
Remove dying corals (dip in iodine and put them in a QT if you think they might come back).
Get some sleep!

[Sherita]

I just got a chance to sit down, wow, what a disaster :(

First thing I would do is get any dead/dying corals out, dip and qt if you can, but get them out. And as far as water changes, when my 72g crashed a couple years back, I changed the entire water volume twice within 4 days. About half of my livestock survived. A lot is going to depend on your biofilter. If it's totally gone, you need to be moving fish and corals out of the tank because you are about to cycle like mad. I know your numbers look better, the question is........are they actually better because the tank is stabilizing, or is it just because of the water changes.

Were it me, I would set up a livestock tub, move all healthy fish and corals into it, move sick/dead/dying corals and fish into a separate tank, and get ready for a big cycle. The stench you described is not a good thing. It's likely your live rock is actually now not live, and if not completely gone, your biofilter is pretty well wrecked. When my 72g crashed, it never stank. That bad smell really worries me. It would help your tank if you can find someone who has a seasoned filter sponge in their tank or sump that you can get. That will at least seed the bacteria if yours is dead, and sure can't hurt if your biofilter has just taken a big hit.

I have two 110g tanks here that are just sitting, if you need them let me know. I sure wish I was closer, but if there is anything I can do, just let me know. Once you get sorted and back on track, I will sure be glad to give you some corals to get going again. Oh, your efflo is doing great here (just in case).

[CoryDude]

Kristy, you and I were just talking about this a month ago. Sorry the other shoe dropped. If you pull the sps and they still have a funky smell, I 'd keep 'em in the tank as Bill's right, they are probably still alive.

Please, please tell me the basket star is still around? Also, you're welcome to get the efflo back when your tank's ready. That's why we bank corals, right?

I'm willing to bet you won't find a the silver bullet on this crash. With so many things going on in our systems, sometimes there no rhyme or reason to a tank crash. Just keep changing your water and running carbon.

[Europhyllia]

If you need a mega dose of bacteria I can recommend Fritz BUT you would add that when you don't skim like mad (or else you'll just suck them right out before they can attach/settle/etc.)
https://www.fritzpet.com/turbo-start-900/

[Bill S]

I don't think you can overdo the water changes. 100% each day isn't too much. Get the salinity about right, and change it. Forget the temperature or anything else. Fish and corals will gladly give up nasty water for clean at any temperature/condition.

Be SURE and take a look around. Even something as simply/silly as a real penny can do this. So can a bad pump. Back when pennies were 100% copper, in the LFS this was ALWAYS a problem. Also be aware that most wiring is copper - it just doesn't take much to nuke a tank (it kills inverts).

[dsachs09]

Kristy, I have about 15-20 g of RO available and a new bucket of red sea pro salt. You know Diana and I are nearby if you need anything. Also a bag of carbon, 20g bucket and pumps. Never forget the help you gave me following my accident. Daron

[rrasco]

FWIW, one of these is on my soon-to-purchase list. It's something that all reefs should have to eliminate the stray voltage; just in case.

http://www.marinedepot.com/miscellaneous_titanium_grounding_probe-ap.html

[Mike]

We have one. We found both of our two missing cucumbers, both still alive and now moved to other tank. We did 40g more water changes last night and this morning, so up to 160g of water changes done. More snail and invert fatalities. We still do not know what the problem is. :(

[Scutterborn]

Any better news yet?

[rrasco]

I hate to point fingers, but if I was in your shoes, all signs point to cleaning lady IMO. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

[BSJF]

YOu might also get a polyfilter pad. It will remove toxins like copper and will turn color to let you know what it is removing. They are pricey, but worth it.

[Scutterborn]

The amout of foam that your skimmer was pulling is still puzzling to me. That's gotta somehow be tied in to the answer.

[rrasco]

The amout of foam that your skimmer was pulling is still puzzling to me. That's gotta somehow be tied in to the answer.

I didn't mention it in my last post, but I remember reading the skimmer was going crazy. That happens when you get stray chemicals in there, you know, like cleaning chemicals.

[Bill S]

I didn't mention it in my last post, but I remember reading the skimmer was going crazy. That happens when you get stray chemicals in there, you know, like cleaning chemicals.

But this also happens when you have a big die-off - which they had.

I'm still thinking copper. Copper wire would do this - if exposed to seawater. Snails and crabs can put up with a lot - heck they are tidepool critters. They also survive in the surf zone with all of that seafoam (seafoam is the same stuff as skimmer foam!). if they are dying, it's probably something chemical.

[Europhyllia]

I am scared to ask and you have bigger worries but:
Did charlotte and cc survive?:(

Sent from my LG-VM701 using Tapatalk 2

[rrasco]

But this also happens when you have a big die-off - which they had.

I'm still thinking copper. Copper wire would do this - if exposed to seawater. Snails and crabs can put up with a lot - heck they are tidepool critters. They also survive in the surf zone with all of that seafoam (seafoam is the same stuff as skimmer foam!). if they are dying, it's probably something chemical.

Good points, but what caused the die off?

[Scutterborn]

Bill is alluding to a bare copper wire somewhere. Would this reaction happen overnight? I thought that as the copper was broken down into the water it would've been a bit slower than this.

[Scutterborn]

Copper in its metallic form in your tank for a few hours is not going to cause copper poisoning. It needs to oxidize, to "solubilize", only then will it be in its toxic form. Also any heavy metals that have been in your tank that long should have been absorbed by your aragonite, a form of calcium carbonate (CACO3) that readily swaps out its calcium atoms in favor of heavy metals, locking them into a solid form.

A quote I read from a reefer on ARC.

[Scutterborn]

I'm not criticizing anyone. I'm genuinely looking for an education

[rrasco]

That makes sense, the quote you posted. I know people get weird stuff happening sometimes when they have copper plumbing or fittings supplying RO systems, or just in general. I really wouldn't expect it to be immediate, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

Anyone have a copper test kit?

[Kristy]

I am scared to ask and you have bigger worries but:
Did charlotte and cc survive?:(
2

Charlotte didn't make it. :*( The mandarin is looking great, active, behaving normally. Also, in answer to Cory's inquiry, we managed to pull the basket star out and moved her to our 20 hex tank along with the other inverts that were still alive (2 cucumbers and some snails).

I hesitate to report on who / what survived because I'm holding my breath and this isn't over yet...

Will update more later.

[Bill S]

Copper in its metallic form in your tank for a few hours is not going to cause copper poisoning. It needs to oxidize, to "solubilize", only then will it be in its toxic form. Also any heavy metals that have been in your tank that long should have been absorbed by your aragonite, a form of calcium carbonate (CACO3) that readily swaps out its calcium atoms in favor of heavy metals, locking them into a solid form.

A quote I read from a reefer on ARC.

I'm glad to read this - I always wondered why we didn't see more copper poisonings of tanks. However, I have heard of a few problems over the years with pennies. Of course, they would have to be "real" pennies (pre mid 80's).

[klwheat]

Not to be accusatory, but I'm curious as I follow this and try to continue to learn. Did you happen to ask the cleaning lady if she was "nice" and cleaned the glass for you? I've heard of similar issues with windex and such :(

[Europhyllia]

I would think it would have to be more than that.
Honestly at my place I am the cleaning lady and because the aquarium safe cleaner does such a poor job on glass I did use Windex on my tank and nothing ever happened.

[tebstan]

Not to be accusatory, but I'm curious as I follow this and try to continue to learn. Did you happen to ask the cleaning lady if she was "nice" and cleaned the glass for you? I've heard of similar issues with windex and such :(

Doesn't this tank have a canopy? If so, you'd have to be pretty careless or overzealous when cleaning the glass. I spray windex right at my glass all the time. I don't perfume the air around the tank with the stuff, but pointed point blank at the glass with a canopy shouldn't be a problem.

I found a roach in my sump recently. (:sick:) I got paranoid because even though I never use bug spray in the room with the tank, we spray everywhere else, and the critters travel for quite a distance before dying. Seen any dead critters around?

[rrasco]

Here's a tip, use vinegar and water to clean the glass. It works just as well as a commercial solution and won't hurt your tank. Heck, people dose vinegar.


Cleaning glass: Fill a new spray bottle with a solution of 50% water and 50% vinegar. Shake well. Spray mixture on window glass and clean with a dry cloth. The vinegar and water mixture cuts through the greasy, grimy film that accumulates on window glass. Once you've finished cleaning the window take a piece of newspaper, crumple it up and go over the window with it to remove any streaks.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2331023_clean-glass-vinegar.html

[Kristy]

Okay... last night the water was still pretty cloudy and the anemones started looking unhappy. I tested again and the levels were no bueno:
ammonia 0.2
pH 7.9
nitrite 0.8
nitrate 60

So we did our third 40g water change of the day and threw some Prime and TLC and microbacter7 in the clean water. As we were pulling the water out of the tank, the largest anemone started to release a milky liquid that was rather alarming! So we used the syphon hose to capture whatever it was spewing / spawning / nuking into the tank.

Then we set up a 20long temp tank for the angry / crashing LPS and bid the fish a good night, hoping beyond hope that the anemones weren't going to nuke the tank overnight (no way to remove all the anemones) and praying the fish would make it through the night. They did.

This morning the parameters were:
pH 7.9
ammonia 0.1
nitrites 0.3
nitrates 40
So we did a 4th quick 40g water change, adding Prime. And then we had to leave for work all day....

I came home to find fish out swimming and the water fairly clear. The anemones look much, MUCH better and there are only a couple of fish we aren't sure we have seen, but they may be hiding still and we still have some hope. A few of them look pretty rough though, and are showing the stress, so it breaks my heart to see.

Tonight's parameters:
pH 7.8
ammonia 0.1
nitrite 0.1 - (hallelujah)
nitrate 20ish
So we are doing our 5th 40g water change and throwing some Prime in there along with various means of good bacteria encouragement.

Continue to wish us luck, guys.... it's not over yet for sure. We are using water as fast as we make it, so we may be looking for some RO/DI in the next day or so in order to have some for top off or for other tanks, etc. The theories about what went wrong first (before the dominoes started falling) are interesting and when I have enough energy I will chime in on that too. Again, really appreciate everyone's support. There have been moments when the stress and weariness made it hard for the brain to think straight, so it has been helpful and reassuring to know when we are on the right track or to be reminded of what else we need to worry about next!

[tebstan]

Glad to hear things are looking up, thought about you a lot today!

[Europhyllia]

wow what a rough time. sorry you guys are still in the midst of it but it does sound like it's looking up :)

[Bill S]

Kristy, any chance one of your anemones spawned? That could sure start off a heck of a reaction.

[Europhyllia]

Kristy, any chance one of your anemones spawned? That could sure start off a heck of a reaction.
That was my thought as well after her last post. In fact googling it right now

[Scutterborn]

I'm glad to see those numbers falling!! I'm still pulling for ya! If you need anything, let me know

[Kristy]

Kristy, any chance one of your anemones spawned? That could sure start off a heck of a reaction.

Sure, there is a chance that is what kick started all of this and it's one of the theories I have been considering. But I don't see it as the most likely choice. I was interpreting it that the nitrites had gotten so high and then the anemones started to look awful and started to spawn or spew out whatever that was as a last ditch defense mechanism in response to the environmental stressors.

[allan]

Man, I've been following this... chewing my nails. Do you think it's in the rear mirror yet? Or still battling?

[Kristy]

No, the battle is just getting going. Not even close to the rear view mirror. I think it may be time for me to start borrowing some of the stuff that has been offered. Stand by for a PM or a text or a call or a smoke signal...

UPDATE:
Lost "Al," the yellow tang last night. Had him for over 5 years. Setting up a QT and pulling out our powder blue tang in the next hour or so because he looks pretty tore up. More QT to follow.

Parameters this morning:
pH 7.8
ammonia 1.2
nitrite 0.1
nitrate 20 - 40

Emergency 40g WC in progress.
Add more Prime to lock in ammonia before it turns to nitrites.
Set up QT for PBT.
Work on plan for rest of livestock.

[reefreak]

Kristy just let me know I have that tank if you need to borrow

[ErikH]

I too of course have a tub if you need.

[rrasco]

I have a 29 sitting in the garage if you need to borrow it as well. I'd personally opt for the 100g tub Erik has, but in case you want to keep an eye on the little guys a tank may work better. I have a couple powerheads I could do without for a little while too.

[LuckySingh]

I hve 75 gln tank as my emergency tank at work .. Lmk I can bring it with home when I leave ..

[Scutterborn]

I've got the 185 in the garage. I could have the dt filled and salted by tomorrow night! Also have a 75 empty in the garage. Lemme know

[Scutterborn]

And yes I can plump the chiller into it! No rock or sand but clean water!

[Troy Valentine]

Sorry to hear this... This really sucks:( It could happen to anyone of us at anytime.

When it comes time for you to restock, I've got a yellow tang I've had for over 2 years that is yours if you want him, and any starter frag you might want from my system.

[allan]

Yeah, I've been laboring to see if there was anything I can do to help. I can supply some starters as well.

[Europhyllia]

Well (insert lots of strong expletives here that would just get me hauled off to admin junkyard)!!!!

That totally sucks. I am so sorry. I can't even think of anything I can do to help! :( (but if you can think of something let me know)

[Kristy]

Speaking of water.... Looks like we are going to need some (100 - 150g) this evening. We just can't make it fast enough. If you have some RO/DI to spare, we sure could use it. If you happen to be free to deliver it, you will be offered your choice of frosty beverage and a commemorative chunk of rare snow white cap!

[Mr Cob]

You can borrow any of the equipment we have for sale...

a few items that may be of use:

36" T5 6 bulb light fixture (has new bulbs, no legs, was the one on Chris's old 70g DSA tank)
24" MH 250w 20k bulb with blue led moonlights, light fixture and ballast, includes legs
Small sump

I also have a Mag 18 pump I'm not using for another month or so, and I have 2 k3's that I'm going to pull off my system tonight.

[Mr Cob]

frag racks too

[Mr Cob]

oh, I also have a HOB skimmer that you could borrow if needed, I forget the brand but I'm not using it right now and I just keep it as a backup because it works too well to part with. I got it from Justin awhile back.


*PM me if I can help in any way. My old cell number is no more, I'm between accounts. Just ended my service with Sprint after 10 years. wow.

[350gt]

I have 5-10 gallons on hand..

Can probably have another 10 by this afternoon...


I can drop it off later if u like.

I haven't been keeping much on hand because of the heat in my garage..

[ErikH]

Speaking of skimmers, I have a EuroReef RS250 as well as an ASM G2. If you need those, just shoot me a text. I can drop them off, but don't want to see the disaster. It sucks to lose it all. I am so sorry for you guys.

[Big_Pun]

I just made about 40-50 gallons your welcome to it just give me a call and bring buckets.

[reefreak]

Kristy I know how you when this happend to me two months ago I also have a 35 gallon trashcan that you can borrow along with some powerheads you can borrow

[Zen Reef]

I have 40 gallons on hand..and a truck to haul it to you. Pm me your address

[Teeb]

I don't have an RO anymore, but I do have a one of the rubbermaids on wheels if you need it. I also have a TLF reactor and small pump if you want to try carbon.

[350gt]

didnt hear from you....

still have my offer open, making some more as I type..


LMK i will be up pretty late tonight, feel free to text 210-957-9960

[Gseclipse02]

Kristy just read this i still have my 180 running if u need it u can use it ....

[Pennies2Cents]

Wow Kristy. Just now saw this im speechless. Hope all gets better fast!

[Gseclipse02]

also i wouldnt worry to much about using rodi water .... at this point i would think tap would be a-ok

[klwheat]

I have 32gal Rodi ur welcome to have. I'd even deliver, but I've had a few frosty beverages already. Also, if needed I have a very under populated 252 gallon tank running that can host whatever temporarily.

[BSJF]

Hey Mike if you need help with anything tomorrow let us know, we could even bring food/drink. We ended up not having much of a CUC and what we did just went in the little biocube.

[Mike]

Thanks Lorraine... hoping we are on the upswing, fingers crossed (and very tired of doing water changes). Water test earlier at LFS and just now showing no ammonia, no to minimal nitrites and nitrates (assuming I am reading everything right.) PH was low earlier, but seemed to be better during tonight's test. Powder blue is in QT tank (not eating) and no sign of the coral beauty or one of the anthias. I can see the sand sifting star but cant tell if it is moving and it is in area I cannot reach (hoping it is still alive.) The basket star and 2 big cucumbers are in the 20g and can't stay there too long, not sure what to do about that. Almost none of the coral we pulled out and put in thier own QT made it and some of the corals that seemed okay previously have started to go (including Kristy's favorite- the efflo - has started to bleach.)

[z28pwr]

Kristy an Mike, I'm barely reading this. It seems like you guys have things under control but if you need any containers I have containers to hold over 300 gallons of water in all shapes and sizes and a 55 gallon drum with wheels, just let me know if you need any of them.

[BSJF]

Oh those numbers look good. Keep using the Prime, but you can probably cut back on water changes. Test first and only do them if levels increase.

[Texreefer]

NO,, not the efflo. I'm guessing the Bellus did not make it?/ thats a bummer

[Mike]

Bellus is still with us... waiting on tests now.

[CoryDude]

NO,, not the efflo. I'm guessing the Bellus did not make it?/ thats a bummer

The efflo lives on. Kristy banked a nice sized piece with me about a month ago to protect it for this very reason. Glad my two favorites, the bellus and the basket, star are still alive.

[Mike]

Don't jinx us. Tested and still showing ammonia... getting really tired of doing water changes. Sand sifting starfish is still alive. Doing another water change right now and then going to test again. Arg!

[kkiel02]

Mike if you need any help. Don't hesitate to ask. Y'all have always been there for me.

[Scutterborn]

How y'all doin over there? You manage to get any sleep yet? Looking for an update and see if ya need anything.

[Mike]

Thanks guys for all the support. Still showing ammonia, after days of doing 40-80g water changes a day. All SPS are gone along with most LPS. Appears zoas and palys are okay. Powder blue in QT, won't eat yet, but hopefully getting better. A couple of other fish are MIA, presumed dead ( including the hated flame tail blenny- small silver lining). Sucks

[ErikH]

see if ya need anything.

+1

[BSJF]

Sounds like you just need a beer to sit and watch the mess. I'm so sorry.

[Sherita]

The efflo lives on. Kristy banked a nice sized piece with me about a month ago to protect it for this very reason. Glad my two favorites, the bellus and the basket, star are still alive.

And here as well. A backup for your backup............just in case.

Which reminds me, I need to bank a few corals as well, ones that I cannot replace. Thanks for the memory jog.

[kkiel02]

I can also help you with housing fish if you need to. Just let me know.

[Scutterborn]

That's not what any of us wanted to hear... I'm so sorry. How are the big colony of frogspawn doing? Or are they gone as well?

[Mike]

Both the frogspawns are gone. Still showing ammonia last night. Did another 40g water change. Took the fuge offline, as possible concern about it being contaminated with rusting metal from a clamp. John suggested testing the salt, but having done 100s of gallons of water changes, don't see how that could be it. We even had a hole in our netting top, so part of the netting was hanging down into the water, do I trimmed it back until I can replace it.

In a hopefully bright spot, I think the powder blue in the qt tank looks a little better and I think he even ate a little last night. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the well wishes, cares, and concerns. Here's hoping tonight when I test after work there will be no ammonia.

[allan]

Mike,

When I tore down the 190 I noticed that all of my salt creep across my hose clamps was leaking rusting material into my sump. I don't think it was enough to do significant damage, and I've pretty much assumed that it did more than add to my cyano outbreak.

With your system being as large or larger than mine, I would think that you wouldn't have such a catastrophic response from just the hose clamp.

[Bill S]

Rusty hose clamps are the result of buying the wrong hose clamps. Do NOT buy them from HD, Lowes, Autozone, etc. They are the same price from a Marine Supply store, but the screws are stainless as well. They will NOT rust apart like the others.

[Mike]

Update- still have pretty high ammonia showing and can't figure out cause. Doing 40g a day water changes for week+. Using prime and other stuff, with no results. We did find the MIA- coral beauty dead and finally removed (only had it 5+ years. :(

On a more positive note, powder blue in QT seemed to eat a little more last night and looks a little better. The MIA Purple queen anthias swam out of a hiding hole to eat last night also. Yea!

We have taken the fuge off line, switched out all media in reactors, using chemi pure, using special filter pad to remove metals/toxins, using bacteria, and other products. Nothing seems to work. Very frustrating. Anyway the battle continues...

[Mr Cob]

sounds like you are in a cycle of cycling and the system might just need to be left alone for a couple of months to allow it to completely cycle...which would mean removing all the stuff that's alive.

*alive refering to the fish, coral and larger inverts

[Big_Pun]

do you think your sand bed may releasing stuff.... "old tank syndrome" that bites you can't get the tank to settle back in.

[BSJF]

Just keep adding Prime (morning and night) and your stuff should be fine since it will detoxify both the ammonia and nitrite. When my 125 crashed, I went through the same thing and even with daily large water changes, I had 30 days of mess because I was starting with a saturated bioload.

I personally wouldn't keep adding the bacteria stuff. That by itself could keep you seeing a peak in ammonia. (Just based on my personal experience, and others may disagree).

[Europhyllia]

I personally wouldn't keep adding the bacteria stuff. That by itself could keep you seeing a peak in ammonia. (Just based on my personal experience, and others may disagree).

I think it depends on what kind of bacteria product you are using - the 1-year shelflife BS or pure live bacteria. I totally would put it in some Fritz if it were me. Pouring in bottles of the other stuff -nah probably not.
And Prime is great. I always keep it on hand as well.

What can we do to help at this time?

[tiger_eyed1]

Remember that I have the 75 running and it is pretty much empty. I can house whatever till the big tank is ready again.

Someone may have alread said this, but what is the public view on using used saltwater to buffer a crashing tank? It is already full of bacteria and balanced. Would adding all the new water to a already shocked tank be adding to the stress? I would do 90% water changes with aged Natural Salt Water when I was in SFL. Never had a issue.
I think I’m changing 75g this weekend. It is just a thought.

Marcus

[Mike]

So do you think I stop doing daily 40g water changes and just add prime a couple of times a day? The remaining fish seem to be okay currently.

[BBQHILLBILLY]

really weird.

You probably need to setup some temp tanks and clean your big tank.

Than redo the landscaping and have fun. Look at it as an opportunity. It is what it is. your spinning the wheels and nothings happening.

[tiger_eyed1]

As Mr Cob said, the tank has to mature and cycle after the crash, no question on that. It’s the point that you still have livestock that you can't let it have a hard cycle. It is the lack of the good bacteria that you are missing. Text me in the morning, I'll bring you a gallon of my sand bed. That'll help the restart as well. I use to go to LFS and buy the grunge at the bottom of their Live Rock tanks for bacteria diversity.

[BSJF]

So do you think I stop doing daily 40g water changes and just add prime a couple of times a day? The remaining fish seem to be okay currently.

Yes. In the end it will make the cycle shorter. Every time you do a WC you are also removing bacteria so the new 40g has to start from scratch.
Just don't miss a dose! And watch the fishies behavior.
Once you have a good amount of nitrates, then you will need to up the water changes again to deal with those.

[reefreak]

kristy and mike how is the recovery process coming along?

[Mike]

Slow. Keep pulling ammonia, now in all three ranks. Have tested everything under the sun and cannot find a source. Multiple test kits pull same. Sometimes 0 and other times .1 - .3. Sucks. Still trying to add prime & knock on wood, not really lost anything else. Snail that remain are breeding. Saddest thing is we lost the basket star. Sucks with a capital S.

Jason at AD said my ph, which has been low might be contributing (keeping bacteria from multiplying and converting the ammonia) so I have been working on that.

Getting tired of it and Kristy and I have had a couple discussions about maybe downsizing/ simplifying by getting rid of 1-2 tanks. No decisions made, just upsetting having things crash and die and all the work it has been taking.

[allan]

Maybe your cat is taking a leak into the tank? I've had one take one on a pillow... that my head was resting on. Brave little things, they are.

I had thought that your tank was already recovered.

[koa25]

Margo trained most of her cats to use a toliet (yes like Mr. Jinx) and one decided my 10 gallon look like a good toliet and let loose. Luckily it is my qt and only had sand rock and a cuc with macro. little ****s. I bought a airsoft gun. Didn't have anymore issues with that.

[cowboy572]

just upsetting having things crash and die and all the work it has been taking.

Mike and Kristy, Sheila and I know how ya'll feel. It's been a rough one the last couple of months for us as well. First it was our tank crash due to our a/c going out and then a few weeks later finding out the one of the seams is leaking. I just gets old....

It's hard to enjoy a tank when the creatures you enjoyed are no longer with you and you have bar clamps to hold one side to keep it from leaking.

[Zack]

I'm going on vacation the 4th to 8th, but when I get back I'm pretty much free minus the weekends till the 14th. If you guys need any help lifting buckets or doing anything I'm right down the road and would love to help.

[Mike]

Thanks Zack, really appreciate the offer.

[Zack]

No problem man, you guys were there when my tank was going down hill, so if you need it, I'd love to help.

[CoryDude]

Mike, your welcome to use my torpedo if needed. Just need some starter bacteria.

[Bill S]

Mike, what kit are you using for ammonia? Some DO have small false positives. At this point, you really shouldn't have any ammonia. I'd take a sample and have it tested with several different kits. APIs are known for false positives, for example.

[Sherita]

Did a little research. According to Seachem, the use of Prime or Amquel WILL cause false positives on ammonia tests.

Mike, if I remember right, you are still adding Prime. If you are, there's your answer to the low level positive.

[LuckySingh]

Just a thought mike since u have tried quite different things at this point I would do a water change maybe twice a week from somebody else's tank to boost up the bacterias population....I just drained 50gln out of my tank today.... If someone is doing a water change u can trying borrow some for few weeks and see if that works... And save some salt bill also.. Just my opinion

[Mike]

Thanks guys... hoping for the best.

[Pennies2Cents]

Sheila and I know how ya'll feel. It's been a rough one the last couple of months for us as well. First it was our tank crash due to our a/c going out and then a few weeks later finding out the one of the seams is leaking. I just gets old....

It's hard to enjoy a tank when the creatures you enjoyed are no longer with you and you have bar clamps to hold one side to keep it from leaking.

Jarrod, Mike & Kristy, Its alot to go through.. :( We know.. remember the 240 lost its center brace then started to bow outward and was very stressful. Then selling everything we had, just to buy a new tank and start over with lil bitty frags.. :( Heres wishing both your tanks a speedy recovery and excellent health in the future..

Also had I know you would be needing "bacteria" we just did a 30 gal water change on our 240 we would of called ya.. Maybe next time.

[ErikH]

Very sucky. Everytime I read this thread it's like someone is yanking my heart out and showing it too me while it's still beating. Best of luck on the recovery, and I too will help with whatever you two need.

[Kristy]

Thanks everyone for all the offers and support. The good news is that we got another zero reading on ammonia testing Sunday. Seems very likely that the continued use of Prime was giving us false positives for ammonia in the 0.1 - 0.3 range, like Sherita was saying. Bill, we have had the water tested by several different tests and different testers for comparison over the last couple months.

Signs of health: snails spawning on the glass and pink skunks spawning too. Maybe we are bouncing back...... (fingers crossed).

[RayAllen]

Sounds good Kristy and Mike. On your way back to a healthy system. Ive always thought your tank was one of the best, Id hate to see it dismembered.

[reefreak]

kristy have you found out what caused it?

[Kristy]

kristy have you found out what caused it?

Well not with absolute certainty. I *think* a major drop in pH triggered the SPS to start crashing and then there was a LONG and inevitable chain reaction. But really, we just can't know 100%. And what set off the pH, that's another question. All we really have are some theories. Most of our time and energy was devoted to fixing and stabilizing and keeping things alive as much as possible. :(

[Sherita]

I would say if you have active spawning going on, then the tank is just fine. Creatures won't normally procreate if their environment is bad. Looks like ya'll are back in business :)

[mkengr45]

Sucks when this stuff happens. I got back from a cruise this saturday to find some of my favorite corals were just bare skeletons. One of my BRS 1.1ml dosers had broken and alkalinity was at 5.6......I was so ****ed. Lost 2 pieces that I had gotten from Cherry Corals that I had never seen before and have never seen since....they are history now. My dosers put out 45ml of two-part alk and Ca throughout the day, plus my ATO is kalkwasser. My tank seems to have a pretty heavy consumption rate, so one doser going bad over 12 days was enough to cause problems......but nothing like having a total crash.

[jrnannery]

Mike and Kristy, if you can stomach it, please give us a list of losses. I know everyone here will donate replacements if they have it. My stuff is surely available to you, although it's all pretty much amateurish variety stuff. Please post. I hate seeing people feel defeated.

[Kristy]

Hey that's really nice of you. That list will HURT to write, but I will probably do it.... maybe over a pitcher of margaritas for consolation. I was thinking about starting a WTB thread for some of the corals I'm looking for when I am ready to get serious about what I'm looking for. Gimme a couple weeks.

[CoryDude]

I saw this tank today in person, and I'm happy to report that it is making a nice comeback. The landscape looks a little different, but it has recovered nicely. Maybe we can talk mike and Kristy into starting a new thread to document this tank?

[Troy Valentine]

Thats great news! I've been wondering about their system, I was just too afraid to ask publicly.