Zoa in Trouble

[grendel88]

Ok so one of my Zoas closed of for the night about a week ago. It has not opened since. One of the tiny little heads near the bottom is open, it seems but the rest are closed and I am beginning to think it is near the end. Is there anything I can do to try and revive it, or wake it up?

[350gt]

anything picking at them?

[FireWater]

Lot's of things can cause them to close up. I have had colonies stay closed for a week and then open up the next day like nothing happened. I would start worrying when they are melting away.

Short list to check:

Too much flow and/or light
Something picking at them - either fish or critter
Water parameters are not to it's liking
Bacterial or fungus infection - you can use Furan2 and/or peroxide as a dip. Look it up on the web for instructions
There is also a list of zoa/paly eating things like nudis and spiders that could be the cause, but you will generally see damage prior to closing up

I am sure I forgot something.

[Sherita]

The first thing I would do is dip them, either peroxide or CoralRX. Most of the time when mine get angry that resolves the issue. Pay close attention to anything that comes off of them, use a magnifying glass as needed.

Have you moved them recently by any chance? Added any new livestock? What are your water params? Also, what kind of filtration?

There are a lot of things that can make zoos mad, but unless they are actually melting you can most likely turn it around pretty easy. They are generally tough little boogers (unless you paid a lot of money for them, then they will croak for any reason at all).

Feel free to PM me if ya want.

[grendel88]

My Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are all at zero, pH = 8.0 and temp is 77. I put a few new frags in there along with a starry blenny, but this was after the zoa closed up.

[Sherita]

Do you have emerald crabs? Mine got banished for picking at my zoos and palys.

I would dip them if it was me. CoralRX, Lugols or a diluted peroxide dip (I use a 50% tank water/50% hydrogen peroxide solution). Watch closely for anything that comes off of them. Sometimes amphipods will irritate them.

Where are they located in your tank, and how much light are they getting?

[grendel88]

I had emerald crabs but removed them for picking at a frogspawn. These guys are located about mid height in a 75 gallon tank. I am running a Current power compact (4 bulbs: 2 actinic and 2 flourescent). I dipped them in peroxide, but I used a higher concentration :-(. I had to leave for work, so I will check on them in a few hours.

[Mr Cob]

how old are your lights?

[rrasco]

Freaking emeralds...I just added two new ones and saw one picking at my Duncans yesterday! I almost smashed him for it.

[grendel88]

I just replaced 3 of the four bulbs (I was told the fourth was semi new) about 2 months ago. I have 3 other zoas in the tank that are doing great.

[Mr Cob]

zoas and palys are crazy....sometimes there's just no explanation. I have lost entire colonies, one polyp, two polyp when everything else was fine... Sometimes they just take a turn for the worst.

Some love dirty water, others hate it and most don't care but no two are the same...even colonies of the same type but different lineage are proven to act differently in the same conditions.

Dey isa cwrazy!

[grendel88]

Well they seemed to be doing great for the first month or two. Within that time they were growing like crazy as I had 4 or 5 new heads. One day they just never woke up when the lights went on. I am thinking maybe something picked on them while the lights were off. Maybe a disgruntled hermit? I have some larger ones that I have been considering taking out of the tank.

[Sherita]

Bigger hermits can cause untold grief.

One thing you might try, see if someone can take them into their tank for a while. Sometimes a change of scenery just brings them right around. You might put them all the way down on your sandbed to encourage them to "reach for the light", and put them in more, or less flow than they are now.

Bottom line, Rob is right. The things are nuts. I can grow every kind of zoa I have tried, except Armor Of God. Dead, every time, no matter what. There IS a direct correlation to cost, the more expensive they are, the harder they are to keep :)

Oh, I wouldn't worry about the strong peroxide dip. I have dipped in full strength before, they get mad, but they get over it. Besides, if it's dying, what are you going to do......kill it? You have to try something, and it's better than sitting and watching while they fade away.

[Sherita]

What is your alkalinity, calcium and mag levels? Did I miss those somewhere? Zoas can react negatively to problems with any of those parms. Mine turn into shriveled boogers if I let my alk get too low.

Do you dose daily, or depend on frequent water changes for ca and mag? What do you do for alk?

[Sherita]

Freaking emeralds...I just added two new ones and saw one picking at my Duncans yesterday! I almost smashed him for it.

Makes one want to take after them with a fork, doesn't it? :at_wits_end:

The only crabs allowed in my system are strawberry crabs and porcelain crabs. They bother nothing, and are cute as can be! My CUC consists of snails, snails, snails, and did I mention...........snails.

Sorry for the hijack, we now return to our regularly scheduled thread.

[Regric25]

I had a small colony of zoas close up for 2 weeks. They did not open at all. All I did is make sure nothing is irritating them and kept them dusted off with a turkey baster. They even started to "shed skin". I though for sure they were done for but I rode it out because they were not melting away. All of a sudden they opened up one day. They looked like crap but after a while they were good as new. The only thing I can attribute to them closing is I did a rather large water change and added chemi pure to reduce nitrates and phos. I think the rapid water quality change made them mad.

[grendel88]

I have not tested for Alk since I have had the tank running (I'm a newb) and dont test for calcium or magnesium. I use the Kent all in one supplement once a week, which I have read is a little irresponsible not knwing where the other levels are, but I am not doing a lot of heavy lifting, critter wise. In my tank I have 3 zoas, 2 frogspawn, a Duncan, a candy cane some feather dusters and fish. I started to see some of the foreskins (lol, couldnt think of a better term) of the zoas turn white when I dunked him, but I need to wait and see if there are any changes when I get home. What should alkalinity be for a mixed reef tank?

[Sherita]

ROFL, the word you are looking for is "skirts". The white reaction is normal in my experience, so is bubbling. You do need to test for alk, ca and mg using the appropriate tests. Even softies need correct parms in order to thrive, and you have three lps and they depend on the correct levels for growth and health. Most folks dose daily for ca and alk, and weekly for mg (or more often as needed). Depending on how frequently you change water, you may not need to dose for ca or mg at all, but it is essential that you know what those levels are :)

Correct alk for a mixed reef is going to be somewhere between7 and 12, from what I have seen most folks are in the 9ish range. There is a relationship between ph, ca, mg and alk that is somewhat in depth, but it is essential that these levels be within acceptable parameters. When dosing, keep an eye on your pH levels so they don't creep up on you. It's a balancing act to get it all right, but once you are "dialed in" it's really pretty easy. The all in one additives sound great, but I have heard of more problems than benefits with them. It's much better to dose for each individual thing, because you can adjust your amounts according to what your testing shows. Most folks dose with a two part solution for ca/alk and a separate solution for mg. When you get it right, your ph will most likely be right where it needs to be as well. If you have any troubles with this, we are all here to help you get it sorted. And as I said earlier, feel free to pm. Most all of us are always glad to help out a new reefer, some of this stuff can get a bit overwhelming.

I'm betting that when you test for mg/ca/alk/ph you will find the cause of your zoa problem :)

[grendel88]

Ok so I tested alkalinity (12) and calcium (460 - 480). pH is at 7.8 and I couldn't find a way to test for magnesium, though the supplement I use has strontium and molybdenum in it.

[Sherita]

Your alk is high, ca is a bit high but in acceptable range, and depending on the time of day that you tested pH could be off a bit (it's normally lowest first thing in the morning before the lights come on). Mg requires it's own test, and the kits can be hard to find (I had to order my test kit online). Your mg should roughly be three times your Ca, and your Ca should be in the 420-ish range.

I am willing to bet that the high alk is the cause for your zoa issues. If you are now using two part, stop dosing for alk and test daily until you get it back down in the 9-9.5 range, it should come down on its' own if you don't dose it. With a two part system, you can customize to get everything where it needs to be. With an all in one dose system, you have no way to adjust for your high alk. While the strontium and moly might or might not be an issue, I am a firm believer in not putting anything in my tank that I cannot test for. Maybe someone else who doses them will speak up and help you there.

[grendel88]

What do you mean by two part? Are you saying I should just avoid supplementing until it comes down?

[Sherita]

Two part dosing systems have separate solutions for Ca and Alk. You can adjust the amount you use to alter your levels. One popular two part dosing system is Bi-Ionic.

Thats what I mean by adjusting your dosing levels. Your Ca levels are slightly elevated, but not enough to get worried about, your Alk levels are high. If you are still using the all in one, I would either cut your amount in half, or not dose for a few days until your alk levels come down. You will need to test daily while doing this. Unfortunately, since you can't dose separately for Ca and alk with the system you are using, you run the risk of your Ca getting too low. The best recommendation I can give you is get away from the all in one and go to a two part system, get a mg test and find out what your levels are there, and use Kent Tech-M if needed to raise your Mg levels.

[grendel88]

Ok, thanks. Ill see if I can salvage my poor guy