Another plumbing question - durso standpipe

[Mike]

Hey guys... by now I am sure everyone knows our old 75g leaked and is being replaced with a 140g. The issue is doing the plumbing and setting up the new tank. We have a few questions and are seeking guidance.

1- We are going to attempt to use the closed loop on the new tank for circulation. We have two used external pumps that I think are both functional (assuming, but no water testing done yet to make sure no leaks). If both work and don't leak, which brand is better and which should/would meet our needs better?

Panworld Magnet Pump

Nominal output- 70 watts
Voltage 100-110v
STF. Point - 2.7m-30L/Min / 2.9m-30L/Min
Speed - 2700/ 3100 rpm
Power Consumption - 110/150W

or

Iwaki Walchem

Max Capacity 13.7 g/m (which should be 822 g/h)
Head - 8.2 ft
Voltage - 115
Amps - .45


2- Is hard plumbing better than using spa flex? Why would we want to use all hard plumbing? Is a combination hard and spa flex tubing fine? Is it best to use the purple primer and glue on the PVC joints or just snug them? If I glue everything, it does not come apart, is that a good thing or bad thing? Do I use it on where the spa flex and pvc join? If the two pvc pieces screw together do I need the glue? Any reason not to use the plumbers teflon tape on the threads? Why and where do I use the cut off valves?

3- Anything else we need to know? or any other suggestions since we are still in the planning stages?

Thanks- Mike and Kristy

[jroescher]

Unions and Ball Valves are your friends. I have unions under my tank at the bulkheads, and clear tubing after that for everything in the sump.

[justahobby]

No to gluing threaded fitting. What's threaded?

Are you talking about using spa tubing for the return? Go with the hard tubing. Glue for things under pressure, like the return. I know everyone seems glue for drains, but I honestly don't see the reason/need for it....... I suppose erring on the side of caution.

Ball valve at the input and output of the pump in case you have to remove it, and also at the bulkhead drains to stop flow before the water level drops. Add one anywhere you think you might want to stop or slow flow. Like a seperste drain into the fuge...

Sorry, no idea on the pumps. I didn't see a gph for the second pump. I would put the smaller on the return so your fuge and skimmer have more contact time.

[Sherita]

I'm a big fan of spaflex myself. I use it for my returns, it cuts down on vibration noise, and sometimes that little bit of flex is just what you need to get where you are going. Put ball valves on anything you might need to throttle back or shut off..............both sides of the pump, on your drains if you have more than one (so you can balance what goes where). Unions are great, put them on either side of your pump, makes it easy to take it out. Just be sure your unions are between the pump and the ball valves, that way you can make sure no water escapes while you are working. I have unions on my twin drain lines just below tank level, makes it easy to get the in-sump plumbing out if I need to work on it. I tend to stick unions on anything that I might want to take apart later.

There is nothing wrong with hard plumbing everything in, I have done that before too. Some of my tanks are "hybrid" using both spaflex and sch40 pvc at the same time. It all really depends on your application, how comfortable you are working with either product, and what you are looking for as an end result.

Use primer and glue on anything that is under pressure, or might be under pressure at any time in the future. Yes, you use both on the spaflex. I glue everything on both returns and drains, I don't like surprises, and I don't like leaks. Unglued joints can vibrate or work loose over time and start leaking (just because a drain line isn't supposed to be under any pressure does not mean that a rogue turbo snail won't stop it up and possibly cause a leak). Do not glue threaded fittings, and yes, use teflon tape. Don't use pipe dope, it could possibly leach into the water.

I can't offer an opinion on pumps, since I'm not familiar with either one. But IMHO Justin is right, use the lower flow for your return, to prolong fuge/skimmer time.

[Gseclipse02]

use threading pipes were ever you can so when you need to do some work you can re-use the piping ... esp on the bulk head side..... ball valves on the pump and unions on them also remember ur suppose to lube ur pump i think once a year or something like that ... use primer and glue when doing the pvc


i would also more than likely use the iwaki if it was the correct GPH that ur looking for ... lot of people like how "smooth" they run

[Mike]

Thanks everyone for responding. Hoping other people chime in on the pump issue. Our plan put ball valves on the two drain lines, but not on the return side. Also none planned for the closed loop, which I can see needs to be added also. How do I lube the pumps, whichever I use? What do I lube with? Thanks again everyone- Mike

[Gseclipse02]

i think its like that 3in 1 oil .... ill take a pic of it when i get to work so u can see what we use .... its on the bottom side of the pump for the most part

[Europhyllia]

I would go with the Panworld. But I also have a Sicce 5.0 on my 60 gallon seahorse tank. Stuff is always slower than it says and if you have multiple outlets to create all of your flow from your return pump then it will be lots of little trickles IMO. (my Sicce is adjustable so I did turn it down a tad and am not running it on full 5.0.)

I bought spaflex and ended up hating it so the reef tank was hybdrid for awhile and now is mostly back to hard plumbing. With the seahorse tank I'm back to hard plumbing and no spaflex.
I don't know if you can get it locally but I love the Gorilla PVC glue more than the primer/cement combo.

[Bill S]

Mike, either of the pumps should be fine. They both flow about the same.

[Kristy]

Gotta love MAAST for all the support and advice! You guys are awesome!

We have been sketching out the plan for the plumbing for several days now and fine-tuning / improving it as we go, so this input from you guys will undoubtedly save us from a few mistakes when we start putting it together in the near future. We have only made two trips to Home Depot so far, so obviously we are not ready yet because everyone knows one of these projects takes at least three trips to the HD (and we've discovered a couple more things we need, so that third trip is guaranteed!)

JT, I keep quoting you to Mike, how you said that most people mess up by over-tightening the pieces that screw together (also known as "threaded" for Justin's question). If you get a chance, will you say that again in this thread, because he doesn't seem to be remembering it... :)

If anyone wants to look at the plumbing plans and give your input in exchange for beer and eternal gratitude, give us a shout. We will probably try plumbing it over the weekend.

[Bill S]

As Kristy notes, this is ALL low pressure water movement. This isn't what goes on inside your walls. Hand tighten only, ESPECIALLY bulkheads. Then test for leaks. If you get some, GENTLY tighten with a wrench until it stops. I remember that Richard recommended the yellow teflon tape to me years ago - used for gas fittings - and I really like it for tank plumbing. It's thicker.

[Kristy]

Another question....

Would a Mag 18 return pump be an appropriate choice for 2 1-inch drains?

[Sherita]

Kristy I think it might be a bit much. I have a mag 7 with two 3/4" drains, and it's all they can can handle.

[BSJF]

Mag pumps are notorious for leaking. I liked my Iwaki because it was quiet, but there are several different types and I don't know anything about the one you listed.

[profntbtr]

iwaki walchem is the same as iwaki, only manufactured stateside. i personally would go with the iwaki, as i have had issues with the panworld pumps, be it catching fire or priming difficulty. i had an iwaki walchem pump that would routinely run dry for weeks at a time, and show no ill effect. as soon as water was added, it would run like nothing was ever wrong. Never any issues with priming, never any issues with noise, just ran like a champ.

[Kristy]

Hmm, sounds like the Mag might not work out anyhow, but we were trying to use the Mag 18 for the return (in-sump) and one of the two external pumps mentioned above for the closed loop so the potential for the Mag leaking are less worrisome. Guess we'll have to play around with the multitude of other pumps Mike has collected or else go shopping for just the right new one!

[Bill S]

Kristy,

The mag 18 is probably too much for 1" drains - especially as they "age".

[justahobby]

Why only 2 drains? Saving two for the closed loop?

[Mike]

Would a mag 12 be better?

[Mike]

1 on each side is for the drains and the other 1 on each side is for the returns. The closed loop holes are totally separate.

[Gseclipse02]

JT, I keep quoting you to Mike, how you said that most people mess up by over-tightening the pieces that screw together (also known as "threaded" for Justin's question). If you get a chance, will you say that again in this thread, because he doesn't seem to be remembering it... :)
d.

this [post ?

most drips i see from people installing bulk heads is over tightening them, not lining them up correctly or where the gasket is theres a piece of sand or something there

[rockmp]

Mike,

Take a look at this thread. http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?56908-75-gallon-build/page3&highlight=build

This is a great way to get flow out of your closed loop (if you go that route). Have you considered an Oceans Motion for your CL?

[Texreefer]

I'm a HUGE fan of the Pan Worlds! lots of good advice here.

[ErikH]

Where's Alton on this? He's the pump/electricity master. :: WAVES HANDS :: ALTONNNNNNNNNNNNNN HELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?! :)

[justahobby]

You've got two on the sides for closed loop and then two in each overflow right?

[Kristy]

The holes are: a 3/4" inch hole and a 1" hole in each corner overflow (holes cut into the bottom glass) which we have interpreted to be the 1" drain lines and the 3/4" return lines.

Then the right side glass has a 1" hole and the left side has two 1" holes, which we have interpreted to be one drain to the closed loop and a return from the closed loop on each side. I wish that I was one of those computer guys who could whip up a quick illustration in that sketch program so we could show you the whole elaborate plan but I definitely am not.

[justahobby]

Ohhhhh, I wasn't thinking about the return lines. Are y'all planning to do anything to the back eg paint black, a Karin's shadow box? Maybe a cool rock wall like John's?

[Kristy]

Okay, making some progress now, almost done with the plumbing...but new question. This one is about durso standpipes, which we are doing for the first time.

Our side overflows have the holes for the drains in the bottom glass. We are hard plumbing some (1" PVC) durso standpipes in there. Is it important for the little cap piece on the top of the straight vertical pipe to fit snugly? We can use the same fence post looking cap that everyone else uses, and it just perches on top but doesn't make a nice tight seal. Or we can use a plug piece at the top that fits snugly.

[FireWater]

The ones I used for mine fit on, but are easily removable. I do not think they have to be snug Kristy.

[ritmar]

Here is the plumbing complete.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee164/ritmar/ritmars%20270%20Gallon%20Reef%20Build/P1000552.jpg

[CoryDude]

That looks great, but I see a small mistake. Isn't the plumbing supposed to go on the backside and the clear side go on the front? How are you going to see the fish with the tank situated that way?

[Kristy]

Geez ritmar, I am SO glad we don't have that many closed loop returns to plumb. This one is challenging enough!

Surely anyone who knows the two of us won't scan through this thread, see that photo and think we did that! Far too professional looking and clean... Ritmar, it's too bad you're in Colorado or we'd be calling you for a plumbing consult!!

[ritmar]

That is the back. It is a inwall.

http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showthread.php?8919-Ritmars-270g-build

[CoryDude]

Dry humor, keyboards, and the internet do not mix well.

[Gseclipse02]

Here is the plumbing complete.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee164/ritmar/ritmars 270 Gallon Reef Build/P1000552.jpg



not hating to much but that looks like ten to many possible leaks

[ritmar]

I have 13 holes in this tank. This is the third large tank that I have done.

[randomfish]

ritmar is the master no leaks anywhere

[ritmar]

Thanks Tom

[Kristy]

Okay, making some progress now, almost done with the plumbing...but new question. This one is about durso standpipes, which we are doing for the first time.

Our side overflows have the holes for the drains in the bottom glass. We are hard plumbing some (1" PVC) durso standpipes in there. Is it important for the little cap piece on the top of the straight vertical pipe to fit snugly? We can use the same fence post looking cap that everyone else uses, and it just perches on top but doesn't make a nice tight seal. Or we can use a plug piece at the top that fits snugly.

Let's see if I can steer this thread back on track! Thank you John for your comments about your durso standpipe. Anybody else have experience with these and have ideas about if the looseness is fine?

[ritmar]

http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showthread.php?4068-Ritmar-s-180

Post #40

You will need a vent hole in the cap to keep them from being loud.
loose cap will be ok.


Sorry Kristy for getting off track.

[FireWater]

http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showthread.php?4068-Ritmar-s-180

Post #40

You will need a vent hole in the cap to keep them from being loud.
loose cap will be ok.


Sorry Kristy for getting off track.

I am sure she does not mind much. Question got answered.

Complicated, but well thought out plumbing by the way Ritmar.

[ritmar]

Thanks