Metal Halides and T5s r fadding technology...??

[LuckySingh]

with all these different led fixtures been coming up these day with low wattage use and highest par in compare ....will MH and t5s will loose their charm soon....does really they do what they claim...i mean can they really grow corals..is it a better investment....what r ur all thoughts on this....????

Mods i was wondering if we can open a poll on this

[justahobby]

You can set up your on poll at the beginning of the thread (if you scroll down). You might still be able to be hitting edit and then edit again should take you to the first thread options

[LuckySingh]

You can set up your on poll at the beginning of the thread (if you scroll down). You might still be able to be hitting edit and then edit again should take you to the first thread options
got it bro thanks

[Bill S]

Fadding or fading? Fadding would mean they have come into popularity...:bigsmile:

I still haven't seen anything that would make me buy into the LED technology. We have replaced nearly all of our lighting on our boat with LED. Makes sense there - it's all 12v anyway. When I see a RC Tank of the Month packed with SPS using LEDs, THEN I'll buy into it.

[alton]

Answer they still sell pc's, dont they

[justahobby]

Answer they still sell pc's, dont they

Very true. LED's will be old technology before halides and t5's ever fade out. Each light fills a certain void where another can't.

[Europhyllia]

T5 and halide will still be the cheaper options for a really long time! Cheaper means its accessible to a much wider base of customers.

[Europhyllia]

When I see a RC Tank of the Month packed with SPS using LEDs, THEN I'll buy into it.

Here you go :) October 2010
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/68-tank-of-the-month

And of course I know you still won't buy into it because he started the tank with MH/T5 and switched to LEDs halfway through but I mean LEDs haven't been available that long and SPS tanks that make TOTM usually are on TOTM because they have big *** corals in it -not little fragsies -meaning the tank may have been up for some time. LEDs have only really become something the average hobbyist buys in the last couple of years it seems.

Anyway you don't have to buy into it at all though. You got Discus! ;)

[ShAgMaN]

T5 and halide will still be the cheaper options for a really long time! Cheaper means its accessible to a much wider base of customers.

I don't think so. Even TV's are going LED and are becoming affordable. It's so much more economical in the long run...and you can already buy some pretty strong lights for a decent price. I would be surprised it LED's are more expensive than t5's and Mh's in a few years. At the very least; everyone will get the value - kinda like how PC's are basically obsolete. Biggest difference to me is energy consumption and heat output - in which Mh's soak up the electrons and dish out the radiation, and T5's still run too warm. I'm going back to LED's ASAP.

[Europhyllia]

You don't have to convince me about total value. I run 100% LED on everything.
But for the average person starting out the whole thing is pretty dang expensive. So not everybody can afford top of the line when they are already shelling out money for tank, stand, equipment, etc. Most people don't even stick with the hobby for longer than a year or two so for those in and out guys the amortization of cost won't even take affect.

And I totally agree on heat but just think of all these whacky people that still stick any gorgeous fixture into some ugly canopy - probably even impeding the heatsinks on LEDs! ;)

[ShAgMaN]

Answer they still sell pc's, dont they

I've seen a couple dusty boxes in some LFS.

[CoryDude]

LED's will never be a cheaper option. The led manufacturers only get one chance at your money and that's at the point of sale. After that it's going to be at least another 5-10 years before you need another set. Their products are just too darn good.

T-5's and mh need bulbs replaced each year, ballast go out, and capacitors go bad. That's why they'll always be cheaper than led's.

But its not just price. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's something about a full spectrum halide bulb that I prefer over leds. Maybe I'll use some led strips for supplemental lighting, but a hot, energy consuming halide bulb will always be my main source of light over a coral tank.

[350gt]

If I would of known what I know now, I would have bought a complete led setup for my tank instead of my current lighting.... Not many complaints from my t5/hid setup but I like everything about leds and would have dished out a little more for them........ If I keep my tank another year, I will eventually do a complete swap....

And I do believe LEDs will become cheaper as more companies start producing LED units. They are going to have to compete with each other, which will be a good thing for us.

[Europhyllia]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's something about a full spectrum halide bulb that I prefer over leds.

I said it before and I'll say it again, you haven't seen a full spectrum LED set up. You are basing your visual perception of LEDs on set ups that were stocked only with cool white and blues... ;)

Most off-the shelf units still come that way for now but depending on customer demand that could easily change. And DIY/custom set ups are already utilizing different spectrum whites which make a HUGE difference.

[LuckySingh]

leds will never be cheap i agree with with that....every year they come with different fixture and the price never goes down ...what i think the point that we r discussing is with the todays technology we hve so many option ..one is the led fixture which is expensive to setup initially and is as gud a any MH or T5s in terms of par and in growth of coral with literally no maintenance for several years and other is old school MH which is easily affordable initially over leds but not only require maintenance but also is a big cause of heat and water evaporation....

[Europhyllia]

I think you are spot on Lucky :)

[Troy Valentine]

The only thing I do like about the LED fixtures is the ease of ownership. Buy it and forget it, just play with the intensity or spectrum. Like everyone has already stated, there is know need to replace bulbs annually. But remember that MH technology, as well as the reflector designs are also improving as well. Now a 175 halide can put out the same par as some 400 watt lights. And with the improvement of digital/electronic ballasts they can now be operated at even lower wattage than the ballast suggests. For instance a 175 Iwasaki bulb run on Ice cap/Coralvue ballasts will run at 165 watts. This coupled with better reflectors allows a much better coverage than LEDs can currently provide. One Luminarc reflector can sufficiantly light a 2'x3' area, and supply enough light to easily grow a variety of different corals. I guess I just like tried and true technology... MH have stood the test of time. But I am willing to change my mind in the future. Once they can create a spectrum that isn't so 2 dimensional..... IMHO

[Europhyllia]

For instance a 175 Iwasaki bulb run on Ice cap/Coralvue ballasts will run at 165 watts. This coupled with better reflectors allows a much better coverage than LEDs can currently provide. One Luminarc reflector can sufficiantly light a 2'x3' area, and supply enough light to easily grow a variety of different corals. I guess I just like tried and true technology... MH have stood the test of time. But I am willing to change my mind in the future. Once they can create a spectrum that isn't so 2 dimensional..... IMHO

"better coverage than LEDs can currently provide." I don't quite understand this comment. The optics on LEDs are quite variable. Even on a single AI module you find different lenses (40 degrees in the center and 70 degrees on the outside so spread is very similar to a reflector where still higher intensities are in the center and a more diffused light on the outside)
On other fixtures or DIY there's the possibility of completely forgoing optics/lenses and getting an even wider spread. It's very easy to manipulate and fine tune and mimic reflector style lighting with LEDs.
Two AI modules running at 75W each (total 150) easily cover a 3ft by 2ft area for me.

"Once they can create a spectrum that isn't so 2 dimensional"
What do you base this on?
I'll admit that because many customers seem to like that blue tone thing most ready made fixtures are sold with the typical cool-white/1 0r 2 types of blue combo of LEDs.
But goodness that so does not indicate the limit of what you can have if you want to go beyond a blue tank!
I had the hardest time picking LEDs for my DIY fixture. There are way too many options even just in white. And even within a color specification of white there are huge differences based on bin.
I am leaving you the CREE XP brochure for whites only for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP_B&L.pdf

It's totally okay to like MH better! And you don't even have to have a specific reason for it. Based on my experience though I think some of the reasons that have been presented why LEDs are inferior to MH however may be based on limited knowledge of the technical possibilities of current LEDs and somewhat anecdotal experiences with a limited amount of fixtures in use. That's just a guess though ;)

[jroescher]

I haven't considered LED's for several reasons.

1.) I'm lost. Too many different choices and not a clue where to begin.
2.) Too expensive. Especially to experiment with different choices.
3.) Technology changes too fast right now. Pretty sure that whatever I would decide on, it would be obsolete before I could recover from the expense.

[Troy Valentine]

"better coverage than LEDs can currently provide." I don't quite understand this comment. The optics on LEDs are quite variable. Even on a single AI module you find different lenses (40 degrees in the center and 70 degrees on the outside so spread is very similar to a reflector where still higher intensities are in the center and a more diffused light on the outside)
On other fixtures or DIY there's the possibility of completely forgoing optics/lenses and getting an even wider spread. It's very easy to manipulate and fine tune and mimic reflector style lighting with LEDs.
Two AI modules running at 75W each (total 150) easily cover a 3ft by 2ft area for me.

Yes, it will take 2 AI fixtures at over $1200 to do what 1 metal halide fixture with a 9 year old reflector design can do at $300. I know this doesn't include annual bulb replacement, but even with that it will take 10 years to recover your initial investment. Now are these fixtures going to last 10 years? Are individual parts going to be available for replacement? Or will they become obsolete? Know one can really answer that question..... But I can almost guarantee you that you can buy a replacement ballast in 10 years, and probably a more efficient one at that, and reflectors never go bad. This is somthing that will last a lifetime. So really to me there is know value, other than the "coolness factor" Which they are very cool;) I would just like to see people as hopeful with the advancement of MHs/reflectors as that are with other "experimental lighting" on an aquarium. But I guess there is nothing cool about old technology.
As to the "2 dimensional" look... I know that LED are constantly changing, and new colors are coming out day after day, it is truly amazing... I personally love the Panorama blue/magenta. I've been eyeballing them at Elegant Reef. But they are a new technology, especially for lighting corals, and since LED light is in a very narrow range, there is a need to pick and choose your different lighting scheme. To me they don't seem to blend as well as I would like. It looks like your are using different color bulbs to light your tank. Where as 1 MH covers the ENTIRE spectrum in a perfect undetectable blended. I like 453nm I just don't want to actually see 453nm on my sand bed or any other color for that matter:)
And the biggest reason for me is that; Do I really want a "new" color diode. That hasn't been tested yet over a mature reef? This hobby has enough variables built in, a lot of what we do is experimental. I'm a simple man, I like the foundation for my system to be simple. Something that has been proven time and time again to work. I will do a good enough job at complicating everything else. LEDs do have tons of potential but for me, I think I'll pass for now.

[alton]

This post is funny because it reminds me of the old arguements between T5s, MH, electronic ballast, except now we have added Leds to the discusion. Remember for most corals the reds and yellows get filtered out because of there depth in the ocean.

[kkiel02]

Yes warm colors are gone quickly in the ocean. Its the blues and violets that penetrate the farthest, but the warm colors can really make a coral pop.

I like my halides but do plan on replacing the t5 which lights the middle of my reef with leds.

Edited- The growth part as I was looking from the plant side of things then at work I realized that coral are actually animals and I cannot speak about their photosynthesis. I would think it is similar but am not 100%.

[CoryDude]

I said it before and I'll say it again, you haven't seen a full spectrum LED set up. You are basing your visual perception of LEDs on set ups that were stocked only with cool white and blues... ;)

There's no reason to get snooty about this. I've based my opinions after seeing many led setups. I just don't like the neon look they put out. It's like two houses lit up for christmas with one using traditional c7 lights and the other using leds. One car drives by and the kids like the c7 house, another one drives by and likes the led house. I'm in the first car and Karin's in the 2nd car running me off the road just because I prefer the incandescent house.

Back to the original question...yes halides will always be around as long as they are legal. Now t-5's are here till leds come down in price.

[Gseclipse02]

lol