share your frozen food secrets with me-pics p3

[Europhyllia]

I feed a lot. The amount of frozen food I go through is incredible. Because I hate freezer burn I actually buy in cubes whenever possible. It also makes it easier to keep the right ratio: seahorses get 1 cube of PE Mysis and 1 cube of Hikari mysis per day. The reef tank gets: 3 cubes Hikari, 1 cube PE, 1 piece Prawn eggs, 1 cube cyclops, 1 cube daphnia, 2 cubes rotifers, 1 cube oyster eggs, sometimes cyclop-eeze, 2 cubes bloodworms. Needless to say it's expensive. I know lots of people make their own slurries but specifically how do you do it? For example hod do you mix it all up without a) chopping it all to bits. most of my fish and seahorses want actual shrimp pieces not mush, b) completely defrosting it since anything over 40 degrees will encourage bacteria growth, c) prevent the cell damage that occurs when something gets defrosted and refrozen (and subsequent loss of nutritional value), d) prevent freezer burn of the larger portion (PS: I know typing this in one paragraph is annoying and it's full of typos but with the new layout I can't edit or format in my browser :( sorry)

[allan]

Hi Karin,

I make my own stuff... but I don't experience freezer burn. Not sure why anyone would unless they save it all in one single sheet that get exposed as you start pulling out chunks.

Freezing causes cell damage, thawing out doesn't do much more damage. Just lets the damage be seen under a microscope since the damage is at the cellular level. I only defrost (through a sample of tank water) what I'm fixing to feed so nutrient loss is minimal to nonexistent IMO. I would imagine that part of why you would like this is for the microscopic nutrients that are released from within the cells to feed your filters. Just my opinion mind you as I've never read or researched any of this.


When Sponge Bob was with us I’d blend three different batches. One would be my larger chunks, and I would blend this in a medium batch as I only fed it to SB and whatever the other fish would eat. The smallest batch was blended to an extra fine blend of mess that would come out as a gloppity gloop of biomass. This I fed for the LPS, Softies, and whatever else ate at night. The largest blend would be a medium blend that all of the fish, even SB and my filter feeders, would devour.



I would make each mixture the same except for the coral food which I used more coral frenzy and less vegetable stuff like seaweed.



I would also experiment with different blends, however the following is typically what I would mix in.



Squid, octopus, shrimp, seaweed, a flat of blood worms, a flat of mysis, a flat of the brine that is filled with that nutrient. I’d thaw the last three, but the first four I would by frozen and chop in the blender (I’ve got my own that Gloria has given me for this purpose, when I sell my tank it will most likely go with the buyer) to the desired consistency dependant on which batch I was making. Then I would take the thawed flats of prepared food, mix it all together by hand while adding things like a dash of this and a dash of that to give the amino strains that people always talk about.



After I had a large bowl of what can only be described as… well, fish food… I’d rinse my hands in the display tank to let the guys eat. Then I would go back to the kitchen and start stuffing the heavy duty freezer zip locks. I like the one with the little slide on it. I’d start with a half handful in each, smashed down to a quarter inch or so, evenly spread across the entire bag and set it off to the side. Once all were filled I’ll head over to the tank to rinse my hands again (the fish love it on food prep day). I then take each of the small flat baggies and stack them in a larger freezer safe ziplock, squeeze all the air out and put them in the freezer. I use the seldom opened freezer for the food that isn’t to be used right away.



The three bags to be used immediately are put in the freezer below our fridge. I typically approximate a sample for food each time I feed. I’ve tried a couple of different ways of storing it… my favorite is to take out the frozen sheet, use meat shears to cut it into several uniform cube sizes, and throw these into a small twist top container. I then pull a cube out each day to feed in the evening. Every other day I take a cube of the extra fine for the LPS (I’ve been slacking on this one), and now that SB isn’t with us I’ve stopped using the extra large.



The chunks are readily devoured by all. My pickiest eater is the cardinal… he doesn’t like the pellet food and the Chalk Bassellete struggles with the pellets as well. Both eat with gusto all of the mess I put into the tank.



I don’t keep horses so I’m uncertain as to how that would affect the feeding regimen that I’ve developed over the last two and half years.

[allan]

Oh, and I'm out about thirty dollars. I get my seaweed from the Asian place... or at the PX, and the HEB provides the Octo, Squid, Mussles, Shrimps, and clam meat... and I get about $1.5 to $2 of each.

[tony]

when i fed a lot i would buy mysis, brine, and cyclopeze and thaw it out, mix it up, then refreeze it in gallon bags flat. be warned bulk cyclopeze goes a looooong way. it would be great to get 2-3 people and do a group food concoction. like allan i never had any problems with freezer burn either

[tebstan]

How do you defrost?

I plop all the cubes I want in a tupperware container, then float that container in lukewarm water. The food thaws, but still is cold to the touch. I never thought to check it's temperature.

I was worried if this was damaging, to defrost and refreeze. But, I haven't thought of a better way, either. I have a worse problem with freezer burn after the stuff is made, I've got to buy some better bags for freezing.

[BSJF]

If you are starting with sheets of food you can use a cheese grater then mix the shavings together. Do it all frozen and refreeze before it thaws. Can also shave up many types of meat this way. May need to partially thaw.I don't mess with making my own fodd any more. Rods food is so convenient.

[Europhyllia]

I tried Rod's! But the complete mix doesn't work for me because certain things don't get eaten by ANYBODY. So I already know part of what I dump in it immediately doomed to decay with not even a chance of it getting used. So I need a more specialized blend...

[justahobby]

Troy V makes/ made a great frozen food. Might shoot him a PM for input if he doesn't find this thread.

[Europhyllia]

my little crew has pretty specific needs in regards to what types of food I add so I am not really in the market to mix that up. My questions are more in regards to how to thaw and refreeze and package without nutrient loss, freezer burn and without making the pieces smaller than they are (like I need my mysis whole not chopped up, etc.)

[FireWater]

What about thawed enough to work with Karin? Once it is "mushy" enough then mix in a bowl over ice to keep it cold. If you need whole pieces then is there a need to run it through a blender? Also, if you blend it all together then wouldn't a quantity close to the 2 cubes be enough? You could go to a party store or maybe Wal-Mart and find some ice cube trays that were the right size and use the vacuum freezer bags to seal out freezer burn. The trays could be cut to a size that would fit into the ziplocs for quicker use and the ones left to sit in the freezer for a while could be the vacuumed bags.

[allan]

The reason I thaw the mysis and blood worms is so I don't have to blend it in the mixer to make smaller.

Freezer burn, I know this keeps coming up... but I've never experienced it. The flats that I make are the four by five (?) inch zip locks... and freezer burn doesn't set in before I finish the pack which typically lasts about two weeks or so.

You can also get one of those vacuum wands, and the associated ziplocs, and every time you take a piece out you can seal and re-vacuum. But I would imagine that you would be looking at a bag for months before freezer burn sets in.

Why do you think there's significant nutrient loss with freezing?

[Europhyllia]

I read about that nutrient loss from thawing and refreezing before but can't find it now. I always hear people using a blender - but yes. It should be possible to thaw it just below 40 degrees and mix it all without putting it in a food processor.

Now I can't wait to try this: Allan's quart bags are probably the way to go too. I bought a bulk bag of cubes before and they got so nasty from freezer burn. But it also was much more than what I'd use in a couple of weeks. So with a whole bunch of quart bags it should work.

I'll wait a couple of weeks to see if the seahorses get a new roomie (with yet more specific diet) and then I'll try a batch!!!

[FireWater]

http://www.amazon.com/Cubette-Mini-Ice-Cube-Trays/dp/B000I1ZXIK
http://www.usphome.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=80164&gclid=CNaqyp-XjqoCFcYE2godKis5xw


I cannot figure out how to post images to save my life-keeps telling they are too big. Anyway, these are links to 2 different small cube ice trays that I found Karin. One of which is silicone so it should hold up really well to continued use.

Allan, the cheapo vacuum ziplocs are the ones I was referring to as well. They work good for the price.

[Texreefer]

I used to do something almost identical to what Allen was describing when I had my 180 up and running and fed heavily.. I used to keep on or two flats in my mini freezer in the fish room... I recently moved the fridge to the back patio for ummm drinks n stuff... and when i thawed out the freezer section... i found a bag still sealed.. opened it and after two years in there it had no freezer burn. I didn't use it just because it had been in there so long but the fish, corals, etc really liked it

[allan]

Airborne John, I agree... btw, I sent in your first name and pic to Kidd Krad****... they were looking for dudes that shave their heads but are not naturally bald. And they wanted to know why shave... I think your reason is spot on, but it wasn't enough to get me on the air. :(

Karin,

My first iteration for the little cubes in the ice trays didn't work out for me. What I ended up doing was chopping each cube in half, and I didn't have but two ice trays. I even saved my old cube trays from the food packs that I got, filled them, froze them in a zippy and it worked well enough. But truth be known, those little plastic trays have a rough time being used once, I doubt that I would've ever been able to run the same tray three times.

Making food, for me, is one of those things that makes the hobby interesting. Right now I'm going through one of those bleh moods in regards to the aquarium, perhaps I need to make some more food.

[Kristy]

We've done the food mix thing a couple of times. I was very frustrated the time we used a blender, just didn't want the pieces of shrimp chopped up and even though we barely hit with a pulse or two just to mix it, it still ended up much smaller than what I wanted for our fish. I like the variety of food sizes we get when we use cubes, a lot like you are describing Karin.

Our method is a lot like Tebstan's, just letting it thaw but stay cold and then mix the different kinds together. We've put it in small ice cube trays and then lay Saran wrap over the top so that it doesn't let the oxygen in, slide that into the big ziploc bags on a tray in the freezer. That seemed to work pretty well with minimal freezer burn.

Honestly, though, even when we make our own mix, I seem to keep buying the cubes and feeding some of our mix, some cubed mysis, or whatever to get the distribution I want and differing distributions in our different tanks, so I don't know that it's ever perfect. Whatever you end up deciding to do, be sure you keep us posted. I'll be interested in your results. (I'm pretty sure you've put more thought in this diminished nutritional value than the rest of us have and also the bacteria introduced at 40 degrees.)

[kkiel02]

Karin did you go to the MAAST meeting when we made the food? The guy that presented did a nice job of explaining all the different vitamins and ingrediants that went into it. I think it was the guy from Kingfish Aquariums up in Austin but don't quote me on that.

[Europhyllia]

No I haven't. Did anybody take a video of it?
To be honest since joining the seahorse board I've been greatly influenced by seahorse Dan's ideas and not sure I would add much in terms of enrichments anymore (I used to swear by Selco) but I would love to see the video of the presentation if somebody has one!!! (always willing to change my mind if the new info is convincing ;) )

[kkiel02]

I didn't take a video or notes. I should have, but I didn't go prepared to that meeting. We each got a bag of food though. My fish loved it but after I was done with it I never got around to making my own.

[Bill S]

Here's how I did it, when I had a 215 reef tank full of fish and SPS:

I bought about once every 6 months from Drs F & S - spent about $100-150. They have $20 shipping, no matter how much, and we'd put a group order together for $3-500. I bought bulk of brine shrimp, mysis, bloodworms (these are a favorite), plankton, baby brine, rotifers, cyclops, daphnia, oyster eggs, etc (no tubifex). Mostly Hikari, as they have less water (don't buy just on price per oz! - look at the %moisture). I'd also buy dry phytoplan and zoplan.

I have 2 different mixes - one for fish, one for coral. Dump all of the frozen food into a big bowl. I'd let it thaw to just above freezing, mixing regularly. The fish in one bowl, coral food in another. Once thawed, you can mix dry into it - which I did for coral food. Then package into THIN quart ziplocks and freeze. Break off a piece, throw it in. This is WAY, way cheaper than cubes, and as much as I like to support local stores, it's hard to beat 1 lb packages of brine for $6. Most stores want $15 for it.

[Europhyllia]

Bill I think that's exactly how I am going to do it -right down to the thin quart bags...

[Bill S]

Bill I think that's exactly how I am going to do it -right down to the thin quart bags...

Just be sure to get the quarts THIN. I use a soup ladle, and put two per quart bag. You want it easy to break. The discus food I made is too thick.

I really like the variety, and so do the fish and corals. No "what did they get last time?" - and there's ALWAYS something for everyone.

[Europhyllia]

okay looks like a 1 week batch fills about a quart bag for the 215 tank. It turned out great! My usual mix. Easy to break at the 1 week volume.
I made a 1 week batch for the seahorses and that is too thin for the quart bag. got to make maybe 3 week batches for them.

One thought: according to the Reed guy on the NPS board food degrades as soon as water (doesn't matter if it's tank water or other) is added so I thaw it 'as is' and don't add tank water. Just thought I'd mention that in case people are wondering about the thawing: no water.

These flat sheets will be great! Save me money and keep me from having to push cubes out of 5 or 6 different trays every single day!

[tony]

thawing and refreezing has no ill effect, there is an article somewhere that explains why. i dont remember where though but ive done it long enough to believe it be true

rods was great stuff, however the grease and oil in it was horrible

put VERY little in each bag to make a flat, it is easy to make them too thick

[Europhyllia]

I am loving my bagged food! Thanks for the idea Bill. This is working out great for me. I can buy in bulk sheets and blocks and don't have to waste so much time mixing cubes each day!
http://www.dominopads.com/foodbags.jpg

[BSJF]

That turned out way cool!

[Bill S]

Thanks, Karin. Reminded me that I need a new batch of Discus food. I make it about 1x a year or so. Costs me about $10.

[Europhyllia]

lol I wish I could say the same... (10 bucks a year)

[Joseph]

http://www.livebrineshrimp.com/

[Europhyllia]

huh? you buy them live and then you freeze it?

[Bill S]

Here's the discus food ingredients:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z157/bstreep/fishfood.jpg

The green stuff that looks like guacamole is cod, shrimp and a few peas! Looks good, gotta be nasty.

[Europhyllia]

haha I was getting ready ask: do they get guacamole with it? lol
Looks really good.

[Bill S]

The red stuff is paprika. I think it's in many fish foods - helps with color.

[Europhyllia]

You know they put that in horse supplements too.