Need to brainstorm a new project... ALL OPINIONS WELCOME:)

[Troy Valentine]

Looking to make some major changes, and I need your input.(good-bad-whatever)

-Current system
Oceanic 240 (8x2x2) with matching Oceanic Stand. est. 8/04
Mixture of Zoas, LPS, SPS, and Clams
approx. 50g sump with built in fuge and 2-6"x30" skimmers

-Problem with system
My large Gigas Calm is blowing water out of the tank regularly now, and I am tired of cleaning/drying it up. And if this water happens to hit my light fixture it could be dangerous if my children are near it.

-My Idea
Get rid of the 240 tank, and go to a 150 (4'x2'x31")and put 2 freshwater Starphire 80 (2x2x31") to bookend the reef. I have never really had a freshwater tank, and I would like to do a nice planted Discus and German Blue Ram tank. I will keep the same Oceanic stand, and all of the filtration will remain the same for the reef tank.

- Some Questions for MAASTards
Should I drill the freshwater tanks, and incorporate a sump with them?
Can I use DI water in the freshwater systems?
What are some challenges to lookout for with freshwater planted tanks?
When is it necessary to dose CO2?


Troy

[LuckySingh]

No experience with the fresh water so cant say anything:confused:..
but thumbs up for that clam...That is a gigantor clam....ans should be awarded as Maast clam of all time....Sorry for goin off topic:)....
Hey troy i am sure all of us here wants to see the pic of that clam....

[Scream311]

Id drill the tanks. As it will look and operate cleaner. Besides you'll get wayy more flow versus Those hang on filters . They are for the birds.

I don't see an issue with using di water

Problems I have faced with planted tanks are the many hitch hikers that come with them. Snails can reproduce and take over a tank like crazy

Good luck friend. I'm in on the move when your ready

[bryancb]

For my fresh and brackish tanks i just use HOB filters especially a bio-wheel. I looked into using a sump but didnt seem to be as beneficial as with salt
For the water i switch my DI off and go with RO but even then youll have to add stuff to get the water right for fresh, i dont have discus so not positive but i think they require a few more additives if you use RO. And honestly my challenges are with saltwater, fresh seems to be more forgiving, the only thing ive had to worry with fresh is some initial die off with plants as they are added and those nasty snails that will hop on them. I setup a fresh planted for my nephew, whos 8, and its pretty stocked with plants but havent had to dose or add any CO2 for him and in 6 months he hasnt had a piece of algae. With my brackish its also stacked but i did dose and have a small DIY CO2 system i use sometimes to push growth. Now with the 36 bracksih i did have big algae outbreak till i trimmed the plants back and poof its gone. Got some really nice plants from Pollys and Gabe, and yes i feel stupid but bought one from petsmart which then died and gave me 5 bad snails

If you do find those snails call me and ill take them, my puffer loves nasty lil snails lol

[aquasport24]

I would keep the 240 and connect a separate cube just for the clam by itself.

[Scream311]

Got the perfect tank for that idea if troy was to go that route. 90 gall coming down soon. 28" tall

[Troy Valentine]

James and bryancb: Does surface skimming benefit a freshwater tank? Is there an issue of proteins/organics gathering on the surface that are difficult to remove without a surface skimmer? Or is carbon the answer to this problem if the system is without a surface skimmer?

[Troy Valentine]

I would keep the 240 and connect a separate cube just for the clam by itself.

I was actually planning on doing this originally, but my OCD kicked in, and I realized I need to keep the room as symmetrical as possible. I have a real weird issue with things that are not symmetrical. I'm strange I know:)


No experience with the fresh water so cant say anything:confused:..
but thumbs up for that clam...That is a gigantor clam....ans should be awarded as Maast clam of all time....Sorry for goin off topic:)....
Hey troy i am sure all of us here wants to see the pic of that clam....
:) I will take a more current photo>

[txmike]

Surface skimming will help on the FW setup .I would drill and use a wet dry for the FW .To preventing the hitch hikers on the plants put them in a RO/DI and bleach mix for a bit then you move them into RO/DI and change the water a few times and the plants will be clean of hitch hikers .When you set up let me know I will get the bleach to RO/DI mix from my wife for you ,She did this in all the FW planted that we use to have.As far as C02 not sure on that as we never stocked the plants that hard in any of our tanks.

Mike

[bryancb]

I dont think freshwater lifts the proteins like salt
Ive never had anything on the surface except the first few days from not rinsing the sand enough
Since i have HOB filters i use carbon and they keep the surface agitated enough

[Troy Valentine]

Surface skimming will help on the FW setup .I would drill and use a wet dry for the FW .To preventing the hitch hikers on the plants put them in a RO/DI and bleach mix for a bit then you move them into RO/DI and change the water a few times and the plants will be clean of hitch hikers .When you set up let me know I will get the bleach to RO/DI mix from my wife for you ,She did this in all the FW planted that we use to have.As far as C02 not sure on that as we never stocked the plants that hard in any of our tanks.

Mike

Thank you Mike, I remember how impressive your setups were. Definitely something to emulate.

[jc]

I had a a f/w discus tank set up for almost a year. You can get surface scum so I attached a surface skimmer to my canister filter. I would recommend just going with a sump. That way you have less clutter in the tank. I also dosed co2 with a ceramic diffuser on the output of the canister filter. It worked fine except for the *tsk *tsk sound from the diffuser. You do get micro bubbles using co2. I also used excel for a while and while it is more expensive I did get just as much growth as the co2 with the added benefit of less hair algae. You can buy excel in bulk and attach it to a doser. I had an accident with my co2 and killed 3 discus in a matter of minutes. Most definitely guard against hitchhikers on your plants. The snails grow like crazy and clog up your filter intakes or impellers. I also dosed dry ferts. It was not that difficult. I put them in a daily pill reminder and I just popped the top open and added it to a small cup of water. Since you have to feed your fish every day I didn't consider it an extra hassle. You could also put the dry ferts in a doser but some of it will float on top and get sucked into the filter which might not be a bad thing since it would probably get mixed in eventually.

[Troy Valentine]

I dont think freshwater lifts the proteins like salt
Ive never had anything on the surface except the first few days from not rinsing the sand enough
Since i have HOB filters i use carbon and they keep the surface agitated enough

How often do you change your carbon? And does the carbon remove organics necessary for the nitrogen cycle and ultimate health of the plants?

[Troy Valentine]

I had a a f/w discus tank set up for almost a year. You can get surface scum so I attached a surface skimmer to my canister filter. I would recommend just going with a sump. That way you have less clutter in the tank. I also dosed co2 with a ceramic diffuser on the output of the canister filter. It worked fine except for the *tsk *tsk sound from the diffuser. You do get micro bubbles using co2. I also used excel for a while and while it is more expensive I did get just as much growth as the co2 with the added benefit of less hair algae. You can buy excel in bulk and attach it to a doser. I had an accident with my co2 and killed 3 discus in a matter of minutes.
I plan on using one ATO for the reef tank and FW systems. I will create an in-line reaction chamber for the fertilizer and CO2. Now how do you know when it is necessary to add CO2? Won't the excess CO2 cause the PH to drop in the system?

[Troy Valentine]

Can you feed your freshwater plant cuttings to your Tangs? Free food is always good....

[allan]

How about a square piece of plexiglass just below the surface to block the clam's stream? Or threaten clam chowder. :)

[tebstan]

Be sure to find out the preferred pH of the discus you purchase. There can be quite a range depending on who bred them.

I've never tried a bleach dip on plants. What's the ratio?

I've used salt dips, but it varies a lot. Some plants can handle a lot more than others.

There's also these really cool and really effective critters:

Assasin Snails (anentome helena)
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/gallery/files/2/6/4/_MG_5131s.jpg
They're pretty aggressive hunters


http://youtu.be/azocOf0l5sw

[CoryDude]

Troy, I'm starting see a totm curse. It seems like half the tanks we feature end up coming done right afterwards. But, then I saw you mentioned blue rams and discus, my two favorite fw fish of all time.

Agree with everyone else that surface skimming is the way to go on both the salt and fw tanks. I would definitely use some sort of cover on the fw tank to keep salt spray from entering it. When I had a fw tank next to a salt, the fw tank would always have a slightly elevated specific gravitity (1.001-1.004). Not much, but it may be a problem with the discus.

Have you thought about using a hiatt on the fw tank? If you want, I've got a spare torpedo sitting in the garage that you could use.

For anyone interested, here's pics of the aforementioned culprit.
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp100/cpryor74/DSC_0012.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp100/cpryor74/DSC_0054.jpg

[jc]

Use a drop checker to measure the right amount of co2.
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/images/cal-aqua-checker_sm.jpg

[Triggerman]

Hey Troy...interesting project...go with wet/dry filters on the freshwater tanks as well but lower flow than your reef tank...look into fintique for the discus since they're already adjusted to our SA hard water..

Also you can bite the bullet an get a larger reef tank to accomodate that monster gigas...

Ray

[justahobby]

When I read up in the planted forums people tended to stay away from sumps and wet dry filters because you want to minimize gas exchange. Reason: CO2 dissipates faster which slows plant growth. With a CO2 canister and efficient diffuser it may not be that big of an issue.

IMO freshwater was just SO boring. The fish do nothing cool. They have the personality of a paper bag.

[BSJF]

I'd stick with saltwater tanks.

A clam only (with a top) in one, bare bottom.
A planted macro tank with a pair of somethings in the other.

I think freshwater tanks next to your reef will detract from it's awesomeness.

But, whatever you love to look at is what should be in that room!

[Europhyllia]

a clam tank and a seahorse tank :)

[txmike]

I would have to say a clam reef and sea horse would be cool .if you want to go FW try african cichlids mine i loved and they are such fun to watch at feeding time .but plants wont make it long with them.

[danvan75]

how heavy do you think that clam is? If you do move it out of your tank, what would you transport it in? just wondering.

[BSJF]

definitely unplug the lights if you move that clam, and expect a shower! Make sure to lay it on its side when you move it too.

[Troy Valentine]

Thank you for all the replys:) You guys are the best.....

I have thought about doing specimen tanks, and a big part of my "build plan" is to be able to convert it back to SW if I don't feel the attachment to my planted system. I think my facination with FW is similar to my facination with SW. For me its never been about the fish, rather its our ability to sustain coral and micro-life that continues to amaze me. When I see a beautiful well planted FW tank, I feel that same feeling. Can I provide the necessary chemistry to keep the plants alive, and provide a suitable home for the fish? Thats the challenge for me.... I admit I am completely ignorant when it comes to FW systems. So perhaps I am making an unfair comparison between FW system and SW systems. But IMHO I have see FW setup rival any SW setup.

Here is a pic I found of a system I would like to replicate..
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/crshadow/APC%20Journal/AngelsinParadiseAngle-1024.jpg

[Troy Valentine]

a clam tank and a seahorse tank :)

I've tried seahorse systems in the past, and I have found that they require far more attention than I am willing to put forth. I also found that I got really attached to them, and I felt incredibly bad when they eventually died because of my inattentiveness. There are 2 specimens that I have a unique attachment for,1 is an Octopus, and the other are seahorses. I have a lot of respect for people who can keep these beautiful creatures......


how heavy do you think that clam is? If you do move it out of your tank, what would you transport it in? just wondering.

Not sure, but I would guess around 50lbs or so. It is one giant muscle.... I am planning on using a large plastic bag. Submerge it, and put the clam into it without exposing it to air. This will take a couple of people to do. I'm sure that bag will be quit heavy once out of the water......


How about a square piece of plexiglass just below the surface to block the clam's stream? Or threaten clam chowder. :)

This is a good idea, but the problem is that it would take an 18"x18" sheet of plexiglass to block the discharge of water. The siphon can blast water from 360 degrees. Where ever its pointing, thats were the water is going. The other issue is the force the water is being expelled. The top of the clam is 10" under water. That is a powerful stream to send a pint/quart of water shooting out of the tank, and onto the floor. Maybe I need big Allan to come threaten it alittle:) I love clam chowder......

[Troy Valentine]

Also you can bite the bullet an get a larger reef tank to accomodate that monster gigas...

Ray

RayRay you know Tamara.... Shes is just as patient as I am obsessed. But this might put her over the edge.... "bit the bullet" Thats what I'm afraid of:/

[Louis]

Troy, the planted "bug" has bit me too! I'm actually about to turn my 215-in-wall into a planted discus tank. I'm keeping my sump and installing a few Hydro Sponge air driven filters for biological filtration. I'm considering shelving my halides and running a few 6' VHO's (currently actinics) and CO2 (formerly used for calcium reactor). Here is some inspiration blue aquarium.org (http://www.blueaquarium.org).

[Mr Cob]

Troy, I'm also captured by the plants...here's to assist you in getting lost for a bit....I can spend hours clicking on YouTube from one planted tank to the next.


http://youtu.be/UkhDJ_fqLHI

[Mr Cob]

Troy, the planted "bug" has bit me too! I'm actually about to turn my 215-in-wall into a planted discus tank. I'm keeping my sump and installing a few Hydro Sponge air driven filters for biological filtration. I'm considering shelving my halides and running a few 6' VHO's (currently actinics) and CO2 (formerly used for calcium reactor). Here is some inspiration blue aquarium.org (http://www.blueaquarium.org).

I so hope you post pics Louis!

[Louis]

I so hope you post pics Louis!You know it!