Help with Coral Farming DIY

[jrossjr79]

Ok, first off let me say I am brand new to the hobby. I still do not have my own tank. Which I hope to change soon. I have always loved looking at salt water tanks, the fish, the coral, everything. Love the way it looks even more underwater. (Yes I scuba too).

First thing I want to do though is a big DIY project. I want to start a coral farm in my back yard. I know the size of the tank I want to build. Plywood. It would roughly be a 6'x10' and being 3' deep. Will have a foldable canopy of blue tinted acrylic glass.

Oh almost forgot what would be the best set of corals to farm in these conditions.

[allan]

Welcome to Maast dude.

Man that sounds like a fun project. Temperature may be an issue but I imagine with that volume you could cool with fans and a water fall or fountain... Not sure how much temperature control you would have.

Coral farm implies a business of sorts. Is that your intent?

Would really enjoy seeing this build.

[jc]

I'm not sure why the tank needs to be 3' deep. Most of the pictures i've seen of these projects use shallow tanks.

[Big_Pun]

just wondering why you want a propagation system instead of display system if you haven't done salt water?

[jrossjr79]

Welcome to Maast dude.

Man that sounds like a fun project. Temperature may be an issue but I imagine with that volume you could cool with fans and a water fall or fountain... Not sure how much temperature control you would have.

Actually I think I got some of that covered, as far as cooling, was plan on using an idea I saw in some other forums. Having return pipes 3' below ground probable for a distance of 15' with some curves, or just 11'. I read this is a good efficient way to keep the temperatures down on a hot day. And may even help keep a little warm for our winters, not 100% on that though. However I am curious to see what others think to see if that would keep it cool enough, if not, then what else I can do to keep the wattage down low as possible.




Coral farm implies a business of sorts. Is that your intent?


It is the majority of my intent, but first starting out would be more of a hobby till I would have a good supply of frags of different assortments to work with.



I'm not sure why the tank needs to be 3' deep. Most of the pictures i've seen of these projects use shallow tanks.

I may be changing that to 1.5' to 2'. Not 100 % sure as of yet. I was thinking 3' originally to help keep the water cooler, since it would take more heat at longer times with more water.

[jrossjr79]

just wondering why you want a propagation system instead of display system if you haven't done salt water?

Three reasons, one to make a little extra cash, which I know would not be right then and there, 2nd keeps me busy, 3rd, which is probable the most important, at this time, my house is just to small for a display tank. I am hoping I can get a bigger house in 2 - 3 years that would have efficient room for a display tank. LOL, I dont even have room for those Nano tanks. But I figure I can get my feet wet (litterally it would seem) in the hobby, make some extra cash, and learn things. I learn better by doing.

[buck27]

What would worry me most would not be the summer heat as much as the winter cold. Your talking about heating 1350 gallons of water. That's gonna take some serious heaters even with the 3' deep return lines. If there is one thing I know about its cold weather. I'm from Iowa. Normal winter there can be 28 below zero lol no joke. Would be interesting to see how it turns out. You have a time frame in mind for this project?

[jrossjr79]

You have a time frame in mind for this project?
At this time I dont have a time frame in mind, I want to gather as much information as possible before I even start with the building process. The cold winter that is here worries me as well, since this tank would be outside. But I know there has to be a way to get around that. I personally jsut dont know what as of yet.

The main thing I want to set out to do right now, is finding out exactly what I need. I know I need to keep the tank cool during the summer months which I think I have covered. Keep it warm during the winter, which I am still looking for options. However I do not know if I need a skimmer, do I need some sort of agitator to create small ripples or waves for the corals, or if I need a sump tank as well. Also worried about massive growth of algae.

[buck27]

In my opinion the sunlight will be your biggest problem with algae but that may be able to be corrected with a shade cover that could be placed over the tank in the afternoons. As for the agitator I personally would build a dump style wave system for flow. Filtration is going to be your best friend however. For a system that large I would bulds a 275 gallon sump/fuge with a deep sand bed and a good uv sterilizer and a skimmer. I would then add about 4 or 5 yellow tangs to the tank for algae control and some snails. That's just me. I would also look into heating for ponds to see if there is a large enough heater out there or even cattle tank heaters that farmers use for winter time that could be converted with titanium coils.

[allan]

I'm thinking the main body where the farming happens, flowing into a portion that serves as a sump (algae and mangroves), spilling into a a return area where the water is pumped back to the other side. There have it waterfall over rocks for filtration/aeration into the main part again. That tail piece that goes into the return tank could double as a huge algae scrubber for added export.

Water changes, although may not be needed, should encourage you to plumb the system into the city system unless you like dead grass. Might want to check and see how much salt water is safe to dump without environmental concerns.

I'm thinking your ROI would be negligible to nonexistent.

As far as heating and cooling you may be better off building a greenhouse with AC. Then you can build the propagation tanks at a comfortable height. Ambient temp would regulate water temp. Still have the availability of solar energy for growth.

And the fact that mama won't have to deal with seeing what you're doing to her house you can safely build some elaborate scrubbers to keep your water pristine and maximize your water levels individually and at a low cost. Ie, tupleware containers for growth, shallow for sp requiring high heat and deep ones for those requiring the depth.

You won't have the expense of glass tanks.

You could build this close to the house and at a later date when you get your stones back :) you can pipe in a water supply to a display tank, run the return back outside and that would give you a 55gallon DT with a 1000 gallon fuge.

Most of us would salivate at that :D

[Texreefer]

bottom line is, there is a reason VERY few of these operations exist in Texas. even the most seasoned aquarists would have some difficulty creating a operating a system capable of sustaining a long term operation in this environment...and if you go through with it.. make sure your pockets are very deep. Cooling alone will probably run you several hundred a month unless you have an indoor climate controlled system

[paul]

bigger tank such as 3 feet tall doesn't mean the more water the more heat it takes to heat up. in the summer temperature the tank will reach 86-90 degrees in the shade. that size tank will never cool off on its own, not even if a cold front was to hit. it would take days of a cold front just to drop it a few degrees if any. you're best bet is to do more research. tanks that size are usually displays. i seen a lot of websites from australia where they build large tanks out of plywood. you are best to use a shallow tank for lighting purposes. make it shallow and long if you want, but don't go deep.

[paul]

i think it would be impossible to build something that large outdoors. you would need a chiller that would run thousands of dollars and heaters that would be insane. corals are more critical to temperatures especially heat.

[jrossjr79]

I thank everyone with their insights, whether it is discouraging and or encouraging. I will be doing alot more research before I even decide to make the plans or the build. I dont want to invest all the money I would need to invest and fail miserably.

I will be going through with it, and that is a fact, I am getting more of an idea of how I want things, but I am still far off from the actual design planning.

I will be keeping everyone posted, including with pictures and design plans.

[CoryDude]

It would probably be cheaper to rent a small wharehouse space and setup the right equipment than to do a coral farm outside. The previous owners of the Aquadome in Austin had the same idea. They even had the covered greenhouses in the back, and they couldn't get the project off the ground because of the temperature extremes.

I pretty sure you've seen the threads on reefcentral with the greenhouse/coral farms. The money you'd spend on this project would probably cover a nice sized downpayment on a larger house.

[jrossjr79]

Ya, as I am researching and talking with Allan over PMs I am noticing that. If I do setup at this house, which I am getting discouraged about, it would be using those wooden sheds you buy from home depot and converting it to a green house. Not really the route I wanted to go, so I may hold off till I get a bigger house. Still looking at my options, but it is not looking so good.

[Mr Cob]

I love that you have no fear on a project so large...also love that you are posting your ideas and asking questions. That's a sign of a very wise person. I plan to do a climate controlled greenhouse one of these days and can appreciate the "big idea".

I know you said you don't have the room in your current home for even a nano tank, but I do think it would be of a great benefit for you to take some time keeping corals in a less expensive environment to get the basics of this hobby down first before venturing into such a large project. What you learn from keeping small tanks will surely prove to be very helpful in your plans for the much larger projects and may be at the root of some new ideas for you.

welcome to MAAST too.

[grouch]

What would worry me most would not be the summer heat as much as the winter cold. Your talking about heating 1350 gallons of water. That's gonna take some serious heaters even with the 3' deep return lines. If there is one thing I know about its cold weather. I'm from Iowa. Normal winter there can be 28 below zero lol no joke. Would be interesting to see how it turns out. You have a time frame in mind for this project?

That is not true I'm from IOWA also and I've only seen it get -27 below. LOL Seriously the utilities to regulate an outdoor tank would cost $$$$.

[jrossjr79]

I love that you have no fear on a project so large...also love that you are posting your ideas and asking questions. That's a sign of a very wise person. I plan to do a climate controlled greenhouse one of these days and can appreciate the "big idea".

Thank you, I always believe if you are going to do something do it big, but take precautions and do the research.




I know you said you don't have the room in your current home for even a nano tank, but I do think it would be of a great benefit for you to take some time keeping corals in a less expensive environment to get the basics of this hobby down first before venturing into such a large project. What you learn from keeping small tanks will surely prove to be very helpful in your plans for the much larger projects and may be at the root of some new ideas for you.

welcome to MAAST too.

I may have found a space for a 50 - 75 gallon tank, wondering if that is sufficient enough space to do a small display tank of coral, maybe do a little bit of propagating in. I know I cant do to much but I may be able to pull some off



That is not true I'm from IOWA also and I've only seen it get -27 below. LOL Seriously the utilities to regulate an outdoor tank would cost $$$$.

It gets cold down here, but not that cold, I think the coldest I ever seen was about 55 degrees, other than the year that it snowed here. I am taking the cold into consideration, however the heat and algae are my main concern. If I do an out door setup here at this house I am looking into heater with an upfront chiller that is used for pools.

Oh by the way, I am changing the dimensions. 10'x6'x18". Which is roughly 673 gallons, give or take a few liters.

[Mr Cob]

a 50 - 70 gal is a perfect size for a first tank...it's not too small so the parameters can stay stable with ease and it's not so big that the cost gets out of hand. I have a 55g with a few mother colonies that I farm from.

[ramsey]

It gets cold down here, but not that cold, I think the coldest I ever seen was about 55 degrees, other than the year that it snowed here. I am taking the cold into consideration, however the heat and algae are my main concern. If I do an out door setup here at this house I am looking into heater with an upfront chiller that is used for pools.



Are you talking about San Antonio? If so, it gets a lot colder than 55 degrees during the winter. I can't remember a time when it didn't freeze overnight for a least a few days during winter. Maybe not far below freezing, but you get the point.

[jrossjr79]

Are you talking about San Antonio? If so, it gets a lot colder than 55 degrees during the winter. I can't remember a time when it didn't freeze overnight for a least a few days during winter. Maybe not far below freezing, but you get the point.


You know what your right, just this past winter we had 3 or 4 days that dropped below freezing.


UPDATE:
Well apparently I dont have room inside my house after all. The only place I had room for the 50 - 75 gallon tank was in the kitchen right next to a sliding glass door. Which both as it seems is a no no for salt water tanks. :( I really need to get a bigger house. Oh well I need to start getting more work so I can get that house quicker.

Oh and if anyone can point me in some other directions to read up on more in this hobby.

Thanks

[justahobby]

Making house plans around your reef tank.... you are already a true reefer :D. We have some good books in our library available to charter members. There is a plethora of info on here if you use the search function. I've learned that using reef forum search features yield better results than googling. Reef Central is a fantastic place for info. Getting an answer to questions can be more difficult though since they have such high volume.

[Richard]

Three reasons, one to spend alot of extra cash,

I went ahead and fixed the first reason for you :).

Seriously, put the idea of making money growing corals out of your head.

[jrossjr79]

I went ahead and fixed the first reason for you :).

Seriously, put the idea of making money growing corals out of your head.

To be fair, I said it would be starting out as a hobby, I know I would be putting alot of money up front, and only see a fraction of a small return back for a good long time. It would be just to put an extra 20 - 80 dollars a month or two months in my pocket. Which in turn would be spent more in this hobby as well as my scuba as well.


Making house plans around your reef tank.... you are already a true reefer :D. We have some good books in our library available to charter members. There is a plethora of info on here if you use the search function. I've learned that using reef forum search features yield better results than googling. Reef Central is a fantastic place for info. Getting an answer to questions can be more difficult though since they have such high volume.

Thanks for the compliment and the information :)

[ramsey]

You know what your right, just this past winter we had 3 or 4 days that dropped below freezing.




Yeah, it's usually just overnight though sometimes it's during the day as well. Either way, it's something to be mindful of if you're doing the outdoor thing. I do think what you're trying to do is awesome! I've thought about doing an outdoor coral grow room but I never had the stones to actually do it. Very cool though!

[BSJF]

It would be just to put an extra 20 - 80 dollars a month or two months in my pocket.


I really don't mean to be negative because I can see you are really excited about this concept. And although what you have in this thread is an interesting concept (with plenty more to research), with the initial upfront cost and the ongoing monthly utility/maintenance costs, I don't see how you would ever achieve a profit. But, maybe I'm wrong. All I'm saying is don't do it if that is your expectation (even in the long term). You are already talking about getting into a larger home at somepoint, so you have a short term timeline to make your profit, not long term. And doing all of this will not add to the resale value (could even devalue) of your existing property.

Then, there are the fountains that freeze here, inground pools get 90 degrees, utilities...

As far as research, I'd search for some island that gets hot/cold like here (if you can find one), then see how they aquaculture stuff there.

Have you considered having all of it inground? (Viewable only from the top?)

[jrossjr79]

I really don't mean to be negative because I can see you are really excited about this concept. And although what you have in this thread is an interesting concept (with plenty more to research), with the initial upfront cost and the ongoing monthly utility/maintenance costs, I don't see how you would ever achieve a profit. But, maybe I'm wrong. All I'm saying is don't do it if that is your expectation (even in the long term). You are already talking about getting into a larger home at somepoint, so you have a short term timeline to make your profit, not long term. And doing all of this will not add to the resale value (could even devalue) of your existing property.

Then, there are the fountains that freeze here, inground pools get 90 degrees, utilities...

As far as research, I'd search for some island that gets hot/cold like here (if you can find one), then see how they aquaculture stuff there.

Have you considered having all of it inground? (Viewable only from the top?)

Ya I have already decided that I am going to wait till I get my new house. Then I am going to start smaller. Thinking of a 150G - 250G Display Tank.

Never thought of having the tank inground, would be a little afraid to because of the 3 kids (1 yr, 8yr, and 9yr old) as well my wifes little Pug. I would also think being inground would need more cleaning and filtration because of the debris being blown around from ground level.

As far as the small amounts of cash every now and then from selling frags. Not expecting to make a profit. But why just spend spend spend, If you are propagating you are not just spending, but getting some money in. Therefore, not a profit, more of a discount on running the tanks. As well as useful for trading for other frags that I would not currently have. :)