friendly reminder about palytoxin

[hobogato]

i have had a reaction after fragging zoas and palys twice - once from absent mindedly rubbing the corner of my eye and once bc i had scratches on the back of my hand and did not wear gloves. it is no fun and can be a big health hazard as noted in this article i just stumbled upon:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/05/world%E2%80%99s-2nd-deadliest-poison-in-an-aquarium-store-near-you/

[Regric25]

WOW!!!!!!!!

"Venom enthusiasts know that the potency of poisons is measured using the LD-50 – the dose that will kill half a group of mice after a set time. The most venomous snake has an LD-50 of 25 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. For tetrodotoxin, the equivalent figure is 8 micrograms. For batrachotoxin, the poison from the skin of poison dart frogs, it’s 2-7 micrograms. For palytoxin, it’s 0.3 micrograms (or 300 nanograms)."

This is crazy! Maybe this will convince my wife that snakes are safer than corals! LOL JK

[ErikH]

Yeah, fragging can be very dangerous. I had a zoa pop while trying to get under the mat and a drop caught me in the eye. There's one guy on RC that it happened to and WHOA!; it looked bad. Jeremy had it happen too I believe. Not cool.

Don't just wear gloves, wear glasses.

[allan]

I hate math. So, are they saying it only takes .3 micrograms per kilogram to give a 50 pct kill ratio?

So if I'm 135 k, it would take 20.5 micros? Incidentally, how much is in a single paly?

Intramuscular or intravenously? Ingesting?

This is kind of cool... Except for the math.

[FireWater]

Allan, keep it simple. Toxin bad - wear safety gear.

Under normal conditions a person is fine when coming into contact with the toxin in a small amount. The problems arise with open wounds and orifices that make it easier to absorb the toxin. The normal conditions in which toxins are taken into our bodies are ingestion (mouth), injection (puncture), inhalation (breathing), and absorption (contact with skin). Safety glasses, latex gloves, and mask of some kind should be normal practice when fragging or even handling palys. Also be sure to thoroughly wash hands prior to doing anything else once done with handling them.

[allan]

Hmmm, I've received a number of infections from my tank already. In fact they know me fairly well at the tmc :)

Gloves are a real good idea, but it's difficult for me to find ones that fit.

Actually, I'm very interested in all my questions above, not for fear of becoming a victim but rather in the event that such information becomes necessary.

[justahobby]

Not only math, but a word problem! LOL. My take on it is this:

For every Kg of mice it takes:

25 micrograms - deadliest snake venom
8 ^ - pufferfish
2-7 ^ - dart frog
0.3 ^ - zoas

to get a 50% kill rate. As you probably know, mice have very similiar innards so per/ kg it is likely to have the same effect on us. So a 100kg child would need 30 micrograms of palytoxin to have the luck of a coin flip on going to candy land.

[allan]

That is one large child bro.

Tell you what, if ever I happen across a kilo of mouse, well, I'm heading in the other direction.

[jroescher]

I've seen several articles and news reports about this subject lately. The sad part of this is that now that there's all this media exposure, someone will introduce a bill to regulate zoas in aquariums so that we don't hurt ourself.

[ErikH]

Gloves aren't as important as glasses imho. As long as you don't rub your eyes!

[jc]

I've been thinking about palytoxin lately. I wanted to redo my tank and just keep it sps, but I have a some pale palys covering the entire overflow. I wonder what the best way to get rid of them would be.

[alton]

I just know that if an Angel Fish eats Zoos they will swim upside down for a while.

[hobogato]

you can probably remove the whole mat of palys with a razor blade, but i would run lots of fresh carbon to try to reduce the effect of any of the toxins they release in the process.

[justahobby]

Lol! Apparently I don't know how much a kilo is!

It seems like they would have a hard time regulating the sale when no one knows which are toxic. I assumed all had the toxin until reading that article.

[ErikH]

Lol! Apparently I don't know how much a kilo is!

It seems like they would have a hard time regulating the sale when no one knows which are toxic. I assumed all had the toxin until reading that article.

I have often wondered if the more vibrant zoas and palys follow the same color scheme as animals do in the wild. "I am bright, don't eat me or you will die."
That would mean my texas trash are harmless. ;)

[allan]

We could garnish our salads with Texas trash and not be affected. :)

[hobogato]

nice theory you two, but one of the times i was affected was from removing those from a rock. they will get you about four hours of headache, nausea, dizziness, and metalic taste in your mouth.

[allan]

Ace that sounds like the best way to get out of doing the dishes :D

[ErikH]

I had the same feeling after as well.

I found the RC article that was like WHOA.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1858696

[ErikH]

Here's another article....

http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/94382-palytoxin-dont-frag-under-influence.html