15 Brand New Baby Bangaii Cardinals :-) .... Now What :-/

[SoLiD]

Well, last night at around midnight I noticed that the eggs had hatched in my male Bangaii Cardinal's mouth. So I scooped him up and held him in my hands as he gently released the babies into a breeder net I have in my Tank just for that purpose. Now I have 15 babies in there and it is one of the coolest things I've ever experienced in this hobby. The only thing is, now what? I don't have any Live Baby Brine or Rotifers to offer them. I'd hate to have them slowly starve... Anyone have any tips, suggestions, or alternative solutions. Thanks In Advance.

[SoLiD]

Picture of the "Little Bang Guys".

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-08111316.jpg

[roscozman]

It is so easy to culture baby brine shrimp. This is all you need:
simple air pump (local fish store should have)
some brine shrimp eggs (local fish store should have)
two 16 oz. water bottles to culture them in (HEB)
One simple light (like a fuge light for cheato - Home Depot)

...and in less than 24 hrs you have food for your new babies. We been raising different batches for over a year now.

[Europhyllia]

Awesome!
Congrats. :)
Have you been to GC Reef before? They could probably give you some tips as well as hopefully have some supplies for the brine hatching for you to buy.
How convenient that they can go straight to baby brine rather than having to mess with rotifer cultures, etc.

[SoLiD]

It is so easy to culture baby brine shrimp. This is all you need:
simple air pump (local fish store should have)
some brine shrimp eggs (local fish store should have)
two 16 oz. water bottles to culture them in (HEB)
One simple light (like a fuge light for cheato - Home Depot)

...and in less than 24 hrs you have food for your new babies. We been raising different batches for over a year now.

Cool beans... I bought some frozen rotifers and put in half a cube. I saw them move around faster than normal all around the cloud of rotifers but their mouth is too small for me to see them eat anything. I also put in a small amount of high dollar freeze dried phyto algae and zoo plankton. They responded similarly. I found one of my old Brine culture tubes that I bought from Ace, now I'm off to an LFS to look for some BBS eggs to start my culture. Thanks for the heads up and for making it seem simpler than I thought. We shall see. :) Thanks Ross


Awesome!
Congrats. :)
Have you been to GC Reef before? They could probably give you some tips as well as hopefully have some supplies for the brine hatching for you to buy.
How convenient that they can go straight to baby brine rather than having to mess with rotifer cultures, etc.

Oh yeah I've been many times to GC Reef. Dr. Mark and I go way back. We both used to be board members here on Maast some years back. Really a great stand up guy. I will go by GCR and talk to Shelly today if she's there. Thanks Karin.

[Texreefer]

Hmmm, ive always wanted a pair of captive raised Bangaii. :bigsmile:

[SoLiD]

The brood is yours if you wanna raise the little buggers.... lol... J/k Mike.... It's a labor of love. :) ...

I can't believe that training my Bangaii's to eat out of my hand would have a great deal in helping me catch these little guys. My current tank is so full of coral that it would have taken a ton of effort and time to catch the male otherwise. I was literally able to catch the male without a net and hold him in my hand while he released the little ones into the breeder net. Then I just put him back... it was the weirdest thing. If I hadn't done it myself I would have cried Shenanigans :angel:

[Pennies2Cents]

Congrats David. Its an awesome experience.. :) The live brine really help in getting these guys eating quickly. :) Good luck with your new brood. :)

[roscozman]

Good to hear. Also, you can tell when they eat because their little heads will bob up and down.

[SoLiD]

Day 2: All still here.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-09153346.jpg

[BSJF]

Sweet!

[SoLiD]

Day 4 and they are all still here. They do grow fast.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-10140327.jpg

[Europhyllia]

What's really amazing is that they seem to be born perfect miniature versions of the adults.
No funny in between stages. And eating brine right away. Can't beat that!

[hobogato]

did you do anything special to coax the parents into breeding or do you think they are more likely to breed bc of all the live stuff you feed them (assuming you still go out and collect stuff for your tank)?

[SoLiD]

And I wake up every 4 hours or so to feed them... Just like a real baby... the other fish are like, "what? Its morning already" when I turn the lights on for about 20 minutes to feed them. I will probably mod one of my many LED flashlights as to not wake up the rest of my fish when I feed those guys. I'm like you, I like to fed thingss.

[SoLiD]

did you do anything special to coax the parents into breeding or do you think they are more likely to breed bc of all the live stuff you feed them (assuming you still go out and collect stuff for your tank)?

I read an article where a guy in Houston could actually regulate how often they bred by what he fed them. When he wanted them to breed he offered live feeder shrimp. As you know I've always done that to increase the diet diversity for all my fish. I feel like there is nothing like feeding live enriched foods. I am the crazy guy you see out in the dark with a net and a head lamp collecting live food for my fish. But let me share a tip with everyone. My Bangaii Cardinal fish aren't large enough in my opinion to even be successfully spawning. My first 3 broods were eaten by the male after about 15 days of holding them in his mouth. It wasn't until I made an effort to feed live and feed it often that I was sucessfull with my last 2 broods hatching. So the short answer is "Yes, I feed live shrimp and amphipods to encourage breeding". :)

[SoLiD]

As another side note, the female didn't start courting my male until I made a big cave for them to feel secluded. I also was playing with my lights around that time and almost immediately I started noticing the courtship between the female and her male. Within about an hour he was carrying... and I was worried when I found out that it take about 3 weeks for them to hatch because he didn't look big enough to fast for that long and sure enough he swallowed them up on day 16. But since then its has gotten better since I do feed quite a bit of live foods... also live food doesn't spoil or decay. It hides until it gets eaten. Now don't get me wrong, I feed a ton of frozen and a litle bit of high quallity flake foods. I have about $100 worth of all different types offrozen food in the freezer at the moment.

[hobogato]

great tips, thanks. now if i could just convince christy to let me turn my pond in the back yard into salt water, i could come catch a bunch of stuff with you and bring it home to live in my back yard. still need to get by some time when i am in town to see your tank

[SoLiD]

This was about a month ago. I took a quick pick during feeding to show "merlin" what his corals looked like in my tank. Its a Red Sea Max 130.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-02-26165055.jpg

[ErikH]

great tips, thanks. now if i could just convince christy to let me turn my pond in the back yard into salt water, i could come catch a bunch of stuff with you and bring it home to live in my back yard. still need to get by some time when i am in town to see your tank


So your pond will stay cool enough for Peps? Interesting! You already run your waste water there don't you? That sounds like a really good idea.

David, you da man! Those things look very big already. :)

[SoLiD]

great tips, thanks. now if i could just convince christy to let me turn my pond in the back yard into salt water, i could come catch a bunch of stuff with you and bring it home to live in my back yard. still need to get by some time when i am in town to see your tank

Dude, that would be an awesome thing to have in any back yard!!! Id have a ton of nice places to show you what to collect. Everything from shrimp, fish, crabs, pipefish, snails, mangroves, and macro algae. Some things are seasonal but atleast you would know what to look for. I should really start cataloging it all, but I get so busy with other things.

[Europhyllia]

Oh please mark it on a map where saltwater grass shrimp can be found. I am buying them at the petstore right now and I am glad Adriene is ordering them for us but at the rate the seahorses are snicking them a few dozen free ones would be great. :D

(do we need a special permit to collect this sort of thing?)

[SoLiD]

Oh please mark it on a map where saltwater grass shrimp can be found. I am buying them at the petstore right now and I am glad Adriene is ordering them for us but at the rate the seahorses are snicking them a few dozen free ones would be great. :D

(do we need a special permit to collect this sort of thing?)

I think you really don't need a permit for grass shrimp but you should have a fishing license just in case someone hassles you:

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/Shore-GrassShrimp-Bucket.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/Shore-GrassShrimp-BucketClose.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/Shore-GrassShrimpLabels.jpg

[SoLiD]

Call me Karin. I got an idea for you.

[hobogato]

sorry to hijack your thread, but i dont know how i would deal with the temp in the winter. this year the whole pond froze over with about 2" of ice. i am interested in catching some stuff next time i am in corpus tho. i still have some parts of my classroom setup that i would like to use for native stuff.

[SoLiD]

Oops lol... my number is 361-seven 74- 786 five

[SoLiD]

sorry to hijack your thread, but i dont know how i would deal with the temp in the winter. this year the whole pond froze over with about 2" of ice. i am interested in catching some stuff next time i am in corpus tho. i still have some parts of my classroom setup that i would like to use for native stuff.

It's okay. I've never been a "stay on topic" kind of guy. I'm always all over the place in my thinking anyway... adult ADD I guess :)

Awe man.... cell phone battery is dying... better hurry Karin... lol.

[Europhyllia]

Mine is already dead. LOL. In fact the plan for this weekend is to
a) get the last TOTM wrapped up and
b) buy a new phone that holds a charge longer than 1 minute.

I'll give you a call when I get that new phone ;)

(and dang that's a LOT of shrimp!!!)

[Pennies2Cents]

Hi David,

Maybe you can show us some spots during the Port A trip too...:blushing:

[SoLiD]

Day 5 and all still here. How much and how often should I be feeding these Little Bang Guys. Some of them look they are going to pop.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-12112034.jpg

[Pennies2Cents]

Day 5 and all still here. How much and how often should I be feeding these Little Bang Guys. Some of them look they are going to pop.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-12112034.jpg

When they are little like these guys are: We would feed often... Morning & Night

[SoLiD]

Day 6 came and went. I've got about 4 that are growing really fast; and at the rate they are, they be ready to put in the Main Display in about 2 months. I have one little guy that is much smaller than the others, but I guess that's normal.

The blur's in the photo's are because I took these during feeding time. They were darting after the brine shrimp. I'm about to order 1/2 lbs of Premium Brine Shrimp Eggs from brineshrimpdirect.com and some enrichments for later on.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-13154449.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-13154433.jpg

[BSJF]

Glad to see they are all doing so good. I can see Karin drooling through the computer over those shrimp.

[Europhyllia]

I can see Karin drooling through the computer over those shrimp.

LOL I already ordered some PraziPro laced fish food this morning for the shrimpsters :D

[roscozman]

Lookin' good David. brineshrimpdirect is where we ordered from as well...

[SoLiD]

Day 7: I think I lost 1 of the 2 with a deformed tail... :( poor little guy... down to 14. Trying to get better pictures using an LED flash light.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-14231941.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-13154505.jpg

Emailed brineshrimpdirect.com and they said maast members qualify for a 5% discount and that the discount code is on this site somewhere, but I could not find it. They said to email them again if I couldn't find it and they would email it to me...

[MRSBIGBIRD123]

If anyone can make them survive, it's David.

[Europhyllia]

You still have a really good survival rate even with the one lost! (Probably because you get up at night and feed them then too. ;) )
I order from BSD quite a bit (algae paste, etc.) so if you find a coupon code, share it please! :D

[roscozman]

I think a critical time period is around day 13-14.

[SoLiD]

Day Nine:

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-16233139.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-16233217.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-16233206.jpg

[Europhyllia]

looking good!

(what's the pretty spotted thing in the lower right corner? shrimp? crab?)

[ErikH]

looks like a harlequin shrimp, maybe a harley crab, that would be awesome.

[SoLiD]

It's a small male Harlequin Shrimp that I bought when he was teeny tiny. My female is monstrous when compared to him so I put him in the safety of the breeder net.... til he gets bigger of course...

[SoLiD]

This is the brineshrimpdirect.com 5% Discount Code : 05114 . The sales support person said I could post it here.

[SoLiD]

A Few Updates: Day 13. I lost the other deformed Bangaii along with 2 other small ones and 1 large one :cry_smile: Now there are 10. They get fed in 5-6 small increments of live brine shrimp around the clock.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-21154448.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-21154406.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-21154141.jpg

[SoLiD]

Also... Thanks to the "Hobogato Shore Shrimp Honey Spot" my tank has been filled with about 50-100 2cm sized shore shrimp. Everyone has been filling up for the past 3 days on shrimp including the Bangaii pair. Now that they have had their fill they have begun courtship again. The male should have a new batch of eggs in his mouth by tomorrow.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22004601.jpg

[Pennies2Cents]

Small note: Not saying that shore shrimp are the same as Peppermint Shrimp, but we lost a full batch of 21 babies due to the pep shrimp being in the same location as the babies. They will even crawl over the hatchery that we had them in. They attacked when the lights were out and by the morning we only had 2 left... :( those two eventually fell victim to the peps. Keep an eye on your babies. Hope this small info helps in being a successful breeder. :)

[SoLiD]

Thanks. Let me check on them now.... :-/

[Europhyllia]

stop posting shrimp pics. You're driving me crazy. lol

Interesting that there are losses so late in the game. Seems like they would be over the hump by now!

[Europhyllia]

oh and if you decide to keep feeding the shrimp I learned something interesting on the seahorse board:
since wild harvested shrimp can carry parasites like worms etc you can feed them medicated fish food (the anti-parasite, not the anti-bacterial) like this:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12788
before adding them to the tank. That way nothing is transmitted to the critters that will eat them!

[SoLiD]

stop posting shrimp pics. You're driving me crazy. lol

Interesting that there are losses so late in the game. Seems like they would be over the hump by now!

Losses came 2 and 3 days ago. :-/

The spot that Ace found & uses is better at the moment than the spot I usually use. I know they have closer hotels to that spot if you'd rather change hotels to be closer to the action. You wouldn't have your own private beach like at the Holiday Inn Emerald Beach Hotel, but you'd be on Padre Island which is just 5-10 minutes from all the island beaches. Hope it's not too late to change if that's what you want to do. ;-) LMK

[SoLiD]

oh and if you decide to keep feeding the shrimp I learned something interesting on the seahorse board:
since wild harvested shrimp can carry parasites like worms etc you can feed them medicated fish food (the anti-parasite, not the anti-bacterial) like this:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12788
before adding them to the tank. That way nothing is transmitted to the critters that will eat them!

"Not for use in aquariums with desirable, ornamental invertebrates" ???

Is it reef safe?

[Europhyllia]

My plan was to feed it to the shrimp a couple of days before adding them to the reef tank. Then feed out the shrimp after it would have already passed through their system - not add the pellets to the reef tank.
(since it would kill worms that probably would include feather dusters and bristle worms, etc. etc.)

I'll try it out first in case it kills the shrimp too. lol. I'll let you know how it goes ;)

[SoLiD]

Courtship of my Bangaii pair in the Moon Light LED's.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22034410.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22034355.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22034334.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22034323.jpg

[Europhyllia]

Wow. Look at those sun corals!!!

[SoLiD]

I feed quite a bit during the day, and a bit at night too... You're not the only one. ;-)

[roscozman]

Day 13-14 is a critical "hump" period. I would say we lost around 20% of our fry during this time for no apparent reason.

Definitely keep them separated from other shrimp and pretty much anything else for as long as possible. Like Eve said, the shrimp were aggressive and took out a whole batch.

[SoLiD]

Like clock work, after my Bangaii pair have had their fill with live shrimp, the courtship begins, then followed by pregnancy...

Courting in their cave.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22191257.jpg

Shortly After, The Male is Holding.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-03-22201848.jpg

[Europhyllia]

No update in a week. I hope that just means you are having too much fun at the beach and not that you lost the babies...?!

[SoLiD]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I was being a bit compulsive by posting tons of pictures so I slowed down. Lights just went off about 50 minutes ago. I still have all 10 Baby Bangii's from the Day 13 post. I will try to get some pictures tomorrow.

[SoLiD]

Day 26: All 10 remaining from the first successful batch are still here. They eat live brine shrimp enriched with spirulina algae multiple times a day because I love watching them eat.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-04-05015328-1.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-04-05015504.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-04-05015142-1.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-04-05015409-1.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/2011-04-05015312.jpg

[hobogato]

i am so jealous!