Revision of By-Laws and Terms of Use

[hobogato]

We, the Board of Directors, would like to announce that the By-Laws and Terms of use have been revised. There were many aspects of these documents that needed to be rewritten for clarity and relevance to the current goals of MAAST.

http://www.maast.org/content.php?9-By-Laws

http://www.maast.org/content.php?11-Terms-of-Use

[justahobby]

Bravo!

[roscozman]

Would it be possible to give a little "summary" of what was changed? It might be too difficult to go back and review the old by-lays and do a side by side comparison.

[Europhyllia]

Would it be possible to give a little "summary" of what was changed? It might be too difficult to go back and review the old by-lays and do a side by side comparison.
great idea. that would be nice :)

[hobogato]

we are working on that - should be posted here later today.

[hobogato]

ok, hopefully this will help.


Summary of Changes to MAAST’s By-Laws January 2011

Please refer to http://www.maast.org/content.php?9-By-Laws (http://www.maast.org/content.php?9-By-Laws) for details.

Very minor changes were made throughout the document in order to provide more specific clarification to phrases that were previously not very specific or unclear. Amendments and items considered more appropriate to the “Terms of Use” (code of conduct for participation on MAAST) were removed from the By-Laws and moved to that document.

Types of Membership -New types of membership were added, to include Couples Memberships, Family Memberships, and Honorary Memberships. The definitions of all different types of membership were clarified as well as their corresponding rights and annual cost for each membership.

Summary of Changes to MAAST’s Terms of Use January 2011

Please refer to http://www.maast.org/content.php?11-Terms-of-Use (http://www.maast.org/content.php?11-Terms-of-Use) for details.

Registration information – added the requirement of full name and location during registration process. Also provided clarification that only one active membership account is allowed per person.

Your conduct – added the rule that no member shall publicly post private messages.


Selling and trading – Several changes / clarifications were made regarding the privilege of selling and trading on our website. These include:

Definition of retailer – no longer defined by a percentage of posts in the For Sale forums, but rather defined as those with tax ID and/or can buy wholesale, those whose for sale posts are deemed excessive by the BOD and moderation team, those who buy goods with the intent to resale, and those who offer services in our forums. Retailers are not permitted to sell or advertise without a Sponsorship Agreement.
Selling and trading – Selling and trading in our forums is now limited as a privilege only for charter members. Posting of outside links to your sale item is prohibited. Items posted for sale must belong to the seller and be in the seller’s possession. Sponsors selling items which they would normally offer for sale as part of their business must post that offer in their sponsorship forum and not in the general for sale forum. Price must be included in the sale post and no auctions or raffles are allowed.


(thanks to kristy for typing this up)

[jrnannery]

"... those whose for sale posts are deemed excessive by the BOD and moderation team..."

Is there a rock-solid number to this, or is it just arbitrary? This could leave room for abuse by staff.



"Posting of outside links to your sale item is prohibited."

You mean it is prohibited to link to a page on, say, Marine Depot, so that the members can see a good description and picture of the item you have for sale? What prompted this?

Thanks
Richard

[Europhyllia]

Definition of retailer – no longer defined by a percentage of posts in the For Sale forums, but rather defined as those with tax ID and/or can buy wholesale
Clarification wanted: I have a tax ID, I can purchase things wholesale (although I haven't tried buying anything fishy wholesale ;) ). Am I a retailer in regards to your forum rules now? Or do you mean people who buy things wholesale to resell in the 'for sale forum'?
I would guess that there are quite a few MAAST members that have tax IDs for their own business...
We don't all have to become sponsors to sell a used Korallia or heater, right?

[hobogato]

Is there a rock-solid number to this, or is it just arbitrary? This could leave room for abuse by staff.

no, this will be on a case by case basis. unfortunately, it is impossible to make a hard/fast rule for this. the old 50% rule was impossible to moderate.


You mean it is prohibited to link to a page on, say, Marine Depot, so that the members can see a good description and picture of the item you have for sale? What prompted this?


no, informational links are allowed. this refers to posting a link to something you are selling on craigslist, ebay, or another reef site, etc.

[hobogato]

...Or do you mean people who buy things wholesale to resell in the 'for sale forum'?


this is exactly what this covers. however, it also covers someone who is selling things in the non-reef related sale/trade forum. basically, businesses can not sell items here that relate to their business without having a sponsorship agreement.

[jrnannery]

Thanks, Ace.

[SoLiD]

OK... explains why I can't post in the for sale forum now... the BOD has been trying to do a this for a long time... I guess it finally happened... oh well... Reef Central?

[Gseclipse02]

OK... explains why I can't post in the for sale forum now... the BOD has been trying to do a this for a long time... I guess it finally happened... oh well... Reef Central?

i would like to have another voting AGAIN to have it changed back to any one can sell in the F/S how would i put that into play ?

[Europhyllia]

I don't think it was voted on by the members JT

[Gseclipse02]

I don't think it was voted on by the members JT

i think it was voted on before thats when they did the post count deal/ 50 percent rule and it couldn't be kept up with so we back to what we voted against


i may be wrong not to sure tho

[Europhyllia]

Does $25 a year really seem that unreasonable? It always seemed like a good deal to me.

If I have something to sell I try MAAST first, Reef Central is only my second choice because packaging some of that stuff is a PITA. It's often worth selling it a little cheaper on MAAST just because of the extra trouble of shipping something. And then the unexpected UPS surprises where they charge your credit card twice as much because they feel your package is 13 inches wide not 12 inches and that puts it into some kind of horrendous overcharge category. No Thanks.

[SoLiD]

This is the reason I didn't like this rule when I was part of the BOD. It's why I voted to implement the 50 post rule versus an All Charter For Sale Only rule. Don't get me wrong I feel it's worth the price but I don't like beeing forced to fork over the money either. It alienates and upsets people just like I am. I think I've posted 3 or 4 times items for sale in that forum over the past 4 years. I have always tried to contribute with my knowledge versus the usually "Nice Tank" comments. I don't know how many newbies I've directed to this site over the past years... Until recently I haven't been on here much, but that really just set me off. I used to feel like there was always something nice to read here, but as of late it feels a bit stagnant to me. Now I know I'm not the only one who will leave because of it which will lead to this pool of die hard maastards to drying up more than it has already has... I feel like I will just go back to posting on Reef Central and just idle here from time to time. ... oh well... I will get off my soap box and go back to Reef Central...

[Big_Pun]

doesn't reef central have rules also on what can can't be done or said I've heard a lot of people complaining about that site also. no site is perfect or will make everyone happy if you think it's such a silly rule why let that stop you from helping others locally with your knowledge??? as for the rule I think it's as fair as can be for both sides, charters can sell and web members can reply and buy, isnt the whole point making some of the really nice equipment and coral available for newbies. if they are newbies the prob don't have colonies to frag up just yet... just my opinion and only mine

[SoLiD]

In my case... I bought 2 brand new small glass tanks that was about half the retail price. I posted them on "Craigs List" for about $10 - $20 more than I paid, but still below the retail price. I'm not looking to make a profit but I know there will be negotiators on CL trying to make lower offers. As for the same tanks I was trying to post here, I was going to offer them for what I paid for them. I still have the receipt and I could take them back but that would be a waste of a good price that I could have passed to a fellow Maast Member. David aka Darth Tater did this very thing with me some years back when I bought a 45 gallon tank from him. He passed the savings on to me and I thanked him for it as it was half the retail cost. I know that this is a special case but my point is still valid. It alienates "Web Members" on a site that is dwindling in over all members to begin with...

On a Side Note: The sad thing is I just started posting here again and I wanted to start my "New Tank Build" thread here on Maast and now I just don't feel like it... I guess I'm just upset thinking about it....

Let me know when it gets changed back to the way it was or something better and I'll come right back... Reef Central maybe cold and distant feeling, but at least they treat their "Web Members" the same as their "Paying Members" in the For Sale Forums. Their is very little division as they are equally rude to both Free and Paying Members.

[nrkolas]

Yeah I thought this site was freaking awesome for awhile until they started to make u pay to post fs threads kind of upset me..
What's the point of the charter member fs threads anymore then?
Just felt like putting some kind of input lol

[SoLiD]

Yeah I thought this site was freaking awesome for awhile until they started to make u pay to post fs threads kind of upset me..
What's the point of the charter member fs threads anymore then?
Just felt like putting some kind of input lol

Being a member used to cost you nothing as you would get your money back with most LFS offering a 5-10% discount for showing a Charter Membership Card... That's not the case anymore... at least where I live the LFS's don't offer any discount for being a Charter Member.

[hobogato]

the vote taken in the charter forum about two years ago (this is the only one i know of) actually supported the rule as it is now, but there was not a quorum. that is around the time the minimum post rule and 50% rule took effect. up until last year, those rules were used and it was a moderating nightmare. moderators spent all of their time counting posts and warning people for nonsense posts just to make those rules work. then, we tried opening it up to all and eliminating those rules. what happened was a flurry of activity only in the sale forums and very little activity elsewhere on the site. therefore, the by-laws and terms of use committee included the new policy in the revision of those documents this year. those documents were approved by the board as a means to return maast to its focus of education and sharing reefkeeping knowledge. it is always a fine line between offering perks to charter members for supporting maast vs. making the site useful to web members. as the discussion went in the committees, most web members are new to the hobby and will have a greater need to buy items than sell them.

now that you know the reasoning behind the rule change, here is my personal feeling:

this rule, just like any rule, will not work for every situation. there will always be those who like it, those who dont, and those who dont care. there is a procedure for charter members to propose a change and vote on it, and since the board members are here to serve maast and represent the charter members, i would encourage you to follow the procedure if you would like to change this or any other policy here.

here is the portion of the by-laws that addresses how to do that:



Section 3. Conducting Business By Forum Vote

Paragraph 1. Notice of an agenda item must be posted in the Directors Forum or appropriate Membership Forum by a member of the Board of Directors and remain open for discussion for:

a. A period of no less than 5 days for Membership or,
b. A period of no less than 2 days for Board of Directors

Paragraph 2. Upon closure by expiration of the agenda item discussion, a motion for either further discussion or a vote will be made.

Paragraph 3. Voting shall begin only after notice of the agenda item has been been provided a full discussion. The voting period shall remain open for:

a. A period of no less than 5 days for Membership
b. A period of no less than 1 day for Board of Directors

Paragraph 4. Quorum and Majority Vote results shall be determined upon expiration of the agenda item vote. Quorum and majority shall consist of:

a. Not less than one-fifth (1/5) of all the voting membership with a simple majority vote or,
b. Not less than two-thirds (2/3) of all the Board of Directors with a seventy-five percent majority of the yes/no votes.

Paragraph 5. Votes will be certified only upon expiration of the poll with the quorum count and final poll results being stated. Results and effective date of certified vote will be added to the meeting minutes at the next scheduled meeting.


you can request an agenda item be opened in the charter forum and a board member will begin the process.

[Europhyllia]

The discounts are up to the stores I believe. Cob's Corals which also ships very reasonably within Texas offers good discounts to Charter Members (I bought both custom acrylic work as well as corals from them and got discounts - didn't even have to ask for them). I also just recently bought something at Polly's here in town and at Aquarium Designs and both stores gave me discounts based on my MAAST membership as well.
And then there are the meetings and workshops which are free (other than material cost if it's a workshop) to all and FANTASTIC (IMO)

That being said people will haggle on any site. Especially ReefCentral! lol You could post something for free and for sure somebody would sent you a PM asking if you could give them $5 if they took it.

Sorry this rule upset you so much. I used to be a moderator on here for awhile and I can tell you we spent a lot of time trying to sort out what was a rule violation and what was okay all while trying to be very fair and not upset anybody (impossible of course). We're all volunteers here and do this on our own time. Based on that I am really for simplifying rules: not having to have the mods spend their time on counting posts seems like a good thing to me.

Speaking of upsetting people. Some of us on here have been working our butts off to offer information and entertainment to our members and keep it interesting. All that talk about how it used to be so great and now it's just so boring because all of the worthwhile, awesome and knowledgeable people are gone is not exactly 'uplifting' either.

[allan]

Here's my take and understanding of the rule (and I con't particularly care for it myself).

Simply put, MAAST is an educational site geared to a community effort to both understand and successfully maintain some form of marine tank system. The selling part is an incidental aspect of keeping a marine system that continually outgrows the tank whether this be in the form of fish or coral.

At some point it became apparent that more time was spent on the FS forums than anywhere else. This isn't congruent with the original intent of the mission statement, although it is understandable interest to review these threads for either needed equipment or that prized piece of coral.

Earlier on someone asked about the CM/FS vice the FS forum. The way I understand it, if I would like to sell my "Allan's Hybrid Cyano Strain" I could offer it up at an incentive to the CM/FS with the intent that I only want to provide this to CM. Perhaps at a free to reduced amount. Were I open to selling to the entire membership I could then offer it in the FS thread.

As it is the CM/FS thread doesn't get much traffic, but when it does the prices are very low to non-existant.

Sorry to jump in after you Ace, but I had a few moments and wanted to put something out there from a CM POV.

[CoryDude]

I'm sure this has been floated out there before, but what about adopting the same rules as RC? Isn't it something like you have to have 50 posts and 3 months of membership before you can use the fs section?

[hobogato]

we had the minimum post rule without the time clause and it was a barrage of "cool" and "nice tank" posts bumping old threads just to get to the post count. then, the rule was changed to a minimum number of 'meaningful' posts and that is where the moderating nightmare started.

[Big_Pun]

Yeah I thought this site was freaking awesome for awhile until they started to make u pay to post fs threads kind of upset me..
What's the point of the charter member fs threads anymore then?
Just felt like putting some kind of input lol


Let me know when it gets changed back to the way it was or something better and I'll come right back... Reef Central maybe cold and distant feeling, but at least they treat their "Web Members" the same as their "Paying Members" in the For Sale Forums. Their is very little division as they are equally rude to both Free and Paying Members.

So what you are saying is that you only want to contribute to MAAST on a "For Sale" level on not on a education level? if so thats what c-list is for. this site is to help others with our knowledge of this great hobby so people can be successful not just sell stuff. I attribute my success to this site, without all the knowledge from some of the "old salties" helping me deal with problems i would have been out of this hobby a long time ago, when anyone has problems, people are quick to lend a hand or find a solution. $25 is a minor charge to for that help and to support this site and have a voice and vote on to what goes on, again if you just want to use this site soley to sell your stuff use c-list.

[Europhyllia]

I think you misunderstood, Chris. I believe David feels that he does have a lot of knowledge to contribute but is so turned off by the fact that only charter members can post sale ads that he would then rather not contribute or participate in the educational stuff either

[Big_Pun]

I think you misunderstood, Chris. I believe David feels that he does have a lot of knowledge to contribute but is so turned off by the fact that only charter members can post sale ads that he would then rather not contribute or participate in the educational stuff either

i understood but the main complaints stem from not being able to sell as a web member. we dont keep web members from passing along knowledge, if you really enjoy this hobby, you should want to help others

[hobogato]

that is a good point chris. it is still free to be a web member, which gives access to most of the site and meetings. charter members just have added perks, one being the ability to sell things here.

btw, here are the results from the charter vote on July 13, 2009


View Poll Results: Do we allow web members to sale?


Voters 60. This poll is closed

Yes allow them to sell _____________28_______ 46.67%
No do not allow them to sell ________32_______ 53.33%

[Bill S]

Just so folk know... David, aka Solid, is a former Board Member.

David etal: I think most of us have a problem with the rule. HOWEVER, as a former Board Member, I can tell you that probably70+% of the Moderator and BOD time they spent on MAAST was taken up with the whole "For Sale" issue.

Part of it was that there are folks out there that supplement their living by selling used stuff. This lead to complaints from Sponsors, who pay to sell stuff. So, then the mods had to figure out who was/was not a sponsor/should be a sponsor / etc. It was a NIGHTMARE. If all of the MAAST "members" - both web and charter - obeyed the rules and didn't try and get around them or skirt them, it wouldn't be an issue. The gamesmanship was just insane.

So, because of a few folks abusing the "system", it had to be changed. Stupid? Yes. But that's why.

David, I'd welcome your continued presence here.

[Gseclipse02]

J This lead to complaints from Sponsors, who pay to sell stuff. So, then the mods had to figure out who was/was not a sponsor/should be a sponsor / etc. It was a NIGHTMARE. If all of the MAAST "members" - both web and charter - obeyed the rules and didn't try and get around them or skirt them, it wouldn't be an issue. The gamesmanship was just insane.

.


sponsors .... isnt maast here for members ?

for the people who dont know david the first time i met him was at the clams direct meeting were he was nice enough to bring mangroves to the meeting for everyone and was very helpful

[Gseclipse02]

that is a good point chris. it is still free to be a web member, which gives access to most of the site and meetings. charter members just have added perks, one being the ability to sell things here.

btw, here are the results from the charter vote on July 13, 2009


whoops sorry for posting incorrect info.

[Gseclipse02]

ill say i refer about 4-5 people a week 90% of the time it is to sell something just because they want the store to buy it but were not going to sell there used stuff so maast and CL are what we generally refer them to ....

now that they cant sell the items on maast unless they pay so they basically give up on the site

yes more people are paying there dues but the newer members aren't going to give maast a chance just because they have to pay

[hobogato]

...for the people who dont know david the first time i met him was at the clams direct meeting were he was nice enough to bring mangroves to the meeting for everyone and was very helpful

i am certainly not trying to question david - he is definitely and asset to maast and i would hate to see him leave.

[Bill S]

sponsors .... isnt maast here for members ?

Yes. But having sponsors IS in MAAST membership's best interest (discounts, donations, raffles, meeting hosting, etc.). It also doesn't keep sponsors from complaining - legitimately, BTW.

[Kristy]

Hey David, it's been really nice to see you contributing around here again. Love your banggai babies thread. I hated to read that you are thinking about disappearing again over this.

I guess your situation is pretty unique in that you live in an area where you cannot benefit as often / as easily from as many of the perks of charter membership. Apparently Corpus Christi stores are no longer offering member discounts (although there are SA and Austin stores that do when you are up for a drive, as well as online retailers like Mr. Cob's Corals that you could still use), you only have a couple of the meetings in Corpus Christi for you to conveniently attend a year (but could of course attend those as a web member and enjoy the free food, speaker, door prizes, etc.) and you actually wanted to sell a couple things here without making any profit at all... for most people this is not the case. Surely from your time here you can remember how much we have struggled to come up with a reasonable way to address this that isn't a moderating nightmare. And of course no matter what we do, we can't make everyone happy all the time.

[g-ray]

Personally I have been away for awhile and I can see how it may turn new people off by having this rule because when you first log in all you think is this site is trying to take 25 bucks from me and what is there to gain? " Lets just go to RC" Truth be told there is alot to gain however it has taken time to realize the benefits. David Solid has helped me on a number of occasions in the past as we both served on the board together and I agree there is a valid point he is pointing out. My suggestion is we have a limited amt of time the member has to be active and signed up along with a number of post rules in just General reef discussion. Thus to limit the amt of non meaningful posts and it will be easier to moderate. The benefit to Charter members will be that they get discounts and they get to buy cheap stuff from web members every body stays we are all happy new people come and maybe sell and and maybe stay if not we got some thing cheap. The ones that do stay will realize the benefit and pay a charter. Thats just my 2 cents I know I have not contributed much to the community in the past year and half due to personal reasons but I feel I have done my best to help people in posts even while I didnt have a tank. I just want to see more people come and enjoy the site as I have in the past and learn and grow so they can help new people.

[tebstan]

I can understand both sides of this issue. The main reason I support the rule, is that I'm not concerned about selling stuff; I'm concerned about buying stuff.

If I'm going to buy something used from a stranger, I'm taking a risk. If I'm buying something from an active MAAST charter member, I feel like it's less of a risk. Even if we've never met and are planning to meet in an empty dark parking lot, I feel a little better about meeting a charter member. A web member who signs up with the sole intent of selling something isn't someone I'm likely to feel comfortable buying from.

We all feel better buying from a LFS with a friendly staff who remembers you and greets you when you walk in. That's what buying from a charter member with a post history is like. Buying from a newly signed up web member is like shopping at the flea market. There's no history, and no trust.

[Europhyllia]

David brought some great info in one of my threads as well and I appreciate it.

I'd love for him to stay.


now that they cant sell the items on maast unless they pay so they basically give up on the site This may sound harsh but if they don't want to take advantage of the huge amount of entertainment and info they can get from MAAST for absolutely free, no dinero, nothing, zilch and just want to use it to sell their stuff then they really are on the wrong site. Craiglist will definitely fit their needs better I think

[Europhyllia]

We all feel better buying from a LFS with a friendly staff who remembers you and greets you when you walk in. That's what buying from a charter member with a post history is like. Buying from a newly signed up web member is like shopping at the flea market. There's no history, and no trust.

really good point. :)

[Mr Cob]

Selling and trading – Selling and trading in our forums is now limited as a privilege only for charter members. Posting of outside links to your sale item is prohibited. Items posted for sale must belong to the seller and be in the seller’s possession. Sponsors selling items which they would normally offer for sale as part of their business must post that offer in their sponsorship forum and not in the general for sale forum. Price must be included in the sale post and no auctions or raffles are allowed.
[/LIST]
(thanks to kristy for typing this up)
[/INDENT]

First, just want to say thanks everyone for taking so much time to make some amendments. As a previous Board member I know there weren't many volunteers to get the ball rolling and I think the new BOD has done a great job with taking some initiative and "follow through".

I will make it known, as a continued charter member and sponsor I support an open forum. Shoot, the more frags our customers can sell the more their spouses will let them shop with us... lol! I also think the open for sale forum drives a ton of traffic to the site which in turn converts to new members that eventually charter up because they want to help support the club and not because they have to in order to sell something. But...there are many ways of looking at it and that's just one.

With that said, I support the current changes as I know the BOD and Mods take a ton of time discussing issues and looking over all angles. So, thanks for all of your dedicated, non paid, non compensated time from your families and responsibilities in trying to make the best decision that works for the club as a whole.

Anyways...can a BOD member clarify the pink above? Several sponsors, us included do auctions. Perhaps this rule is in reference to "live auction threads" and does not apply to us linking to our auction sites from our sponsor forums...?

Thanks.

[hobogato]

that rule applies only to items listed in the for sale section of our site. it has no bearing on how sponsors conduct business.

[Mr Cob]

got it...thanks for the clarification.

[SoLiD]

i understood but the main complaints stem from not being able to sell as a web member. we dont keep web members from passing along knowledge, if you really enjoy this hobby, you should want to help others

And I will always pass around my (small) knowledge in the effort to help someone be successful in this hobby... But it will be in person or where ever I feel like chiming in.... and at the moment I don't feel up to doing that here...

[SoLiD]

sponsors .... isnt maast here for members ?

for the people who dont know david the first time i met him was at the clams direct meeting were he was nice enough to bring mangroves to the meeting for everyone and was very helpful

And Drive up from Corpus Christi offering free stuff that took time and effort to collect and accimate in my refugium. Then weed out the bad ones, bag up the good ones eqaully. There must have been 20 or so bags with 15 black mangroves per bag. They all had roots and were accimated and ready to plant... An All Free of Charge, of course.

Before acclimation:
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/SoLiDST33L/BlackMangroveSeedPods.jpg

[cbianco]

And I will always pass around my (small) knowledge in the effort to help someone be successful in this hobby... But it will be in person or where ever I feel like chiming in.... and at the moment I don't feel up to doing that here...

This is very unfortunate to hear. I am sorry that you are taking this change to the MAAST forums so hard.

...

There are 4 answers to the "for sale" problem...

1. Open the forum up for ALL members to sell however, whatever and when ever they want.

-If this were to happen, sponsors would see MAAST as a marine CL. We need sponsor money to keep this site afloat, period. Also, we are an educational NPO not a classified website.

2. Limit the for sale forums somehow.

-This has been done: post limits, time limits, for sale posting percentages. Limiting the for sale forums is a moderating nightmare and not feasible in the long term. I am speaking from experience here.

3. Make selling a privilege.

-This makes the most sense; it supports our sponsors, makes moderating easier and keeps the website educationally focused.

4. Get rid of the for sale forums altogether.

-Nobody would be happy but it would certainly be easier to moderate MAAST.

Here's what it boils down to, we can't win them all.

Not everyone will be happy with WHATEVER decision MAAST makes. MAAST chose the option and seemed to make the most sense, was easy to moderate and was fair to our sponsors.

Christopher :)

[alton]

Everybody knows how I feel about more government and this limiting only charter members to sell. Now saying that I think our BOD does a great job and I will support what ever they decide even though I don't agree with it. On the item of joining RC and selling your goods I have been member since 2005 and just recently was able to buy and sell because even though I go to the site a bunch and just don't post that much. And I hate seeing a bunch of mini post to get enough to sell. For those on the fence here are two things I automatically do every year is pay my $25 for MAAST and buy my subscription of CORAL MAGAZINE.
Now a way to fix this is grandfather everyone who has been a web member for one year in good standing and has contributed to the site?

[jroescher]

*Deleted*

David, my comment wasn't directed to you. Sorry. Didn't mean to imply that you don't contribute.

I deleted it, because I don't want to be the one to make a thread go South.

[SoLiD]

It amazes me how many people feel that since they've entered their name and email address on the MAAST sign-up page, they're ENTITLED to everything that that other members and sponsors are paying for.

John, What are you talking about sir??? You can't just read one post back and expect to get the whole gist of this entire thread. Oh I forgot, You are right, since February 1, 2004, when you signed up the Maast; The "For Sale" forum was ONLY for the CHARTER MEMBERS... No wait, I'm not WRONG. The Maast "For Sale" has been FREE to Web and Both Charter members alike since THE BEGINNING OF MAAST. It wasn't until LAST MONTH that it is required you be a Charter Member to have the "Privilege" to post there. So Again... What Are You Talking About??? Did I Miss Something??? Please, don't insult my intelligence with such a blind response. Because your comment is without merit and unfactual.

[CoryDude]

Ugh, after seeing post #49, I knew this was going to turn ugly. Hopefully calmer heads will prevail.

Personally, I'd rather see the Maast BOD take a more laissez faire approach to the for-sale section. But, the directors have to walk a fine line between the private and commercial sides to maast. So, in the end, someone isn't going to be happy.

[SoLiD]

The granfathered solution Alton came up with is about the only solution that makes sense to me. But even then someone will be upset over that too. Let me make it clear, I'm not saying that I will never "Charter" up again, I'm saying that I don't like being FORCED in to buying something that was free to me just a couple of weeks ago.

Example: I just bought my daughter a new smart phone. Now as of January 1, 2011 there is a $10 increase for any one that has smart phones with regaurdless of the 4G abilities. Being a new contract I accepted it because it was now the norm, but if Sprint would have started charging me the $10 hike without an informing me, just because they saw a need to, of course I would be upset.

Imagine if you had to start paying to watch Spurs palyoff games just because the network felt like it. They have always been free. Well if you don't like it then buy a ticket, isn't gonna fly whether you love the Spurs or not. They'd in turn lose people who started out somewhat interested, that somewhere down the line become die hard fans...

It's late and I'm rambling... good night...

[FireWater]

David, I have refrained from making any comment because frankly I do not know what else can be said. I can understand your point of view and respect that.

We as the BOD and a By-law Committee went back and forth on the best approach that would satisfy the problems we were having. We in no way preceded with the thought of forcing people away. Moderating the FS forums were a nightmare, we received several complaints from members and sponsors alike, and were trying to find a solution that would work best for everyone involved. Things change, I am sure you know that, sometimes for the better. There are several other things that have changed over a period of time and some of those changes were well received while others were not. Things are fluid in the fact that they can and will change.

While I am not trying to justify any actions asking for your approval I merely ask that you continue to look at both sides of the debate. I know that I can reiterate what others have said and sincerely hope that you will continue to offer any advice and continue to contribute as you have in the past.

[Bill S]

palyoff

I bet it would work on aptasia too!

David, I agree with you on this. HOWEVER, I UNDERSTAND why the BOD did what they did.

[SoLiD]

palyoff lol

My point is that there should have been a vote. I remember the vote in the previous post by Ace, and We the BOD's at that time, disregarded that vote for a better solution. If there was a vote now I'd Charter up just to vote against it.

[SoLiD]

What happens now?

[Texreefer]

What happens now?

this thread dies a long overdue death:bigsmile:

thank you ,,, Good night!:)

[g-ray]

TRUE....

[tony]

So what you are saying is that you only want to contribute to MAAST on a "For Sale" level on not on a education level? if so thats what c-list is for. this site is to help others with our knowledge of this great hobby so people can be successful not just sell stuff. I attribute my success to this site, without all the knowledge from some of the "old salties" helping me deal with problems i would have been out of this hobby a long time ago, when anyone has problems, people are quick to lend a hand or find a solution. $25 is a minor charge to for that help and to support this site and have a voice and vote on to what goes on, again if you just want to use this site soley to sell your stuff use c-list.


i could not agree more

[SoLiD]

this thread dies a long overdue death:bigsmile:

thank you ,,, Good night!:)

Yeah I figured...

[bigsby]

Just for the sake of MAAST, this thread shouldn't die. I know I have stopped visiting this site because of the total die off in posts. I do admit 70+% of my time in MAAST is in the For Sale section, but that is for good reason. That is the fun and enjoyment of the hobby and what brings me here. I understand that this site has a monetary need to keep itself up and running, but I feel that when you push out 90% of the people from posting for sale items you are going to keep a majority of the people who feel the site deserves their annual $25 contribution. A this time I refuse to pay for this site simply because of the lack of quality content since the top of the year. Just my opinion...Not trying to throw stones

[justahobby]

This thread is a charter member issue and is being discussed by charter members. Thread is closed