new to saltwater

[butwa20]

This is my first saltwater tank setup i have a 46g tall acrylic tank. i cloned a tank from the local pet store. looking for any tips i want to do a reef here in the very near future i know i have to wait about a month befor i can do this but i wanted to know if there is anything i can do now to get ready for it besides the live rock.

[allan]

What kind of lights do you have? This will be an important part of your setup for a reef.

How long has your tank been running? A month is really a short time, and highly inaccurate as a bench mark. What you need to look for is when your tank cycles. Bottom line is you definitely don't want to consider adding livestock until your nitrates have begun to rise. Until that point your ammonia will have risen and fallen, followed by a nitrite rise and fall.

Are you running a sump?

Here is the most important part; Welcome to MAAST! the folks up in here will provide you with all the knowledge you need to become an expert.

[ErikH]

Take it slow! Of course, Welcome to MAAST.

What are the dimensions of your tank? Certain depths require more intense lighting for a reef. Most of use use MH, a select few have made the swap for LEDs.

How much rock do you have? How deep is your sandbed? Have you purchased a protein skimmer? How deep are your pockets? LOL :)

[Scream311]

Welcome

And my best tip is to start browsing all the Thread sections. There's many many discussion forums that will help with your questions

Or just post your own thread on a detailed description of your issues

[butwa20]

Wow everyone was so quick to post thanks most forums I find take days. well my tank is 20" deep 36" wide and 15" front to back. I just purchased a light set up it has not arrived yet it is 36" T5 Quad Deluxe 156W Marine Version with blue moon led it comes with 2x 10000k and 2x Actinic Blue i was told this was a good set up but as i am new i still dont know everything. I paid $94 new for the light and bulbs. I have 15lbs live rock and 20lbs base i plan on getting more here like next week i just wanted a base amount to get started and i am shopping around the local pet stores for the cheapest prices on the live rock cheapest i found so far is $5. I started up my tank on Tuesday the local pet store i went to said if i used 50% water from there tanks and some of there gravel from established tanks and dirty filter pad i could have fish the next day because i was cloning a tank. They told me to wait a month then i could get corals. Now the other pet store told me to wait a week to get fish and corals in a month. I am not using a sump at this time i have a canister filter Fluval 305 it pumps 185gph. I dont have a protein skimmer yet i had a couple of questions about those....... Do i have to have a sump to run it or do i have to have another pump for it??? Also i just bought 2x EX250 DX Powerhead + Internal Filter 250gph flow is this to much for the size of my tank? Thanks for the warm welcome.

[Mike]

Welcome to MAAST, we have a good group of people on here. In my opinion, you can never have too much filtration. We run a canister on our 20g that is rated for 100g.

[ErikH]

go with about 60lbs of rock, and get yourself a sump! Is that tank drilled? If it isn't, you should put your sand and LR in a tub, drain it, and have it drilled.... It would be easier than trying to hang everything over the back of the tank, and it would look cleaner. You would need someone to build you an acrylic box that the water can overflow into. Google "Calfo Overflow"..... Next item to purchase would be a cleanup crew, I use blue leg hermits and nassarius snails. Occasionally I will purchase a turbo snail. I would wait much longer than a month.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT LEADS TO THE MOST FAILURES IN THIS HOBBY IS PEOPLE DO NOT WAIT.

If your sand is new, and your rock is new, so is your tank.... No matter what anyone tells you!
The only way you can do a 0 cycle setup is to use fresh dry sand and live rock that has come from a heavily stocked mature system. The bacteria capable of handling fish waste would be established due to the healthy mature rock. Do not try to rush it, you will fail in doing so and end up spending money for no good reason. Sure using some sand out of a mature tank and some rock would help to introduce the bacteria to your system, but in no way will it solve the issue of having to wait. Patience is the key to this hobby; it's not just a virtue.

Also, you don't use gravel in saltwater tanks. Gravel is too large, and a gravel bed will become full of fish poop thus increasing your nitrates steadily over time. Sandbeds should be 1" or less, or over 4" to avoid having a nitrate issue stemming from build up.

There are hang on back skimmers, the bigger the better, which is why I suggested a sump. Most of us use them, or find alternate means of skimming.

[butwa20]

where would i drill the holes at. and the sand i bought was the one that has all the bacteria in it and i got some sand from a tank that had been established for quite some time. how big of a sump would i need for 46g tank?

[ErikH]

You would need a hole drilled in a top corner, then attach a 3 sided box. The box would have a bottom, a front side, and a left or right side (depending on what corner you put it in) and the two other sides would be the back and side glass of the aquarium. The top would be open of course so the water could flow over it, into the box, and out the bulkhead for which you will have drilled a hole.

Any sand that has been stirred to that degree (moving from one tank to another) will cause a tank to cycle. You should get a basic test kit, or take your water once a week to a LFS to have them test it for you. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate should all register at 0, before you even think of adding a fish. We always recommend waiting longer as there are a bunch of small critters (look like tiny shrimp) that will start to proliferate in your untouched system. These little buggers will help eat small bits of detritus (poop) etc, and some fish eat them; the circle of life.

First live things you should buy are hermits and snails, you will go through a diatomatic (BROWN) algae bloom here soon, and they will help to curb that, but only a little bit.

Some locals from CC should chime in here, and you could probably get some cheatomorpha (algae that is green) that is full of small microfauna. Microfauna will increase and enhance your biodiversity.

How big of a sump? As big as you can cram under your stand. I cut a brace (NOT RECOMMENDED) to fit two 40g breeders under my tank.....

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x315/erikharrison/Fish/200g%20Oceanic/Dual%2040g%20Breeders%20All%20Lit%20Up/DSC_0994.jpg


Keep posting here, and as long as you follow our recommendations, you should do well. :)

[ErikH]

lol, a lot has changed since I took this picture! My skimmer is in the sump (on the bottom left) it's the big white looking (white from air bubbles) thing with a cup full of poop on top of it.

[butwa20]

now what is the light on the tank in the stand for and u dont need a filter media on a saltwater tank?

[butwa20]

i guess at this point i am a little confused i have seen some diy sumps and your looks very different. if i do a basic sump set up since this is my first tank what is the best thing to use and should i just buy one or are home made ones the best in saving money? also what is the box that you are talking about is it something i purchase or is it something i would make? is the canister filer i am use not good enough for salt water or is it just not recomended because of all the hoses and the hanging of the protine skimmer and other things off the back of the tank?

[ErikH]

The light on the other 40g breeder underneath is my frag tank. That tank is completely separate from my 200. My other 40g (sump) has no baffles. I like not having baffles because I like to keep the water level pretty high. It's also a no brainer.

The acrylic box would need to be built, or you could use a 90 degree elbow coming straight off your bulkhead. The open side would face upward and the water could just flow down it that way too. The acrylic just looks cleaner.

A good HOB skimmer is easy to find, but for the price, you are better off with a sump and skimmer. Deltec makes a nice HOB, and so Does Aqua-C (Remora) but other than those are not really recommended too often.

Canister filters tend to become a PITA to keep up with. OH, and make sure to leave space under your stand for a top off reservoir. Salt doesn't evaporate, so daily you will be adding freshwater to keep the salinity where it needs to be. That can be automated, and should be automated to keep you from going crazy. There are many top off units available, most often recommended is the Tunze Osmolator.

[butwa20]

so how do i stop the water from over flowing my sump tank ? i know i have a lot of questions i just want to get it right

[ErikH]

Your return pump will pump the water from the sump to the tank. With the return pump off, you would fill your sump to the desired water height. The desired height should depend on the optimal water height for your skimmer, usually 7-9"... On a tank your size with a 1 1/2" bulkhead, you should use something that pumps about 500gph, ie a Mag5 or the Sicce equivalent. After you get that water level right, turn your pumps on and make sure that your skimmer's water level is within the limits of where it needs to be.

As far as powerheads, one or 2 Koralia 4s (cheap and awesome) which push 1200 gph each would be ideal. Or you could get yourself some Vortechs. I have 3 MP40s in my 200. You would be suprised at how much flow is important. It keeps food from settling, which means your fish are more likely to eat it. It also keeps detritus from settling, another big plus. Also, hard corals require high light, high flow, and pristine water. Three reasons why you should purchase correctly the first time as they tend to be big ticket items.

[butwa20]

so are the lights i got good to use? 36" T5 Quad Deluxe 156W Marine Version with blue moon led it comes with 2x 10000k and 2x Actinic Blue

[ErikH]

It will be a good starter light, you'll have to see how well it works for corals. My 40g has 6x39w T5 with individual reflectors.

[Teeb]

Three reasons why you should purchase correctly the first time..

This really can't be stressed enough. I started with cheaper stuff and ended up spending tons more money than I needed to. That doesn't mean you need the best of the best, but don't go bottom barrel either. Definitely drill the tank, it'll give you tons more options for filtration. Look into Octopus skimmers, they're decently priced and do a great job. SWC's are reasonable as well. Your light will be good for softies, zoas, maybe some LPS, but if you want to get into anything else, you'll need to step up to LED, MH, or a higher end T5 fixture with SLR's. 20" is a decent amount of water to penetrate. Most important if you don't know, just ask, no matter how stupid the question seems, we were all there at one point in time.

[jrnannery]

Greetings, and welcome to MAAST. By the way, the January MAAST meeting is tomorrow. Please look it up, and I would say try to stop by.


I would wait much longer than a month. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT LEADS TO THE MOST FAILURES IN THIS HOBBY IS PEOPLE DO NOT WAIT.If your sand is new, and your rock is new, so is your tank.... No matter what anyone tells you!

One piece of advice I would give you is to try NOT to reinvent the wheel. A lot of people have gone through a lot of heartbreak and disappointment to get to the point where they can offer the guidance and the assistance that they can...and you will not stop learning.

Another helpful tidbit would be to tend to put more trust in the people who are not trying to take your money when it comes to advise. Local Fish Stores (LFS) can be a good source of info, but understand, bottom line, they have a bottom line to worry about.

Oh, and lastly, do as much research on your own as possible. There are several books available that I think most every one of us has that will help you enormously. Your success in this hobby isn't guaranteed, but with a little assistance, you stand a much better chance than most who started without it.

Yeah, ok...this is the last comment. You don't have to go all out to start with. Go slowly, learn about the equipment, what it does and why, and what livestock will do best with what you have. It's better to plan sensible upgrades over time than to buy something because it is cool (think Moorish Idol), then struggle and ultimately fail to provide adequate habitat, despite unloading large amounts of real money.

There is so much to it, but you have to get your feet wet. No pun intended.

[butwa20]

I thank all of u for your advice and trust me I am listening. I just got finished building my sump for my tank I just don't know now how I am going to drill this hole in the side of my tank is there anyone in corpus that is willing to help me I really don't want drain my entire tank if I don't need to can I drain like half of my tank to do it, and save the water in say a big rubbermade container for the short while until the hole is drilled? I would appricate it if someone would be willing to help me cut this hole I really don't wanna mess up my tank I really have no clue where to put the hole even.

[butwa20]

just built my first sump thanks for everyones help it works great but now i need to figure out how to quite it down it is creating a vortex any ideas

[ErikH]

What do you mean? Does it sound like a toilet?

[butwa20]

yes lol and it makes a vortex like u would see in a bath tube while draining

[ErikH]

In the overflow box? You need to tinker with it, but I used to fold up some airline and kinda stick it into the PVC tube that drains into the sump, within the overflow box. Anything to break up the swirl, really...

[ErikH]

Oh and make sure to watch it so it doesn't overflow your tank.

[butwa20]

i dont have an over flow box just a bulkhead in to my tank

[ErikH]

So your bulkhead is your overflow? Post a pic?!?