60 Gallon Reidi Cube- gazillions more! (new pic and vid)

[Europhyllia]

The Seahorses will soon be moving to their new Cube. Here's the basics: 60 gallon Starphire cube (hope I don't notice the difference too much. I just had to get LED for my big reef after falling in love with the shimmer on the seahorse tank. definitely can't afford to ditch the 215 for a starphire one...) drilled with a corner overflow txg8xgp-made Cree LED fixture with WW,NW & RB XP LEDs (housing made by txav8r) Custom Sump made by Wet Acrylic ASM G1-X skimmer UV-sterilizer Sicce Syncra return pump No powerheads! Circulation will be provided by the return pump and loc-line spray bar assemblies Stand is the standard Marineland Monterey in Red Oak I would like to try txmike's suggestion of theater gel sheets for an easy peasy translucent back drop. Got to be light colored or else the seahorses turn black. That's it for now. :) Happy New Year little seahorses

[jrsatx20]

thats it for now u forgot the pics

[Scream311]

Yea I 2nd that Ruben... where's the Pics Karin ! ?

[BSJF]

It's not even in the house and you want pics? Patience grasshopper!

[Europhyllia]

nothing to see here ...move along lol

got to cut holes in the stand first

[allan]

Yeah Lorraine is right, we need to be patient... Speaking of which, Karin where are the pics????

:)

[BSJF]

Forget the tank pics (though that tank sounds awesome), I want seahorses.

[Jarob]

PICS?!

[Kristy]

Merry Christmas, enjoy your new seahorses... Happy New Year, welcome to your new super home, ponies! This has got to be the quickest upgrade ever, about 30 days to double your tank volume!

My phone must not be working because I can't seem to find any pics either?!?

[allan]

Me either Kristy, but maybe it's just our phones.

... Or perhaps Karin is ignoring our ardent pleas for a pictorial representation of her newly acquired watery horse stables. My eyes hurt for lack of stimulation! :)

[Europhyllia]

The tank is still being tweaked and drilled. The standard version of it has a center overflow with icky pipes sticking out the back. Who would want that?!
I don't want ugly stuff hanging off my pretty tank. That's my whole point in having a drilled tank. Getting all the plumbing out of sight.

So as far as the tank goes all I have to show for right now is the paper I signed off on in regards to how I want it drilled

I already posted my super awesome LED seahorse tank fixture here:
http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?63953-Thanks-Jack!-%29-%28for-this-awesome-LED-lamp-cover%29

Jack is glueing my sump together right now (right, Jack? ;) )

And the stand is just the standard Marineland Monterey Red Oak stand.

Told you ... nothing to look at... yet :)

[Europhyllia]

Jack finished my sump for the cube :)
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii234/joat_mon_3/a0e88127.jpg

[BSJF]

Very nice.

[hobogato]

great job jack!

[Gseclipse02]

why didnt you get a RR tank ??? i think it worth the extra money to keep the warrenty valid

[Europhyllia]

Who says I didn't?
It's still being made. Specially for me by the manufacturer.

I just didn't like the way they do their standard model which would have a center overflow, drilled in the back with pipes sticking out the back.
The tank will go in a corner and it will look much better if it's flush against the wall so they are making my 60 gallon cube exactly like they normally do their 70 gallon cube:
with a corner overflow and drilled on the bottom.

Takes a little longer than off-the-shelf but I am getting it just like I want it. :) It will be worth it I think

[Gseclipse02]

Who says I didn't?
It's still being made. Specially for me by the manufacturer.

I just didn't like the way they do their standard model which would have a center overflow, drilled in the back with pipes sticking out the back.
The tank will go in a corner and it will look much better if it's flush against the wall so they are making my 60 gallon cube exactly like they normally do their 70 gallon cube:
with a corner overflow and drilled on the bottom.

Takes a little longer than off-the-shelf but I am getting it just like I want it. :) It will be worth it I think


oooohhhh aahhhh good calll !

[justahobby]

Nice sump!

[txav8r]

This is going to be yet another stellar Eurphyllia build thread! I love how you put so much thought and planning into your builds.

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. I am just glad it's working out so well so far with me having a spare 29, BSJF loaning me the stand after teh original hexagon started leaking and the new cube arriving soon. I think it will be just perfect for my ponies. :)
I briefly considered adding some other fish but after the Mollie experiment I think the seahorses will be happiest in a seahorse only tank.

[justahobby]

*ahem* Pipefish *cough*

[Europhyllia]

almost exclusively wildcaught :(

[justahobby]

Oh, Sad news.

[rockmp]

Who is making your tank? I have a 24"x24"x24" marineland cube. Thinking about getting a new rimless one. What are the dimensions of your sump?

[txav8r]

Who is making your tank? I have a 24"x24"x24" marineland cube. Thinking about getting a new rimless one. What are the dimensions of your sump?


The sump is 15x15x22"

[Europhyllia]

It's a 24x24x24 Marineland Cube too :)

[Europhyllia]

I love how all of my equipment fits so perfectly in my new custom sump! It's awesome.
I also just picked up the gel sheets from Texas Scenic for the background. So glad I went to get them rather than order online. I was able to pick the perfect colors and diffuser sheets :)

[rockmp]

[QUOTE=Europhyllia;806824]I love how all of my equipment fits so perfectly in my new custom sump! It's awesome.
QUOTE]

Pics?

[Europhyllia]

Well the day has finally come.
It's GORGEOUS!
I am really excited for my ponies. It definitely will be a move up. :)

Got a couple of dedicated GFCI circuits just for the tanks:
http://www.dominopads.com/GFCI.jpg

Picked up some Gel Sheets and Diffuser sheets from Texas Scenic (Thanks txmike -I think they will be perfect!)
http://www.dominopads.com/gelsheets.jpg

Suction on white LED sticks (I know that's kind of cheap/cheesy but works quite well and it doesn't always have to be complicated and expensive)
http://www.dominopads.com/ledshadow.jpg

Lit up with nothing else in it (spots on the overflow are just reflections from the other tank - ignore)
http://www.dominopads.com/shshadow.jpg

And my perfect Wet Acrylic sump that fits into the stand perfectly and holds my ginromous ASM skimmer just fine :)
http://www.dominopads.com/sumpsh.jpg

[justahobby]

Woohoo! The shadow....non-box? turned out great.

[Jarob]

Looks awesome!!! I might have to try that...

[Europhyllia]

Plumbing is done. Sand is in. Spray bars are installed.
Water tomorrow... wish me luck!

[ErikH]

What kind of light is that for your backlight? It looks really good with the background! :) where and what are those sheets?! Link?

[Europhyllia]

the sheets are used in theater lighting. I bought them at Texas Scenic in San Antonio
http://texasscenic.com/colormedia.htm
They are $6.25 a sheet and I used two for each side because in addition to the color sheet I also got a diffuser sheet to make it translucent rather than transparent.
The lights are just LED aquarium lights from Hong Kong.
Great suction cups though for cheap lights! I figured I might have to tape them but they stick really well!
The gel sheets are just fastened on top with double sides tape

Couldn't wait for tomorrow so the tank is 2/3 full and I am making more water :D

[ErikH]

Excitingggggg! Try not to stay up too late! :D

[Europhyllia]

water is in it. Everything's working. No leaks so far.

There will be no powerheads in the tank to keep the seahorses safe but plenty of loc-line spray bar

http://www.dominopads.com/spraybarsh.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/shtank218.jpg

I am pleased with the results including the cheapo shadow-no-box solution. Now on to the interior design! :D

[ErikH]

Gel against the glass then diffuser? I would like to do this on mine, it looks really nice.

[txmike]

looking good what is the color on the gels you used ??

[Europhyllia]

I purchased two different ones. I think Caribbean and Island Blue. In the end I went with the Island Blue because it was lighter and lighter backgrounds are more likely to keep the seahorses yellow.
Erik, yes, gel against the glass and diffuser behind it. If you do it the other way around it looks too milky when the backlight is off.

[Europhyllia]

The splash bar on top seemed a little splashy so I changed the design of my mangrove suspension system up a bit.
If I had known I was going to have such wide rails at the side I might have gotten the sticks across the top in a thinner material and not as wide - but I wanted to make sure it doesn't droop over time.

Got some lovely tools made by a company I never heard of: Irwin.

The quick grip clamps are great. Highly recommend them if you need a stocking stuffer. So much better than the old screw type.

http://www.dominopads.com/mh1.jpg

and since my first couple of projects with the rip blade turned out kinda rough I got a plastic blade (also by Irwin for only $13!!!) for the table saw. Made much nicer cuts:
http://www.dominopads.com/mh2.jpg

My seams are getting better as a result of the cleaner cuts too. I almost have myself talked into getting the torch after all. Polished edges would really make it look snazzy I think!

I already got the little acrylic tabs cut. Gave my son his very first job: I paid him 10 cents for every hole drilled into the tabs. He made $2.20 and thought it was the best thing ever! (Husband got a drill press for Valentine's - good timing ;) )

The cable ties to hold the mangroves will be attached to the little acrylic tabs. I haven't glued the tabs on yet though because I want to get the mangroves first to see what they look like in different locations...

(oh and just in case you are wondering: the rails go past the tank trim because they also go over the LED sticks ;) )

[txg8gxp]

Looks great!

[Europhyllia]

my light fixture is leaking :(

About 30 volts according to volt meter. Then I took out the wires for the different colors and mesures 24 for the whites only and 57 for the blues only. Maybe my volt meter has a low battery? Wouldn't that add up to more than 30 together?

You can only tell when you touch the hanging kit wires. Something must be touching the heatsink I guess and then the heatsink transfers that to the hanging kit wires.

I do have everything on GFCI outlets and I have a grounding probe in the sump.

All of the cables seem okay.

[Europhyllia]

The powersupply for the fixture is DC, not AC, so now nothing makes sense. The voltmeter would only measure AC, right?

This electric stuff is so confusing! Makes the chemistry part look easy...

[Mr Cob]

very inventive Karin. Can't wait to see the mangroves shooting out.

[Europhyllia]

more testing: loosening the screws on the stars takes the LED fixture down to 1.9. The tank still measures 30 - when the Sicce Syncra 3.0 is plugged in :(

[Europhyllia]

http://www.dominopads.com/mangroveroots.jpg
playing with paper bags to get ideas for the background...

[alton]

Karen your voltage should be 0 with the grounding probe. Did you check voltage to ground on the recept?

[Europhyllia]

Yes, yes it is!

We took the fixture off and checked it while it was on the table (not in the water ;) ) so the grounding probe had no effect on it.
Here's the weird thing:

The powersupply is DC and measures ZERO on an AC voltmeter. But then you measure it at the heatsink or the wires and the voltmeter picked up the 30 volt (AC) on the fixture?!

I think we found the problem though: the stars the LED itself was mounted to had the little copper patches that you solder stuff too. Some of the tiny screws that held the stars onto the heatsink must have been too close to those contact patches and thus transferring power from there to the heatsink. We loosened them and voltage dropped dramatically.
I will make an acrylic shield for the fixture and then completely remove the little screws. The stars are glued to the heatsink anyway.

As for the return pump: yes with a grounding probe in the sump the voltage drops to zero. Without it measures around 30 in the tank. So what would you do?
Throw the pump away? Keep using it with a grounding probe?

I got that one from Aquacave last Summer. Would 30 volt leakage be cause for a warranty return? Or is that normal?

Oh and about it measuring 0 with a grounding probe: after checking everything on the seahorse tank I was sort of holding my breath when I checked the big tank because it has so much stuff plugged into it.
I was so proud when it came back squeaky clean ZERO!
Then I remembered the big tank already had a grounding probe in the sump... :o
Without that grounding probe all the stuff on the big tank adds up to around 12 volts too.

[Europhyllia]

I was able to return the pump for warranty. I put on a Sicce 5.0 to replace the 3.0 - nice flow although I had to throttle it down some to let the overflow drain keep up.
I made an acrylic splash shield for the LED fixture. Feeling much safer now.
That acrylic meeting with Ace and Jack really has been so valuable to me!!!

Tank is now cycling and looking beautiful already with the pretty lighted background and Stephen's LED lights.
I was worried that moving it from the 30 gallon hex to a 60 gallon cube would turn out to be too dim but it's plenty bright and the glimmer is beautiful.

I am looking forward to adding macro as soon as the cycle completes. I'll kick start this one with some ammonium chloride to really up the bacteria level

[BSJF]

It's fun to watch your builds. Can't wait to see this one in person (as well as your other one).

[Mr Cob]

http://www.dominopads.com/mangroveroots.jpg
playing with paper bags to get ideas for the background...

wow! who would have ever thought...? That's slick and looks cool, almost like some mangrove tree roots!

[Europhyllia]

Yeah I was trying for roots. lol

I started with the cycle using pure ammonium chloride and Fritz Bacteria (overnighted/refrigerated)

Good News:
the ammonia and bacteria are working
Got the ammonia level up to close to 4ppm in the tank
less than 24 hours later it's down to 1.5 ppm ammonia, with 1 ppm nitrite and 50 ppm Nitrate

Bad News:
I thought it would be fun to track the progress with one of those Seachem Ammonia Alert stick ons (maybe also safe money on test stuff since I'd only test when it dropped to the next level)

Well even at 4.0ppm ammonia the Seachem thing showed green (instead of blue) indicating ammonia levels below 0.2ppm - not a chance!

[Europhyllia]

Just walked by and noticed the Seachem thingy now declares my tank safe. Checked ammonia with a test kit and -VOILA- in 26 hours my super dose of refrigerated bacteria pulled the ammonia down from close to 4 ppm to ZERO!!!
Nitrite is at 2 ppm so got to wait until that is zero before I can add more ammonia.
Very pleased with how this is going...

[BSJF]

Progress!

[LittleReef]

Nice looking tank! Can't wait to see how you progress. :)

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. The seahorses current tank is right next to it. I bet they can't wait to move over either. lol

[BSJF]

I'm so glad you got the corner overflow!

[Europhyllia]

Me too. Center overflow would have not looked right at all!

I am using this thread for my own record keeping so just ignore the cycle posts. I just want to keep track of my ammonium chloride/refrigerated mega dose of life bacteria approach.

Ammonia zero this morning (still), nitrite down to 1 ppm from 2ppm yesterday.

[wolff809]

any thing new?? hows the progress

[Europhyllia]

Progress is excellent. Thanks for asking. :)

The Fritz bacteria was expensive after overnight shipping but so worth it and the Ammonium Chloride couldn't have worked out better.
Reading back over a thread on the seahorse forum I realized afterwards that I cycled it for 24 seahorses' bioload instead of 2. lol
Better safe than sorry though!

The numbers have been staying solid. The seahorses have already moved over and are eating from their new bowl over there.
I love the new cube.

Macro and mangroves are arriving early next week and there will be more photos at that time :)

I am hoping for a late March or April trip to the coast to add two more little Reidi girls from GC Reef to my herd.

My only gripe is the noise level from the drain.

Once all of the other stuff is taken care off I will need to look into some mod options there...

[Europhyllia]

http://www.dominopads.com/mangrovetank.jpg

I may have to think about additional lighting for the mangrove tops and I am hoping the three rock columns that support the mangroves won't be as obvious once macro algae is added but I think we are off to an interesting start!

[hobogato]

can picture the ponies playing in there already. awesome job karin!

[wolff809]

It looks amazing Karin! Very natural

[Europhyllia]

http://www.dominopads.com/patchesinnewtank.jpg
Thanks! The girls have already adapted well.

Keep your fingers crossed that at least 2 of the 3 Reidis from GC Reef's 1st batch are girls! I'd love to pick a couple up end of this month :)

[ErikH]

I like the pic above, seahorses are cool pets!

[Europhyllia]

They are! I love them. If I had to downsize to just one tank I'd sell the big tank and keep the seahorses. They are just so sweet!

[Europhyllia]

seahorses approve of the new dining room and playground:

http://www.dominopads.com/seahorses030111.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/shmangrove1.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/shmangrove2.jpg

[Europhyllia]

I had some trouble with the mangroves not staying put due to the flow in the tank and not all of them being anchored on rocks so I decided to add my drilled acrylic tabs after all.
That seems to work out well in stabilizing them. :)

I also decided to grow some stuff on my overflow but didn't want to permanently glue anything to it so I replaced the outside magnets of Wet Acrylic one-hole frag racks with waterproof ones and used those to put some macro on my overflow. I can can still move them around so that's convenient

http://www.dominopads.com/mangrovetabs.jpg

[Scream311]

Great Pics, they look soo happy attached to the roots of the Magroves ;-)

[txav8r]

Are you related to Ace? Is there anything that you can't do????

Great Job Karin! You always amaze me with the things you come up with and plan out!!

[Europhyllia]

Haha. Thanks. I learned the glueing from you! Still wasn't able to get the polishing done. :( My edges always rolled before the cut became clear.

My MACRO just arrived. TONS of it.

Will post another pic this afternoon when everything is glued down and planted :)

[Europhyllia]

Everything glued and planted and OH I LOVE EVERYTHING!!!

I was hoping for some gold/yellow macro to encourage the seahorses coloration and I think I got some beautiful stuff including the yellow Laurencia I was hoping for.
(I purchased a 'Red Sampler' and couldn't choose but got what I wanted anyway. YAY!)

I planted the Profiler into the sand and it's a little cloudy because of it but I think you can already see how beautiful it's going to be (unless I have a lot of die off -that would be sad)

http://www.dominopads.com/macro1.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/macro2.jpg

[Jarob]

Thats looks AWESOME!! Wow, way better than I expected when opening this to look at the new pics, but what else should I expect from you!?

[Europhyllia]

I think it will be so nice for them when it grows in. That place i ordered the macro from has been so generous with their portions. Just one order of codium had like 6 or 7 plants in it. Since it's so stiff it seems to be a seahorse favorite already -gives them nice support. :)


THANKS! :D

[Kristy]

Wow. So beautiful and truly unique. Karin you are amazingly fearless at all the new stuff you try!

[hobogato]

that looks great! i can't wait to see it grown in

[txg8gxp]

Looks great! Macro tanks are just awesome

[Europhyllia]

Thanks I am feeling so happy with my tanks.

I think just a couple of years ago being on the TOTM team could have been a real downer, seeing other people's awesome tanks. But I am completely at peace now. I come home and I see my tanks and I really wouldn't trade them for any other tank I've seen. I finally found my direction/niche.
In all those years I've kept a saltwater tank I always just aimlessly added random corals.

Now I have a clear picture in my mind of what the final scene will look like. Makes it much easier to paint that picture when you got it so clear in your head.

And it all started with Alton's and Ace's shadowbox suggestion. It made me look at underwater photos and that really has changed my whole approach. I've really enjoyed it. :)

Now:
fingers crossed that all of the plants survive
and
hoping that GC Reef will have one or two or three Reidi girls for me :)

[justahobby]

Un-friggin-believable!!! Nicely done Karin. Where did the macro come from?

[Europhyllia]

Now that the dust has settled:
http://www.dominopads.com/shtank030211.jpg

The golden ones are nice, eh? Sargassum and yellow Laurencia. Seahorses are already turning a nicer shade of yellow/orange to keep up with the macro.
The Laurencia has a couple of white tips. I'll be super disappointed if it doesn't make it. It's the bright yellow thing in the middle and it's even more amazing in person. My pictures always suck.

I got the macro from Gulf Coast Ecosystems. Everything came in very generous portions too. Most of the really colorful stuff came as part of their 'Red Macro Sampler' which is kind of a grab bag of whatever they got in red/yellow. Worked out well

[alton]

Karin I should pay you to take care of my tanks since you do such an awesome job with yours. Question would be if you take coors light and deer sausage as payment? Once again great looking tank and a neat idea!

[Europhyllia]

You know even though I've been to your place quite a bit I actually have never seen your awesome 300!!!

[Europhyllia]

http://www.dominopads.com/poppyandpatchesmarch11.jpg

Yes I know I am taking way too many pictures but these seahorses are just so photogenic! I can't stop myself...

(and the macro is awesome admit it -what a find in such a nice rich golden hue!)

[alton]

Once again you have out done yourself

[Europhyllia]

Thanks Alton.
I just came back from town after picking up a used Mega Flow drain from JT to replace the new Quick Flow drain that came with the tank.

MUCH BETTER!

Even my husband admitted: best ten dollars ever spent. lol

It's so much more quiet. Now I can really start to enjoy the tank. :)

[justahobby]

Gorgeous horses. What are you feeding them?

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. I feed one cube Hikari Mysis and one cube PE mysis per day (so glad they now sell the PE in cubes!!!)

[Texreefer]

Very nice looking tank Karin,, good Job!

[justahobby]

Cubes are a lot more convenient. Two cubes sounds like a lot for two horses. Their bellies look round and happy. I'm glad they are doing so well for you :D

[Europhyllia]

They are two years old and Reidis are some of the bigger seahorses. When I picked them up from Sarah I was a little shocked actually. They were nothing like the little babies you usually see at the pet store since they were already older.
But yes, seahorses do eat quite a bit hence good filtration/circulation is really important.

I can't wait to see the 4 months olds at GC Reef! I bet they will be tiny compared to the big girls :)

[Troy Valentine]

That is one awesome tank! If I were a seahorse that would be the perfect retirement tank for me. Relaxing, and all the shrimp you can eat.....Do you dose vodka? That might be a nice treat:)

[funkyseamonkey]

Looking great! :)

[Europhyllia]

Thanks Troy. I aim to please ;)

Hopefully we'll be adding a couple of baby seahorses (or actually more like toddler seahorses) to the tank in the next few months so no vodka until everybody is of age. :)

[Gseclipse02]

Thanks Alton.
I just came back from town after picking up a used Mega Flow drain from JT to replace the new Quick Flow drain that came with the tank.

MUCH BETTER!

Even my husband admitted: best ten dollars ever spent. lol

It's so much more quiet. Now I can really start to enjoy the tank. :)


glad everything worked out Karin and geez your kids are getting BIG lol

[Europhyllia]

well...
the yellow macro I loved so much has changed colors and has developed red tips.
Still very pretty and healthy -just no longer yellow. lol

A huge amount of the Prolifera died off and I sucked it out with today's water change. Luckily I can already see new shoots coming out of the sandbed so fresh new leaves should be covering that area in no time.

One out of the 6 mangroves is still looking droopy. That one had the most leaves so of course suffered the most from being shipped I guys. Since the other 5 are doing well I don't mind having to replace one and will just get a mangrove pod at some point.

I have some diatoms right now but nothing too drastic. water parameters have stayed perfectly stable and the seahorses are enjoying their new place so it's all good.

[SoLiD]

Are you Iron Dosing?

Randy Holmes-Farley on Reef Central made this post on 1-28-07 about dosing Iron.

-From Reef Central-
"The reverse is often noted, that by adding iron you boost macroalgae at the expense of microalgae, so what you experienced seems what I would expect. That effect was noted to me many years ago,and when I dosed iron, it had the expected effect.

These articles have more:

First Iron Article: Macroalgae and Dosing Recommendations
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm

Second Iron Article: Iron: A Look at Organisms Other than Macroalgae
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm "

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030750

[Europhyllia]

Thanks for the links David.
The site I ordered the macro from is very informative and so I already considered iron, just haven't done it yet. I did take out the cuprisorb (cuprisorb absorbs other metals besides copper. I've been keeping one package in every sump just as a preventative) a couple of days ago to at least not remove the iron I introduce with my saltmix.

I will read through the links and come to a conclusion. lol

I also considered iodine but find iodine super confusing since the different kinds don't get tested for by each test kit and it is removed from the water fairly quickly. Focusing on the iron might be smarter/easier.

[Europhyllia]

Okay I am getting me some iron supplement from Birghtwell's and a test kit.

Look how much my treasured yellow macro has changed!
All orange ...

http://www.dominopads.com/orangemacro.jpg

[justahobby]

Nice catch. It probably would have taken me a lot longer to make the connection between lots of new macro and an iron deficiency. Not something we are used to worrying about :D

[Europhyllia]

I am not sure that I have a deficiency. I haven't tested yet. :) But I will soon... lol

Right now everything is doing super well even without the iron addition. Prolifera didn't get its name for nothing. You can pretty much watch it grow...!

[BSJF]

I have a very large bottle of iron if you wanted to give it a try. Usually iron is what I would add if leaves were yellowing, not if I wanted something to turn yellow, so not sure if the logic on that works for me.

Most likely it is associated with the stress of shipping. Some of the plant dies off and will turn very different colors (yellow could be dying and red regrowth or the other way around).

If you send a pic to the person you got it from they can probably help you troubleshoot the issue.

[BSJF]

lol - and low light versus high light changes the degree of red in many macros too :)

[Europhyllia]

yeah I don't think the color change had anything to do with iron. I am pretty sure 3 days in transit in the dark more than likely caused it to go yellow due to low light.
Then with the LEDs even though I have it at the lowest point in the tank it still got more (of course) than in the shipping box and turned back to whatever it used to be.

Same with the Prolifera. That always dies for my a bit if I move it. Happened to a different batch of Prolifera too when I got the seahorses and again during the emergency evacuation. Nice thing about Prolifera though is that it comes back with lots of new shoots and the dead stuff is easy to remove.

What David brought up was something I read before on the Macro sellers website. In fact they sell the chelated Iron under their 'Fertilizer' category.

Since this is definitely a macro dominant tank I am all for supplementing if it turns out to be (or in the future) go below the recommended 0.05-0.10 ppm

I mean I dose Kalkwasser for the big reef so iron for the plants seems just fair :)

[Europhyllia]

tested today and my iron is zero on a Seachem test kit so I am going to start dosing. Incidently my prolifera is kind of yellowish so we'll see what it thinks about the iron supplement. :)

[SoLiD]

When I dosed iron, my refugium macro algae growth became so dense that it could be pulled out as one big whole chunk. And it also contained a ridiculous amount of pods.

[Europhyllia]

Nice. I read the article that seemed to indicate the iron supplement would give the macro an edge over nuissance algae. That would be nice (it's not a huge problem but better to nip it in the butt before it becomes a bigger problem).

The instructions were interesting stating that to dose the Brightwell's iron supplement it's important to keep Phosphates below 0.05, which shouldn't be too tough. I jsut recently tested it and it was 0.06 so I added GFO

[jrsatx20]

My macro wont grow. Lost most of the stuff I got from u karin. Gonna dose iron n see what happens

[Europhyllia]

hope it helps! I can give you a little more the next time I see you. You need a dirtier tank! lol

Hair algae has really messed with my tank. I tried turbos, nerites, assort snails, chitons, etc. and nothing seems to eat it. worst of all it grows on the mangrove roots and snails don't climb there.
I did some reading and found that hermits of the Clibanarius digueti type eat hair algae so I got some and that worked out fantastic at first.
Now they found the seahorse feeding dish and prefer mysis over algae.

I came up with a wall mount feeding dish. At least they can't climb glass walls!

It's just an egg drop soup container with a heater suction cup thingy cable tied to it. Patches already got it and was eating from it. Hopefully Poppy will figure it out soon too.
And if all goes well the hermits will get hungry now and get back to work...

http://www.dominopads.com/wallmount1.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/wallmount2.jpg

[BSJF]

Seahorses to go!

[Europhyllia]

Oh that would be a hard to resist drive through. Can you imagine?

[hobogato]

definitely will be following along with your progress on the iron dosing since i will have some macroalgae in my tank

and yes, that would be a very costly drive thru for me :)

[cbianco]

http://www.dominopads.com/shtank030211.jpg

Any more/new FTS?

Christopher :)

[Europhyllia]

Yes, here's my algae infested mess now :( :


http://www.dominopads.com/shtankapril2311_2.jpg

[hobogato]

doesnt look like a mess to me!

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. Looks at the mangrove roots though! Yucky!!!
Hermits better get going...

I just did the funnest thing! The girls were still having trouble accepting the new wall mount bowl so I just lifted them up and brought them to the bowl. Like seahorses do they wrapped their tails around my fingers and used my hand as their station to hold onto while they ate from the new bowl.
So sweet! Seahorses have got to be the coolest fish. :)

[BSJF]

!!!

[StevenSeas]

Thanks. Looks at the mangrove roots though! Yucky!!!
Hermits better get going...

I just did the funnest thing! The girls were still having trouble accepting the new wall mount bowl so I just lifted them up and brought them to the bowl. Like seahorses do they wrapped their tails around my fingers and used my hand as their station to hold onto while they ate from the new bowl.
So sweet! Seahorses have got to be the coolest fish. :)

Maybe you should get a clear bird dish/bowl with a perch on it so that your horses can hold on and eat easier. Kinda like this http://www.windycityparrot.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/products/graphics/00000001/planitdish510TN_GET.jpg&maxx=0&maxy=150

[Europhyllia]

Ha That's cute!

They actually have a mangrove root right beside the bowl and a tree sponge so I think technically they're okay.

Hopefully tomorrow they'll remember without a lift.

I shut off the return pump for an hour using my RKL so the water is very still when they eat (and it doesn't blow the food out of the bowl). They can grip pretty tight even onto small ledges.

Cute idea though! If I ever get more ponies I might try that simply because it would be so adorable seeing 4 little horses all hitched in a row! :)

[txg8gxp]

Looking good, do you think you will need to raise the light up over the mangroves? I was thinking I would need to raise mine like a foot or so. I love the yellow macro, you still have any or did it not adjust to your tank very well?

[Europhyllia]

Stephen the yellow macro turned red. I talked to the collector and he said none of the ones that are collected yellow stay yellow under aquarium light. They all turn red.
I thought of adding a bulb above the fixture - actually just picked up a Feit LED from Costco (uses CREE lenses!) but haven't added it yet. The mangroves seem fine with just the light that falls in from the window (like houseplants really) and not needing the fixture that shines into the tank.

[Europhyllia]

oh and the sargassum would have stayed golden brown but the sargassum didn't make it :(

[txg8gxp]

oh and the sargassum would have stayed golden brown but the sargassum didn't make it :(
I plan to add a floating section of sargassum, it should be really cool. Adriene came up with the idea, we will tie it off to a magnet to keep it on the side of the tank I want it. Hopefully shrimp will like to hang out upside down under it.

[Europhyllia]

That will be nice if it works out! For some reason most of the collectors stated that they offered the non-floating kind. There was a reason for it but I forgot what it was. I think either pests or just survival rate.

[CoryDude]

I just read this entire thread from page 13 up to your first post Karin. Kind of cool looking at the progress in reverse order (like the Star Wars prequels, only yours is a much better story!!!). I personally like the yellow macro that's orange/reddish. I think it stands out better against your blue background.

Troy and I were talking about algae last week. We both agree that the nuisance algaes decline over time as your tank reaches some kind of equilibrium. I bet with continued maintenance and some tlc, your hair algae will disappear with time. But, Randy's article has me rethinking dosing iron.

[Europhyllia]

I totally LOVED the yellow macro as well!
But I trust the collectors explanation that they will all turn red under aquarium lighting. Might be different for Ace and his solar tubes.

So no point in keep buying yellow macro and yanking it out when it turns red. lol

[justahobby]

Seems odd that the GHA has a foothold w/ so much macro. Algae fight, just like coral, for space and resources. Do you think it is possible that the struggle between such a mixture of macro has given the GHA a fighting chance or do you already know the culprit?


Thought this might interest some people while on the subject. It's an article on if macroalgaes use allelopathy to out compete invertebrates

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbs.asu.edu%2Fnews_events%2Fnews% 2F2011%2Fpdf%25202011%2Faaas%252011%2520posters%2F warkus_poster.pdf&rct=j&q=macroalgaes%20allelopathy&ei=SqTETdnZA4X20gHqq-mxCA&usg=AFQjCNG6V84l4Q7XozgIpB9YjBiUO9Jnwg&sig2=Zoek0Ag9nut3cdxVAT5EDA&cad=rja

[Europhyllia]

What makes you think macro outpaces hair algae as a rule? Even on the reef hair algae is abundant. (got an interesting article on that if you are interested!) Only there is a wider variety of herbivores.
It's a relatively new tank and looking at the Seahorse Board it's pretty common in even older seahorse tanks. I think there are other much more likely explanations for my hair algae than a macro fight. :)

[justahobby]

True, new tank. But macro algae will still out compete given proper care..... otherwise, why do we keep macro fuges?

[Texreefer]

If it werent for herbivores like snails.. hair algae would likely be the ONLY thing on the reefs, left alone it will win hands down against any other macro

[Europhyllia]

That's what I was thinking Texreefer.

I'll see the if I can find my Caribbean sea urchin article.

We use macro fuges for several reasons. My main one is actually to reverse light it and help with pH swings. Nutrient uptake is another one. Might as well spread the joy and hope for the best. lol

But I've seen plenty of macro tanks on Seahorse.org tht still have hair algae even though they are filled to the top with macro!

So who says macro always outcompetes GHA and what is that 'proper care'?

By the way seahorses are also pretty hard on macro because they hitch so much so the more fragile ones get quite a bit of wear...

[CoryDude]

So who says macro always outcompetes GHA and what is that 'proper care'?


Me and Troy say so...that's who!!! :bigsmile:

This is just experience talking here. We're no experts on the subject. But, we've both seen this happen. I always assumed that if you stunted the unwanted algae growth by manual removal and limiting nutrients, that the desirable algae would take its place. Eventually the good stuff would take up the nutrients and minerals that the unwanted algae would have used.

I've seen this natural progression in many of my tanks, including my wife's 60 gallon. In that tank's case, I removed most of the bryopsis and red bubble algae that I could. Then I installed an denitrator and quit doing water changes for about 4 months. It worked a lot better than scrubbing rocks and raising the magnesium levels.

Again, this is just one approach. As far as proper care...do I really need to explain that to you?

[justahobby]

Ok, I am in no way trying to imply that GHA will be void in the presence of macro algae. That's just silly :D Macroalgaes are typically fast growers that use up nutrients quickly (comparatively). I'm too tired to dig for articles, but take a new tank for example. GHA is the first to pop up and spreads quickly. It can get out of hand without nutrient control and a CUC. Animals (CUC, tangs....) process and use phosphates, but they also excrete them. So while you are getting rid of some of the phosphates, it's also reentering the water column and LR. Your macro uses this and outcompetes the GHA that's now stunted by pruning, CUC, etc. Now, your macro has a foothold. Macro competing with each other is not likely? Do some research on it and see what you come up with. I would, but I need to be at work at 5 tomorrow and I'm pretty sure my alarm clock doesn't have a setting that early : /

Proper care: providing an environment beneficial to macro eg. light spectrum, flow, etc.

[Europhyllia]

I totally get it that CUC is there to remove the GHA but I do have limitations that are specific to a seahorse tank (and perhaps the reason even seasoned seahorse keepers struggle with algae but especially at the beginning months of a tank).

Here's what seahorse keepers deal with:
* low flow environment
* constant hitching places strain at least on some macro algae (I had macro that colored up beautifully and showed some growth but with large seahorses wrapping their tails around it it kept breaking off)
* no large herbivores like tangs
* a large amount of areas inaccessible to snails (because snails don't fly... ;) )
* high and frequent input of nutrients

I never said macro doesn't compete with each other, just that other factors are likely to be much bigger contributors (see both posts above) than the war between macro.
(kind of like the reason I am not wearing size 2 jeans could be that I have some thyroid disfunction -but much more likely it's because I really like pizza and pies...)

Would my GHA be gone if I plopped a yellow tang in there? Probably. Not an option in a seahorse tank IMO
Add CUC? I am already working on that with some success (see info about digueti hermits and new wall mount food bowl)
Add Phosban reactor? already got it
Add Nitrate removing media? got it
Increase flow? Not really an option. I have the highest flow seahorses (and even some macro) would be happy with

So... the proper care thing might be easy to declare for people with a mixed reef that includes tangs but the proper care for a more specialized set ups like a seahorse tank might be more complicated. ;)

And I think even Troy and Justin might agree: good things take time. I am making progress on the algae front but unless I throw a tang in there or massively overstock the CUC it's going to take some time to tweak it.

[Europhyllia]

Proper care: providing an environment beneficial to macro eg. light spectrum, flow, etc.

I believe there's a good chance that an environment beneficial to macro algae could also be an environment GHA enjoys

[Troy Valentine]

Stand alone seahorse tanks are the most challenging tanks to keep IMHO. I am not sure you could ever reach an equilibrium. Because as you outlined above,you are constantly changing the water chemistry. You would need the biological filtration power of a sizeable system in order to find that balance. A huge skimmer, skimming wet, and a full functioning Xenia fuge to remove excess DOMs. The food must be removed before it is cycled through the nitrogen process. The algae growth is the effect; eliminate the cause. Very challenging system to work through!! Your seahorse tank is still the nicest one I've seen any hobbiest keep..... Great job Karin

[Troy Valentine]

Karin, I was just looking at your system, and I've come to the conclusion that like the rest of us you are way to critical of your own system. It looks amazing!

[CoryDude]

Karin, have you talked to Richard yet? I know years ago he was running a Hiatt (yeah, I know, here come the comments from the peanut gallery) to help with his nutrient export. Sorry, didn't mean to come across as sounding that you could totally eradicate gha, and I wasn't even suggesting adding a tang, just carefull prunning. I totally see your point at the hurdles a sh tank enounters vs. a regular reef tank.

But it's like our garden last year. At first, there were a lot of weeds and st. augustine grass encrouching on the squash and corn. I kept pulling and plucking for what seemed like forever last season. Eventually, I got it to where there were just a few sprigs and sprouts of the unwanted growth by the end of the summer.

Troy is right, I think we can be too critical of our tanks sometimes. I'm really, really thinking about doing a similar setup with our 60 cube. My wife loves watching the seahorses over at Polly's.

[Europhyllia]

No prob. The thing is I feel like I actually have a pretty good plan going right now. And I am seeing progress. So at this point it seems a little premature to change directions in my approach to encourage macro and discourage gha.
The rocks are starting to get very clean with the new clean up crew. Both the hermits and I myself have been plucking away at the algae on the mangrove roots.
The macro is doing really well and gowing.
So while I don't 'love' the gha in the display I don't dislike it or feel like I am losing the battle here.
I watched the effects of biopellets (assuming Hiatt's results would be the same) on the macro and would definitely hate that. Not even easy stuff like Halymenia did well with the BioPellets.
I'd rather have some gha than no macro.

I am not desperate (yet). :)

Summary: I have hair algae. I found CUC critters that eat it well and even are able to climb the mangrove roots to clean there. I am supporting their efforts with manual removal. It won't be an overnight fix but I can see progress. Macro is doing well with this approach too. So hopefully this isn't sounding stuck up or anything but I really feel like I am using 'proper care' for my particular set up. :)

[johnmaloney @ Reef Cleaners]

drift sargassum tends to die off and has a good deal of tannins in it to boot so that is why they stay away from it

edit - woops, i was responding to something much earlier when I typed that^.

Just to add to the current conversation, hair algae is a tough one to nail down because it is a label that refers to hundreds of different and pretty varied species, That said, most hair algae species are simple, and are fairly efficient at acquiring resources, and covering a large area of space with little bio mass. Additionally many are epiphytes, and can grow on other species of algae, blocking their light and suffocating them. Certain algae species are more resistant to others, (sargassum is pretty resistant), others not so much. (THe calcified reds arent good at fighting off the faster growing greens, but can handle lulls in light better than their hair algae counterparts could, making a lights out period pretty effective. Coralline is a calcified red...) Well anyway, interesting thread, I should probably finish reading it and catch up, sorry for the out of context original post.

[BSJF]

I believe this is your thread Karin, your proper care along with time and patience. And as Troy said, the tank looks amazing.

[CoryDude]

Agreed! When I said, "do I really need to explain proper care", I meant that if there's anyone on Maast that knows the meaning of 'proper care', you're the one.

[justahobby]

I mentioned it as a question since you have mentioned a couple struggles with your macro. I didn't mean for it to come across as the golden ticket to solve your problems. I just think it is commonly underestimated the level at which they compete with each other.



Karin, I was just looking at your system, and I've come to the conclusion that like the rest of us you are way to critical of your own system. It looks amazing!

x 2!!

[Europhyllia]

Thanks! :) I upped the hermits and they wiped our most of the algae. I can really highly recommend them. I am thrilled with how well they worked out so far!!!

I also picked up a cool CREE PAR38 bulb at Costco. Check it out:
http://www.dominopads.com/creebulb.jpg

I added it above the DIY LED fixture to give the mangroves a little more sunshine. It also illuminates the tank quite a bit. I am thinking of running that one only 4-6 hours a day just to supplement that regular fixture.

Not sure how much it really does for plant growth?

The Mangroves are opening up their second set of leaves. :)

[Europhyllia]

I have to say I am so glad I added the Costco CREE light!!! The hermits have taken out almost all of the hair algae and the addition of the new LED light has really helped the macro thrive. Before it was jut hanging in there. Now the macro is doing really well. I'm very happy with it!

[Europhyllia]

Thanks to Josh Lorraine and I got to collect grass shrimp on the island. I brought so many back for the seahorses that at this time for the first time ever they are so full of grass shrimp that they barely take notice of them. lol

I still have a 10 gallon tank full of them. They refused the anti-parasite pellets at first but have started to eat them now so I don't worry about the seahorses getting worms or anything.

I don't think I'll be able to go to the coast in the future without bring grass shrimp back. This is fabulous. Love it!

[CoryDude]

Good thing you only took home the state mandated limit of 20 shrimp. I regret not getting any. When Misty and I go back down in August, I'll bring you some back.

[Europhyllia]

I could have shared half of them (10 obviously!) with you!

[BSJF]

Mine didn't eat the pellets either.

[Europhyllia]

just don't offer anything else for a day or two and they'll eat them :) (I am assuming you are talking about the shrimp eating the medicated pellets)

[Europhyllia]

oh and good news! There's no limit set for the grass shrimp. Some people refer to them as saltwater ghost shrimp however those are not the same that the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept calls Ghost Shrimp and has the 20 shrimp limit set to. Here's a link on those:
http://www.nps.gov/pais/naturescience/ghostshrimp.htm

[Jeff]

that is a gorgeous tank you have, i always wanted to have a large mangrove root/ planted tank for some horses and a mandrine or two. don't be afraid to use a power head in the tank, they will actually play in the stronger current. also as you watch your tank mature you will find even the gha and things that others consider a nuicence are very beautiful and can add another bit of a true natural look that you will appreciate as time goes by. as the macro grows, start feeding the horses less and wach them hunt for the pods that will thrive in the rocks and algeas there by introducing less phosphates and keeping the tank in better control. this is just my 2 cents from when i had some horses and also from jose's tank when he had his up.

[Europhyllia]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for the ideas! I'd love to see a picture of your set up.
As far as live foods goes these are fully grown Reidi seahorses (very large) and they really have no interest in pods. In fact they don't even bother bending over for adult brine. It's just too small to interest them. They love big stuff like the grass shrimp from the coast.
They might go for large amphipods but I don't really know where to get the large amphipods. So grass shrimp are just much easier. :)

[Europhyllia]

update from today. pretty overgrown and messy...
http://www.dominopads.com/seahorsetank072811.jpg

[LuckySingh]

update from today. pretty overgrown and messy...
http://www.dominopads.com/seahorsetank072811.jpg
Sea horses do like mess like this:bigsmile:...
by the way what kinda red algae is that

[Europhyllia]

big one in the corner is gracillaria, a little red grape on the bottom. not sure what the 3 in the back are. I like to get the 'sampler' packs from Live-plants.com since you gt a nice variety. on the downside you don't always know what each are called

[LuckySingh]

big one in the corner is gracillaria, a little red grape on the bottom. not sure what the 3 in the back are. I like to get the 'sampler' packs from Live-plants.com since you gt a nice variety. on the downside you don't always know what each are called
yea to me they all look same if it wouldnt been different in color...
but that red grape looks pretty neat...
lmk when u trim it down:bigsmile:

[Europhyllia]

oh they all have totally different textures. red grape is very common. you can probably find somebody in San Antonio that already has quite a bit to trim :)

[Europhyllia]

http://www.dominopads.com/breederbasket.jpg

isn't this the nicest breeder/isolation basket you've ever seen? I used to have only the easy to gunk up net kind but I really like this one. has a clear acrylic side towards the glass for easy viewing and the other sides are plastic mesh

The seahorses might be getting a new roomie tomorrow.

And I am thinking of really big plans for this fall/winter... :o

[txg8gxp]

If you have time could you post a close up pic of how you mounted your mangroves to your braces, I'm getting mine this week and still not sure what I'm going to do. Thanks

[Europhyllia]

will do.

basically though it's just little pieces of acrylic that I had holes drilled into (two holes in each tab) and then I used something called Lastin (it's actually for sewing). It's a very stretchy, wide, clear elastic to tied each mangrove to the tabs (threading it through the holes).
The Lastin elastic is nice and wide so it doesn't hurt the plants like something thinner or less elastic would.
The size of the tab is long enough to give it stability. (If you tied them straight to the rack without tabs the current would push them over)
http://www.dominopads.com/mangrovetabs.jpg

Does that make sense?

[Europhyllia]

Lastin:
http://www.createforless.com/Sei+Inc+Lastin+Clear+Elastic+3/8+4+yd/pid53890.aspx

[txg8gxp]

Got it, thanks I might have to do something like that. I ordered five and don't have rock high up in the tank to mount them to

[Europhyllia]

oh shoot I forgot to update this!

The seahorses got a new (tiny) roomie:
captive bred blue mandarin
http://www.dominopads.com/mandarinday1.jpg

My most expensive fish ever -but only because I bought the seahorses used...

[Europhyllia]

Steven I'll look and see if I have tabs left over. I can bring them when I get the macros

[txg8gxp]

He looks awesome!

[Europhyllia]

The girls are getting a boyfriend! At last. Been waiting for a long time :)
I am scheduling his arrival end of September.

[justahobby]

How's the mandarin doing? Is he eating prepared foods?

[Europhyllia]

No. It was very sad. I've had so many wild caught mandarins that getting a captive bred was sort of the thing I've always dreamed of.
He never started eating anything. I contacted ORA and they were very nice and helpful. They suggested different foods and I had a bunch of specialty foods overnighted to me (at that point this was starting to be the 3 million dollar mandarin lol). But he didn't touch anything. Not even the frozen prawn eggs. He only lasted 5 days. I'm not sure where I went wrong. I tried really hard.

Ironically a few weeks later I went to Texas Tropical to buy freezer bars of cyclopeeze and they had just gotten a shipment of wild caughts come in.
It was of course totally irresponsible but I bought one of the wild caughts anyway. Within a couple of days that one started eating all kinds of the frozen foods I was offering. He gets so excited when he sees the feeding tube and loves bloodworms and the prawn eggs of course. He's totally awesome.

I still feel horrid about killing the super special ORA one though and have no idea why he didn't survive.

[justahobby]

Sorry to hear that. I've heard others mention problems with getting ORA mandarins to eat so it wasn't anything you did or didn't do. Was the TT mandarin a target or psychedelic?

[Europhyllia]

He's a beautiful BLUE!!!
I've read from Wittenreich how the Targets are always easier to convert to frozen so it's been a wonderful surprise how well this wild caught blue mandarin has adjusted. I swear two days tops and he was crazy for bloodworms.

[justahobby]

That is awesome. It took almost a week for my target to accept frozen. I always thought it looked like they were eating spaghetti when the suck up bloodworms

[Europhyllia]

Same here. a jittery week or two with my targets.
And with this one I felt super guilty for buying it in the first place.

Now I just need to wait till my mother in law leaves so I can have my new seahorse boy shipped. :D

[Europhyllia]

I am anxiously waiting for my special little boy!
Super nervous though after the bust with my special mandarin.

If I kill the new seahorse I'll give up. That would be so horrible.

Still thinking of a name that starts with 'P'. The girls are Poppy and Patches. :)

He left Florida at 4pm and he should be here before noon!

[justahobby]

Woot! Do you know what color? Is this the first stage of baby seahorses to come??

Did you lose the most recent mandarin too?

[Europhyllia]

No recent mandarin is doing super well -but he's in the 215g tank.

I am going to try myself at fry raising. :) Cheryl has been super helpful and I've been bugging her lots.

Reidi fry are super hard to raise though.

GC Reef tried for a few month and eventually gave up.

Even the seahorse suppliers here are importing from Asia and not breeding here (unlike the easy ones like Erectus/Kuda/etc. which are captive US bred). So if at some point I manage to raise even just one baby to maturity it would be outstanding and wonderful. :)

[CoryDude]

You're always aiming for the edge of the envelope. Go ahead Karin, keep pushing those boundaries!

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. I doubt it will work. But I'll try.

Did I mention how super special this little boy is?
I've been on a waiting list since FEBRUARY!!!!

The seahorse people finally got tired of me checking in and are letting me have one of their own males. No others to be had.

He just arrived in Memphis, TN by the way. I know you've been dying to know...

[FireWater]

If it was one of their males then it should be a little easier to keep him right? Proven track record?

I wish you luck in trying to raise them. That would be amazing if, like you said, you were able to get even one to survive.

For the record I think you should name it Peter.

[Europhyllia]

Pauly is here. :)
He's fully grown I guess but compared to my monster girls still small-ish

[alton]

Pictures????????

[Europhyllia]

I don't want to jinx myself. He really worried me yesterday. Seemed to be breathing fast and not eating at all.
Luckily though this morning he seemed perkier and ate a few bites. :)
Cheryl says males tend to have a harder time adjusting to stress/new environments.

[BSJF]

Great sign he is eating even a little at this point.

[Europhyllia]

Good news and horrible news.

I lost Poppy. Out of the blue. Didn't see this one coming at all!

One day I just did a headcount and noticed she was missing. (the tank gets so overgrown with macro it's sort of normal to not see all 3 all the time)
She was only 3 years old according to my info (adopted her a year ago) and was huge and healthy!

On a positive note Pauly, the male, has adjusted well and has learned to eat from the food bowl so there will be less waste floating around.

He and Patches get along really well. Here they are together:
http://www.dominopads.com/paulandpatches.jpg

[Europhyllia]

I found her. Today. She must have been dead in the tank for a week by now! I can't believe I didn't find her the first time!!
I even checked ammonia while she was missing at some point and it came out zero.
I ripped out mot of the Prolifera to find her. I left a small batch in teh back where it was tough to reach and today when I looked in there there she was. Her body had turned white by now but she was still floating upright and still tail wrapped around some macro algae. Eery to say the least.
I should have ripped all of it out. Poor seahorses to be in the tank with such a large decaying animal! :(
I had done a huge water change a couple of days ago and will do another today.
She was the big seahorse I have ever seen. Even bigger than the other female Patches that was presumably the same age. If there was any aggression (didn't see any but not sure what aggression would look like in seahorses) I would have expected Poppy to come out on top.
This is so odd. Both Patches and Paul are still doing very well. No signs of stress or disease!
But then Poppy looked perfectly fine too. Heck she even looked perfectly fine mummified a week later hanging on to her Prolifera.
Shoot I am not sure what went wrong! :(
I hope adding Paul wasn't what killed her. I though raising seahorses would be fun but I wouldn't have gotten Paul if I would have thought it would harm Poppy or Patches. Poor Poppy :(

[Kristy]

Oh wow. Sounds surreal. Sorry she is gone. Really hate it when we can't figure out exactly what went wrong.

[justahobby]

That is weird to find her in the position. Sorry you had to find her mummified. Good news is you seem to have been succesful ay keeping their colors light.

[Europhyllia]

yes fitting for Halloween I was able to produce the all white ghost morph... :o

[Europhyllia]

Oh wait with light colors did you mean Patches and Paul (in the pic)?
Yes Paul has colored up a tad. Females tend to be more colorful. But he has gotten a little brighter too. And with all that macro and the lighted gel sheet background it's really not a problem for them to stay light rather than turn black :)

[Europhyllia]

I keep counting seahorses. Getting a little paranoid now. But both still seem just fine. I added some Prime just in case but still no ammonia detectable. I am surprised the tank could handle such a large decaying animal.

[CoryDude]

I was just about to ask you if you had some Prime ready. That really sucks on your find today. I was still holding out hope that you found her alive and well. Guess you'll be a little on edge for the next few weeks.

[funkyseamonkey]

I'm sad to hear poppy passed. :( glad the male adjusted well.

[Europhyllia]

I know. So sorry Sarah.

On a positive note: I think I watched the seahorses mate today! (is it still called mating if there's an exchange of eggs? Anyway stuff was exchanged!)
So I may have 14 days to gather together my supplies for my first try at raising fry. :)

[hobogato]

very cool! lmk if you need rotifers of phyto, our cultures are doing well.

[Europhyllia]

aewsome. Thanks! What strain do you have? L?

[hobogato]

i am not sure. i would have said L when i first started them, but when i looked at them last week in the scope most looked like S with some L still apparent.

[Europhyllia]

Cool. I am going to get the hardware together first and see how he's progressing.
Mating seems over for right now and the pouch is closed. :)

By the way I was thinking of just putting your macro in a styrofoam box and leaving it on your door step. It should hold fine like that until you get home.

[funkyseamonkey]

Yay exciting! Pictures are a must.

[Europhyllia]

My fry tub arrived.
Hopefully the seahorse is actually pregnant and the tub works awesome because it was shockingly expensive for a plastic tub. lol
If I make a stupid mistake with the bulkhead I'll just shoot myself
12921

[justahobby]

One picture will hardly suffice. What does your Gucci tub do exactly?

[Europhyllia]

finished it should look like this:
12922

no dead spots since it's round. filtration on the bottom. that sort of thing

[justahobby]

Fancy stuff. Where are you getting the curved wall bulkhead? Or will if go on bottom?

[Europhyllia]

yes the drain is t the bottom :)

[Europhyllia]

(you scared me for a second with a need for a curved wall bulkhead lol)

[justahobby]

Haha, sorry. I was going to ask where you got it. I looked everywhere for one when I wanted to do a remote dsb a while back.

[BSJF]

Sorry about poppy. Do you think she could have gotten tangled in the macro when you were cleaning and couldn't get back out? Glad you did get a cycle. Looking forward to baby pics now.

[Europhyllia]

No these seahorses were huge. And she was still perfectly hitched even in death. No tangles or anything.

[Europhyllia]

well now I'm not so sure. I figured Paul was pregnant but I saw him fluttering to Patches this morning. I guess either way it will be good to have everything set up...

[Europhyllia]

I think I am all set for fry! Okay I still need water but otherwise as far as I know I'm ready.

So here's what I have:

set of sieves to collect my rotifers (I already tested it and the water with the rotifers goes through the 250 and 120 sieves by then just stands in the 53 sieve. I thought the 53 is supposed to be the one I actually have the rotis in! What's happening?)
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry1.jpg

here's my rotifers
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry2.jpg

I got two buckets going in case something happens
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry3.jpg

Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis - although for some reason the Iso is really lagging beyind...
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry4.jpg

The whole tub set up
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry5.jpg

The top part (I didn't glue the last elbow figuring I might want to be able to adjust this)
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry6.jpg

The screen thingy
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry7.jpg

The tub- started with a 10g but it cracked... :o
http://www.dominopads.com/sfry8.jpg

Filtration is a Emperor 400 filter and a UV bulb. I also have a CPR BakPak that I was thinking of adding. Add skimmer or not add skimmer?

[BSJF]

I'm sure you have done much reading and research, but just wanted to share another concept. http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/fry.html

And in regards to your roti culture, the 53 sieve is clogged. Either from a dense culture, ditritus, and or an unclean sieve. Try screening a smaller amount of water. Be careful not to disturb the culture before screening so you don't pick up extra the ditritus.

How green is the fry water? If you want it green, the skimmer would skim all that out.

[Europhyllia]

Thanks Lorraine! That is an interesting approach. The approach I am using was developed by Dan at Seahorse Source. Bacterial growth is a major cause of fry death so I am hoping utilizing a sump with filtration and the UV filter will help avoid that. RayJay is very successful with his approach though so it's always interesting to see how many different ways work and how often the same approach works for one person but not for another. I am also looking forward to seeing how Ace's Keisel works out!

And Paul is eating like a pig :( Cheryl said they stop eating a couple of days before giving birth. Boohoo. I might end up with actual goldfish in my Gucci goldfish bowl...

[BSJF]

I'm sure he will play dad sometime if not tomorrow.

[Europhyllia]

Okay Cheryl says the skimmer should go on the fry tank so here it is:
12957

[justahobby]

This looks amazing! If it was even possible to doubt your passion to the hobby this would certainly prove otherwise. Fingers crossed for a new papa. So seahorse gurus rebuke the idea that skimmers are linked to gas bubble disease?

[Europhyllia]

Almost 7 am. The lights will come on in a bit and the waiting begins. This will be day 14 for us (if he really is pregnant -which is not certain). He could give birth as late as day 18 or so.

Wish me luck!

[Europhyllia]

Oh and the skimmer thing: yes, it is no longer believed that skimmers cause gas bubble disease. In fact good water quality etc may prevent it so skimmers and UV filters and anything you can do to improve water quality and reduce pathogens is now in favor

[justahobby]

You're getting close! Maybe they will be thanksgiving babies. Why do you say it is not certain if he is preggo? No major change in belly size?

[Europhyllia]

It looks slightly bigger to me but I've only had him for a few weeks so don't know him too well. Cheryl says with some newbies you may not be able to tell at all.
Nothing for today. He's eating breakfast...

[Europhyllia]

Hoping for some fry tomorrow!

Maybe I'm just fooling myself though. Here he is tonight. What do you think? Pregnant or not pregnant.
If they come up with sticks for fish to pee on I'll by some :)

http://www.dominopads.com/Paul1120.jpg

[justahobby]

His pouch definitely looks different ...... or has it always?

[Europhyllia]

I don't know. I thought it looked bigger. But maybe I was just wishing it was bigger? And the longer I stare at it, the less I am sure of what it looked like before...

[justahobby]

We'll know in a few days!! And if not this time, you won't be caught off guard without the equipment. I hope you can get a video of the babies bursting out. It is crazy cool to watch.

[funkyseamonkey]

Soooo......you can't leave us hanging like this.......do we have baby horses?

[Europhyllia]

No. His pouch looks smaller now and he seems to be ready to mate again so if he was pregnant it must have been a small batch and lost in filtration already :(
Maybe next time...

[funkyseamonkey]

:(

[Europhyllia]

pouch is completely deflated now and he's flushing in. I guess he gave birth before the lights came on and whatever small batch was there was filtered by now.

Let's see what happens in the next three weeks.

[justahobby]

Sad Day. No signs in the sump?

[Europhyllia]

I've looked but the first thing they'd go to is my massive skimmer. my filter sock slipped off... Sorry :(

[Europhyllia]

On the plus side Patches seems really round and hopefully full of eggs and she's being very friendly right now so maybe another shot at it in a couple of weeks?

[Gseclipse02]

maybe it had gas or air ?

[Europhyllia]

not gas or air. that would be an indication of a problem. I am pretty sure he does not have that problem. they can hold water but when they do that it's usually something the expel frequently -not a steady growth over a longer period

[Europhyllia]

He is really getting big this time around (Cheryl already said he'd be carrying more the second time) and still has over a week to go! :)

[edshas2]

cool good luck on this batch, good thread

[BSJF]

I'm getting excited...

[alton]

Good luck Karin, oh yea did anyone mention pictures yet?

[Europhyllia]

no picture worthy developments since page 21 alton! ;)

[alton]

He is really getting big this time around (Cheryl already said he'd be carrying more the second time) and still has over a week to go! :)

How do we know we don't have a picture? Kids on break so just enough time to pick on you.

[Europhyllia]

Still no fry and I am gone all day tomorrow so I decided to move Paul to the fry tank just in case...

(I hope this isn't too stressful on him!)

http://www.dominopads.com/papafry1.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/papafry2.jpg

[CoryDude]

He'll be ok. I still love your fry setup.

[hobogato]

i am biting my nails for you!

[Europhyllia]

He'll be ok. I still love your fry setup.

Thanks Cory. I do too. So much filtration possible with this type of set up. And I added an RKL now to control the temperature and pumps (70 degrees and under and the heater gets powered on, 72 degrees and above and the fan gets powered on, etc.)

I made the standpipe modular so water level is very high since Paul is tall. One he goes back to the DT and the fry are in there (if ever!) I take the top half off the stand pipe to temporarily lower the water level for increased food density. It's my first time. So it's entirely possible I'm planning this all wrong...

[funkyseamonkey]

I'm super excited! Hurry up Paul! I want to see patches babies

[Europhyllia]

http://www.dominopads.com/firstfry.jpg

seven little seahorses were born tonight. Looks like only 3 are doing really well though. I'll do what I can but I'll be surprised if any survive.

[Europhyllia]

boo I guess hoarding rotifers isn't a good idea. they were multiplying like crazy but now nothing is moving in any of my buckets! :(
Looks like I lost ALL rotifers. Should have taken that 'splitting the cultures' more seriously...

[funkyseamonkey]

:( do they always have Such a small number of babies?

[Europhyllia]

his pouch still looked big so I am leaving him in the fry tank for now. sometimes they have a few warning babies and then more later. normally it's several hundred! (because Reidi fry are so tiny but numerous

[hobogato]

cheryl said it is common for a few to get out prematurely. the big release is coming...

[Europhyllia]

yup, lots more today. Not in the hundreds but maybe 50 or so I'd guess?
http://www.dominopads.com/fry2.jpg

[BSJF]

Congrats karin. Yes you have to split that culture regularly or all you end up with are old farts that don't multiply!

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. I put Paul back into the DT and reduced the water level in the fry tub. Fed them their first rotis. I can't tell if they are getting any or not. :(

Paul and Patches are already mating again! Craziness. So more fry before the end of the month...

[leliataylor]

Yes more fry soon. Each brood becomes larger and stronger. Hang in there it does get easier.