Accro Polyp Extension

[jrnannery]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1959916

Please check this link out, and give me your thoughts. i am really very curious about this.

Thanks
Richard

[jrsatx20]

or read it here. sorry richard hope u dont mind i posted it here.

Hey everyone. A quick run-down...

29g BioCube
Nanotuners 4 bulb upgrade run act and 50/50 for 9 hours, add two 10ks for 7.5 hrs
Back
1-10k 36w PC
1-50/50 36w PC
1-10k 36w PC
1-Actinic 36w PC
Front

Flow will be worked on in the coming days

20lbs LR
10lbs LS

Livestock:
Large (3") PJ cardinal
Yellow Clown Goby
Green Clown Goby
1.5" Firegoby
Regal Tang (dime-nickel size)
Lawnmower Blenny (2")
Cleanup crew - Hermits, snails, assorted

Small zoa colonies and frags (front in sand)
Small Acan Lord and Frogspawn (front in sand)
Red and Green Monti frags, low, front/middle, excellent PE and slow growth
Hollywood Stunner chips, low, front/middle, nice long sweepers

Bali Tri-color, full color, growing slowly, shows neon polyps under blue moonlight only
Unknown Green sps, great color, slow growth, no polyps at all
rescued SPS colony from LFS (originally a Fish Heads frag) totally browned out and massive RTN at time of purchase, now fluorescing under moonlghts (more and more all the time), fragged and visibly gaining a nice green hue
Sunset Millepora frag, 1", 1 week old, absolutely no extension whatsoever
Bird'snest, full PE, growing like crazy

ALL ABOVE SPS under middle/back, back lighting

Ammonium: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:0
Phosphate: 0
°dKH: 11
Cal: 500
Sp. Gravity: 1.0205 (Marineland Swing-style, calibrated)
Temp: 80°F (79-82)
Magnesium is untested, need a kit.

I dose Kent products in the proper amount and intervals, and run Fuel in the tank for the corals.

Why no polyp extension, day or night except on the montis and the birdsnest? Shouldn't the Mille have done SOMETHING by now? The brown accro re-coloring is a great sign, but what can I do better?

I will be stepping up to an LED upgrade kit from RapidLED specifically for the BioCube, but I know that the lighting is good enough for now...all bulbs 1 month old, by the way.

Thanks
Richard

[justahobby]

Milli's are a tough one that I could not conquer. A few things I see though....

Your swing arm should be mildly accurate at best and repulsive at worst. If you are going cheap (like me), get the floating glass kind and compare it to a hydrometer because they can be off too, but once you know by how much you should be safe. Whereas w/ the swing arm your results will vary with every testing.

What brand of test kits are you using?

There really is so much you can do w/ PC bulbs. IIRC millies are more light loving than most too. Your photo period is a bit short IMO

No skimmer?

Which kent products?

Fuel is vitamins and such but should be used in conjunction with actual food. Try cyclops or micro coral food.

Also, you will need to know what Mag is. It should stay pretty consistent so have an LFS test it for you so you have an idea.

Are you 2- parting or kalk dripping?

What is your PH?

Last but not least, Flow is really important. SPS not only like it, but it causes the skeleton to grow thicker vs. having weak, indirect flow and puny, weak skeleton.

[CoryDude]

Here's a few things that popped into my head when i read your rundown. If your acans, montis, zoes, etc are doing fine and your acros are not, I'd look at a few things. Since the easier stuff is doing fine, I'd look at lighting, flow, and filtration.

First off, I'd stop dosing most of your kent products asap till you know what's going on. What products are you using?

What is your in-tank flow situation right now. You post says your working on it.

Didn't see your filter setup listed. Are you using a sump with a skimmer and any other filter media?

Lighting could be the issue also. I have acros that thrive under 250w halides, but when I put them in my tank with the t5's they don't do well at all, even if I put them up near the top. If those frags you got came from a tank with halides, then they may not be getting the amount of light they're accustomed to in your tank.

Lastly, I lost all p.e. in my tank when I got AEFW. Have you been dipping your corals before they were placed in your tank?

[jrnannery]

Justin,

The swingarm is definitely getting replaced...not sure how much of an upgrade, but it will again be calibrated.

API Test kits

Most of the corals are 6" or less from the surface of the water.

No, no skimmer.

Kent Tech M, Tech CB, Strontium and Molybdenum, Essential Elements.

I feed the tank once a week with a cube of Reef Cuisine...I will begin to run with Eric Borneman's (sp) recipe either this weekend, or next.

By the way, if the corals do not extend polyps, how can they feed, other than zooanth., of course? Is there a response to a food item in the water?

Thanks
Richard

[jrnannery]

Stop dosing--willing to give it a try
Flow--Hydor flo blowing generally in the direction of corals, Koralia nano behind rocks, MJ 1200 as return pump witha hydor as well
Filter--biological only for now...no floss, no foam
Lighting--I would really like a crack at the PAR meter going around
Bugs--fresh RO washing, visual inspection with magnifying glass. I have a plan in the works that will address this primarily.

I had a really good response for ya, but it got deleted when I clicked a link. Sorry.

[CoryDude]

First off, I'd stop using all of those kent products. Almost all of those are made up when you do water changes. The tech-m is good for a splash here and there.

Without a skimmer, I don't think you're going to have much luck with sps. I know there are successfull sps tanks out there that run skimmerless, but I'd bet my last dollar that there are more failures than successful ones.

The acro zooxanthellae get most of their food from photosynthesis. I don't think your pc setup is giving them the energy they need.

I think the lack of of skimming and adequate par are going to be your major hurdles with sps.

[CoryDude]

That's not to say you can't keep sps. There are some like the monti's that are more forgiving, but I know for a fact that milles and the tri-color validas need a lot of light. I have mine up near the top and I have 250w halides with vho bulbs.

[jrnannery]

In the works:

Lights - http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-71/20-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

Flow - http://hydorkoralia.com/hydor-koralia-evolution/

Filtration - a totally new rock setup, sandless bottom, and a modified version of this:http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb440/jrnannery/RefugiumModel1-1.jpg

[justahobby]

Yes, food in water will trigger a feeding response. Night time is when they naturally open up for food in the wild. Most coral collected from the wild seem to be reluctant to open up and accept food at first. Probably from all the stress. Looks like you are on the right track with your LED's, fuge, and flow upgrades in the works.

[hobogato]

the other thing (aside from what justin and cory already mentioned) that jumps out at me is the fish list. clown gobies are notorious for perching on acros and even killing small patches to lay their eggs, so they may be hovering on the corals and keeping them from extending their polyps fully.

[ismvel]

In the works:

Lights - http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-71/20-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

Not a bad kit, but if I may make a recommendation. This light comes with a hanging kit, and a box, and quiet fans so no eyesore, unless you are planning on putting the retro kit all in a canopy of some sort. It is only about $25 more. I have one and love it, and am seeing some growth in my corals.

http://reefkoi.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=840

There are a couple of us who have this light on the forum...Myself and Firewater that I know of for sure. Alexdmg was over here last night and loved it, said he is planning on picking one up, so you can ask him what he thought of it as well.

[justahobby]

Whoa, good point Ace. I totally missed that and went through that problem with a clown goby and milles. They can do a lit of damages really quickly.

[jrnannery]

the other thing (aside from what justin and cory already mentioned) that jumps out at me is the fish list. clown gobies are notorious for perching on acros and even killing small patches to lay their eggs, so they may be hovering on the corals and keeping them from extending their polyps fully.

Yes, I follow that...but all 10 accro frags at the same time? I will certainly check to see where and about how often the little yellow hangs out...the green disappears into the rocks for days at a time. I guess he thinks he's camoflaged and on some sort of mission. Nothing else really but hermits go anywhere near the accros.

Ismael...nice suggestion, but I need to keep the canopy on. I have a three year old, and he likes coins. Besides, the kit in the link installs completely into the stock canopy.

Thanks, guys, and keep it coming. This isn't here just to solve my own problem, but maybe get someone else a little help that hasn't asked for it.

By the way...it was pointed out that I should be testing for mag. I will head to AD tonight to pick up a kit.

[jrnannery]

Good (terrible) news!! I think i can explain my accros lack of PE...my yellow clown goby.

After a long observation period, I can tell you that it roosts in every piece of accro I have, rubs its abdomen on every piece of accro I have, nips at SOMETHING on every piece of accro I have, presumably the polyps as they try to extend.

I didn't want to believe it, as they are one of my absolute favorites, but, this guy has got to go. That's life in the BioCube, I guess.

I'll keep y'all posted.

[justahobby]

In my exp. They are safe to keep with digis. The bite off the knobby parts of acros and milleporas. I've been meaning to pick up a clown goby. I would be interested in yours. They come in stores so emaciated that I hate endorsing their sale.

[jrnannery]

My experience with them (one prior) is very positive...the last one lived his full lifespan, as I know it, which is 2+ years. This little monster though...!

I would call you asking for him first, 'dibs!' I will make arrangements for his pickup. Need to catch him first, though. Its sex is completely unkown to me, by the way. "His" is just...flippant, I guess.

[justahobby]

Haha, well I should say if you don't strangle "him" first, I would like first dibs.

[jrnannery]

Heres the little guy here:
http://www.maast.org/album.php?albumid=254&attachmentid=10695
http://www.maast.org/album.php?albumid=254&attachmentid=10694
http://www.maast.org/album.php?albumid=254&attachmentid=10693

If you look closely, you can see the fangs.
And the horns...