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View Full Version : Let's talk about PAR and PUR!



Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 12:08 PM
Had so much fun exchanging ideas in Allan's thread that I wanted to start another and get some ideas there.

I also have an ulterior motive to it too. Stephen got me hooked on LEDs. I am loving the light we made for my seahorse tank.

I am considering saving up for an AI LED fixture for the big reef tank. :wub:

The question is whiter or bluer and while reading my way across the internet I came across some really good articles.

Here's the one by Sanjay of course with the focus mainly on PAR:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature2

So of course I need to know what PAR is and how much I need. Found some great info on this blog:
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/08/par-and-reef-aquarium-lighting-what-is-par.html

PAR is important because it is roughly the measurement of how much usable light energy is available to your corals, anemones, clams - your reef aquarium in general!
...
This greatly depends on the species of coral or other photosynthetic animal, but the acceptable range is roughly 100-450 PAR, measured as PPF (which most PAR meters do). Obviously the low end is preferred by low light corals such as mushroom corals and elegance corals, whereas the high end would be acceptable for shallow water 'SPS' species. For those of you with nature or planted freshwater aquariums, the PAR requirements of plants tend to be lower: between 20-200 PAR, depending on the species.

Of course it's never that simple and so I got to worry about PUR

The wavelength of the light must be considered as well, especially in broad-spectrum bulbs (for instance, 'daylight' bulbs) and in LED lighting (http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/led-lighting/). PUR (http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/09/pur-and-reef-aquarium-lighting-what-is-pur.html) (photosynthetically usable radiation (http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/09/pur-and-reef-aquarium-lighting-what-is-pur.html)) is a measurement that's desirable to have with LED lighting in addition to PAR, and in fact, matters more due to the large amount of photosynthetically unuseable light produced by LEDs.

More on that here:
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/09/pur-and-reef-aquarium-lighting-what-is-pur.html

PUR stands for Photosynthetically Useable Radiation. PUR differs from PAR (http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/08/par-and-reef-aquarium-lighting-what-is-par.html) because the basic definition of PAR is any light in a specific frequency range. PUR is the usable portion of PAR, and different photosynthetic species will have a different PUR range to which they respond.
For example: you are given a choice to illuminate your coral with two different lights, each with the same PAR value. However, one of these lights produces energy that peaks at 450nm, or the blue spectrum, and one peaks at 590nm, or the yellow spectrum. For zooxanthellae in your coral's tissue, the light peaking at 450nm will have greater PUR than the light that peaks at 590nm, although the PAR numbers are the same.

I wonder what the PUR range is for plants? Anybody know?

This article almost makes me want to get the 'bluer' LEDs. lol:
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/11/comparing-leds-theyre-not-metal-halides.html

Guess I'll have to look up the spectographs for the bulbs used...

z28pwr
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 12:25 PM
The wife has been bugging me about moving to LED's and I'm not yet ready to ditch all the MH's we have and have been looking into the same thing. According to this report over 70% of the light produced by the AI LED is in the PUR wavelength used by plants.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/10/review

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 12:28 PM
hahahahaha, sorry about the leds

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 12:30 PM
Just as a note, that article was done with the first generation "white" AI modules. They now have the SOL super blues (what I run) that have 2 blues and 1 white per led puck

The wife has been bugging me about moving to LED's and I'm not yet ready to ditch all the MH's we have and have been looking into the same thing. According to this report over 70% of the light produced by the AI LED is in the PUR wavelength used by plants.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/10/review

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 12:34 PM
Thanks! That was back in 2007. I think the AI Sol fixtures use the new Cree XP lenses now which theoretically should have only gotten better.
Interesting point about PUR not being that big of a deal in situations where light is not in 'low-light (photosynthetically sub-saturating) intensities'

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 12:38 PM
yes, the old AI's used the XR series. The new SOL series modules use XP series emitters

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 08:09 PM
Any closer to an idea between blue/white modules? It is fact that the sol super white module would produce higher PAR numbers because the XP series whites have higher lumens output then the XP blues. But in my opinion the PAR levels are alot higher then what is needed in most cases. I have been running the SOL super blue modules and they produce plenty for my SPS. I personally think that the super white and even the super blue modules can produce enough light to make alot of soft/LPS coral start to lose color without dimming them down so I don't think PAR is a big issue. I vote blues just because with all the DIY builds I have messed with I would never build a fixture with anything but a 1:2 xpg white/xpe blue combo. More whites would just leave you with a 8-10K output if whites/blues are ran at the same input power. Now that is only for the xpg cool whites, the warm and neutral white emitters have similiar output to the xpe blues/royal blues so you could get away with a 1:1 ratio. One more thing to thing about is the SOL super whites have XPG cool whites and XPE blues, the SOL super blues have XPG cool whites/ XPE blues/ XPE royal blues. Ok I rambled on enough, see what happens when you get me started talking about leds :)

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 08:39 PM
I am leaning towards the Sol Blue just because the extra type of blue would lead me to believe a wider color range would be covered.
From the descriptions on ReefGeek's site it appeared to me that the whites on the SOLs are 6500k whites (makes me happy lol)
I would have thought those would be in the neutral white range versus cool white?

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 08:42 PM
They use XPG cool whites. Depending on the current applied to the emitter they range from 6500-8300k. If I remember right.

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 08:45 PM
they get 'warmer' at lower power?

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 08:52 PM
Yes, the higher the input amperage the higher the output kelvin rating. I was wrong, they are 5000-8300K

White
CCT (K)
Max Current (mA)
Viewing Angle (°)
Standard Min. Flux @ 350 mA
Product Status
Cool
8,300 – 5,000
1500
125

139 lm
130 lm
122 lm
114 lm

Active

txg8gxp
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 08:52 PM
well that quote didn't work the way I wanted. Here is the link
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut937

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 09:00 PM
HM... that's almost swaying me back to SOL white and plan on running it at 60 or 70%...

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 09:01 PM
back on topic it would be cool to see spectrographs of the same white LED at different inputs to see how PUR changes!

since PUR is highest around that blue range for corals I am wondering if the higher PAR of the whites is offset by a potentially higher PUR of the blues especially when the whites are at their lower k ratings. Or do the whites contain a blue spike but since blue is less visible to the human eye the white may contain the same blue spike but the additional wavelengths in the whites make them less visible?

BSJF
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 09:44 PM
Well, an interesting read after a few glasses of wine. And I was wondering what Karin was doing for New Years Eve. Should have known she would be studying something new and fun. good night.

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 09:50 PM
Yeah I know I'm lame. We even already did the Fireworks: hand held sparklers and roman candles. Nothing too noisy.
Big plan for the night is to have the kids in bed by 10. lol

See you next Year Lorraine ;)

Europhyllia
Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 10:30 PM
spectral graphs of the Cree XP whites:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-G.pdf

spectral graphs of the Cree XP:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-E.pdf (page 6)

Europhyllia
Sat, 1st Jan 2011, 02:32 AM
The use of improper bulbs, lack of maintenance, and extended lighting hours are contributors that can lead to all sorts of algae problems. While these organisms do well in the 665 to 680 nanometer (nm) wavelength range, they are quite active bewteen the 560 and 620 nm range as well.

The first problem would be that corals don't really like longer wavelength light in high proportions. The second is that we will usually see the cyanobacteria appear. Cyanobacteria thrive on light in about the 525 nm range, where they have optimal growth. This is of course the red cyano, and not the blue-green, which thrive in conditions where the light is much longer, say in the 600 nm range. So, the first thing when one sees the ol' cyano appear to think back to when they last changed the bulbs.

Did a quick search for cyano's PUR. lol
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diatomandslimemicroalgae/a/redslimealgae.htm
http://ozreef.org/library/articles/cyanobacteria.html

With that said the SOL Blue is starting to look more attractive than the SOL White...

Night, night and a happy new year!
:)

BSJF
Sat, 1st Jan 2011, 08:34 AM
Big plan for the night is to have the kids in bed by 10. lol


I beat your kids to bed! Nice dinner at 7:00 and webcam with a good friend from Utah after that, then bed.

ramsey
Sat, 1st Jan 2011, 08:46 AM
HM... that's almost swaying me back to SOL white and plan on running it at 60 or 70%...

I have the SOL whites and run them at 55-60% white, blues at 100%. Everything seems be doing really well under them. I have a few of my SPS and all my clams 32" - 36" under the fixtures and everything's doing well. I'm getting pretty rapid SPS growth. I think it's a combination of the LEDs and biopellets. Also, I like the color temperature just fine. I think it looks more blue than 14k but less than 20k just to give you an idea. Of course, the temperature changes with more white but I don't see why you'd ever run the white at 100%. With all this said, I probably would have gone for the SOL blues if they were out when I bought but I'm more than happy with the SOL whites. You can also change out the pucks to use SOL blue pucks if you ever wanted to. Doesn't seem worth it to me, but it is possible.

Europhyllia
Sat, 1st Jan 2011, 08:57 AM
Hm. We are going to have to schedule a ramsey/txg8xgp tank tour...

BSJF
Sun, 2nd Jan 2011, 09:05 AM
And now you have me looking at LED lighting for my 65g tank back in Utah. Sigh! I don't even get to see the tank but once or twice a year. I currently run 2 150w MH and 2 t5s and its about time to change out the bulbs. Crazy?

Europhyllia
Sun, 2nd Jan 2011, 09:14 AM
lol

LED is expensive. It's nice. But probably too pricey to buy it for a tank you only see once a year IMO.

If it's what you want to do however then how about you come out every 3 months and look at my tank and put an LED light on that. It would be 4 times the viewing!

BSJF
Sun, 2nd Jan 2011, 10:03 AM
Tempted.

BSJF
Sun, 2nd Jan 2011, 10:04 AM
What I should do (but won't) is get another tank and put horsies in it!

Europhyllia
Tue, 4th Jan 2011, 08:20 PM
Does anybody know anything about a shift in spectrum over time on LEDs?
I realize they have a really long lifespan - but for how long do they maintain that initial (desirable) spectrum?

Europhyllia
Sun, 23rd Jan 2011, 08:40 AM
Here are some interesting graphs I found in regards to SOL White versus SOL Blue
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/aqua-illumination-ai-led-sol-blue/

http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/AI-Sol-Blue.png