Lost 7 fish, discouraged and about ready to give it up.

[DarkHorseMBA]

Okay, after the loss of 7 fish I'm discouraged about ready to give up. Sorry for the long post, I'm trying to provide all the information. Can anyone offer some help, or direct me to what I might be missing?

Equipment
75g, display tank
Refugium with Cheto and DSB
Skimmer, AquaC Urchin Pro with a Mag3 pump
Main return pump, Quiet1one 3000 @760gph
Power heads, 2x 425gph koralia

In the tank
80lbs of rock that is growing coraline
CUC, ~40 assisted snails from reef cleaners and 9 dwaf hermits
2" of aragonite sand/crushed coral mix

Water parameters
The tank cycled about 2 months ago, since then all reading have been stable. I do 15% water changes every 2 weeks, I use only RO/DI water. Today's reading, typical for my tank.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 5
Ph: 8.0

Here's what has happened
I added 3 fish, a royal gramma and 2 clowns. The gramma would not eat and after a few days disappeared. The fist clown died in week later, could not tell why. The second clown died a week after that, turned grey and it was a goner. Talked to a guy at the LFS and he explained that my Ph was too low at 7.8, the fish can't maintain a slime coat, and advised me to add a buffer to bring it up to 8.0 - 8.2. He further advised me to add sea labs #28 once the Ph was up, to maintain it. I started adding Kent Pro Buffer and the Ph came up to 8.0/8.2 ( hard to tell the colors are so similar). I added the #28 block and checked the parameters, everything was good added new fish.

I purchased 5 assorted damsels, they were different colors black, brown, striped, and two were blue. The LFS said they were all different kinds of damsels and would live fine together, they were all in the same tank at the shop. Brought them home, acclimated them over 90 mins and added them to the tank. The next day they seemed to be doing well and were eating, except one shy one that stayed away from the others. I did not notice any chasing or aggression. On day number three the black fish seemed to have swollen eye, and the shy one was missing. Come home today from work today, and they are all gone except one. Found a dead blue damsel on the sand, but no sign of the others, I assume the CUC got them. Fed the tank and lone surviving fish is eating well and seems fine.


So I've lost a total of 7 fish thus far, and I'm about ready to give up. There are few things going right. The CUC is working well, I have Zoa and Mushroom int he tank that are doing well.

So what the heck is going on? It seems like my water is fine and I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to do. Could my new fish have been killed off by the surviving fish? Is there something I'm missing?

DarkHorseMBA

[Europhyllia]

I have no idea why this is happening but wanted to say I am sorry that it's so bad. To be honest I have kept tanks at 7.8 for extended periods of time with fish spawning, growing fat and old with no problem. I don't think 7.8 is the cause of death.
What's your alkalinity?

[SoLiD]

I know what you mean. It's a heart breaking ordeal to lose any fish let alone 7. The only thing I can tell you is to try slow down and try to add them in smaller numbers like 2 at a time. It seems that nothing good in this hobby happens fast. :)

[ramsey]

What's your S.G. and how are you measuring it?

[DarkHorseMBA]

I have no idea why this is happening but wanted to say I am sorry that it's so bad. To be honest I have kept tanks at 7.8 for extended periods of time with fish spawning, growing fat and old with no problem. I don't think 7.8 is the cause of death.
What's your alkalinity?

I have not been testing alkalinity. What should it be?


DarkHorseMBA
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[DarkHorseMBA]

What's your S.G. and how are you measuring it?

1.024 I'm using a refractometer.


DarkHorseMBA
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[DarkHorseMBA]

I know what you mean. It's a heart breaking ordeal to lose any fish let alone 7. The only thing I can tell you is to try slow down and try to add them in smaller numbers like 2 at a time. It seems that nothing good in this hobby happens fast. :)

I thought to only add 2 at time, the LFS recommend 7! I went with 5.


DarkHorseMBA
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[Mr Cob]

Sorry for your loss. Finding balance in a new tank can be challenging which is why so many people don't stick it out in this hobby. Once you get past the 6 month mark or the better yet the one year mark, you'll be coasting.

Royal Grammas in my experience have been territorial and never do well for me in smaller tanks unless alone...perhaps it was a bad specimen or just not up for the challenge of sharing a tank with 2 clowns. Clowns are normally hardy because they are damsels but I have found in my experience that they can be difficult to keep in a new tank...but that's just me because others say the opposite, but for me personally I don't add clowns to any tank under 6 months. I wouldn't sweat the 4 damsel loss. Those things are hit or miss. And, yes, one damsel could be the culprit for killing the rest...not sure if that's the case or not but it's possible.

So, perhaps it's nothing and more of just bad luck with a new tank. Personally if you do not plan to keep it a damsel tank, I'd get rid of the single damsel and add a blenny, perhaps a lawnmower blenny if you have algae growing. Then maybe a cardinal and just take it slowly and add only peaceful fish. A small yellow tang would do well in a 75g.

If it is something, I wish you luck in finding it but it sounds as though you are ahead of most new hobbyist in that you seem to have a grip on what it takes to have a saltwater tank as evident in your thorough explanation.

Later dude.

[Mr Cob]

I thought to only add 2 at time, the LFS recommend 7! I went with 5.


DarkHorseMBA
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Well, that's because you were adding damsels. If it was anything else then "yes" one or two at a time...but if all the same species or "damsels" then they needed to be added all at once otherwise you would never be able to effectively add anymore due to their aggression and being territorial. But, sometimes even adding them all at once does not work and only the strongest few or "one" will make it. Damsels are hardcore!

[Scream311]

Well first off id like to say I feel you on the loss of fish. We all at one point or another lost a few. It happens when you take something from the wild and try and keep it stuffed in a smaller environment that is not as perfect as the sea.

I also wanted to mention that I've seen your posts these last few months since the begining of your build and you've been doin everything the correct way. But you may just wanna slow down a bit. I know you wanna see some life in that tank but when you set up a new build it takes time for everything to FULLY cycle. I waited 6 months on my first tank after losing Hundreds of Dollars worth in fish !

Good Luck and Don't Give Up ! You Have a Great Support Team here on MAAST

[electricrcplane]

Also I'd say stop by Gabe's he is on the corner of Evers and 410 and is probably the most knowledgeable LFS in San Antonio. I agree with Mr. Cob that damsels are hardcore and plain mean. I'd also probably take that sealab #28 block out of the tank as I don't think they add much benefit, (I used them when I first got into saltwater and they didn't seem to provide any benefit). Just use the Kent buffer to keep your PH in check.

[txmaverickmh]

I would also take your water to a LFS and let them test your water for you.

[TexasTodd]

1. Which LFS did you go to?
2. Don't add any buffer unless it's a small amount of kalkwasser in your replacement evaporated water, and you probably don't need this now either.
3. What are you feeding? How often?
4. Go to Gabe's.
5. add only 1-2 fish and wait at least 3 weeks before you add more and add mellow fish first.

[Regric25]

did you add live rock or was it dry rock? If it was live rock maybe there is a hitchicker thats killing the fish like a mantis or something. You said you didnt find the bodies. Sorry for your loss dude!

[kkiel02]

Yeah keep your head up. I had alot of trouble with my clowns when starting also. Remember to always ask the LFS when they got the fish in and ask if you can see them eat to make sure they are healthy. Also, I would wait a little while until you get new fish just in case it is a disease. Better to be safe than sorry.

[ismvel]

As with everyone else here, sorry to hear about your loss. This hobby is all about learning, reading, and taking it slow. I know your pain because I just lost about 80% of my corals from a tank transfer which equates to a couple of $$$$ (to say the least)....i too was disappointed and feeling down. But if this is something you really want to do, don't give up. There are always gonna be ups and downs in this hobby. It is rewarding when you finally get your tank to where you want it or envisioned it to be. Just take this lump and keep trekking.

[sampsonndelila]

Don't give up. I crashed a fully loaded 125.

[Bill S]

Wow.

OK, I'm going to sum up some GREAT advice given above:

TAKE A ZIPLOCK BAG OF WATER, NO AIR, TO YOUR LFS AND HAVE THEM TEST IT. This could be as simple as a poorly calibrated refractometer. I can't tell you how many thousands of fish a refractometer has killed. In any case have them do a complete test of your water.

That may NOT get everything. Something as simple as a penny in the water, stray current, soap, a beer, etc. could also play a role.

[aquasport24]

Sorry for your loss, just let your tank goes fishless for about 8 weeks and quarantine all new fishes in a quarantine tank for atleast 2 weeks before adding to the display tank.

[ShAgMaN]

Sorry for your loss, just let your tank goes fishless for about 8 weeks and quarantine all new fishes in a quarantine tank for atleast 2 weeks before adding to the display tank.

Totally agree with this. Run your tank fish-less for at least a month or two. Then put in green chromis - there hardy and less aggressive. Good thing is you haven't wasted a lot of $ on fish - hang in there- It's worth it!

[CoryDude]

Nothing new to add here that hasn't already been said. My 60 gallon killed every fish I put in there and my tank parameters were the same as yours. In order, I lost a clown pair, a lemonpeel angel, a flame angel, another ocellaris clown, and finally a purple firefish. Then, after waiting a month or so, I tried a 4th clownfish and he made it, then a flameback angel, then a watchman goby, yada yada yada. Point is I did nothing different between my failures and successes.

Also, and this may not be the case, but try a fish from a different lfs. Sometimes, even a good store can get a bad batch of fish.

[DarkHorseMBA]

Wow.

OK, I'm going to sum up some GREAT advice given above:

TAKE A ZIPLOCK BAG OF WATER, NO AIR, TO YOUR LFS AND HAVE THEM TEST IT. This could be as simple as a poorly calibrated refractometer. I can't tell you how many thousands of fish a refractometer has killed. In any case have them do a complete test of your water.

That may NOT get everything. Something as simple as a penny in the water, stray current, soap, a beer, etc. could also play a role.

Would that be me drinking the beer, or it in my water. I could be guilty of the former. :-)


DarkHorseMBA
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