What am I doing wrong?

[funkyseamonkey]

Ok so I have a 125 gallon tank with corals and fish. I have pc Bulbs...4 foot fixtures. each with a white bulb and then one actinic bulb. (fairly new lights too)
I have 2 canister filters on this tank. The corals that I have are tons of mushrooms, a few zoas, xienas, kenyan tree corals, a button coral, a brain coral, and a frogspawn thats still hanging on. (when I had this tank set up as a 45 it was doing awesome things were growing like crazy! and now that it is a 125 it seems like things are going wrong left and right. First my hippo tang got ick...that seems to be going away rather quickly and the only thing i did was a partial water change and went up on the amount of feedings (not quanity).....but it just seems like slowly my corals are doing worse and worse in this new tank. i have lost a few mushrooms, i have lost a button coral...and now the rest of my mushrooms seem to be closed up and not as open as usual. my salinity is at .24-.25.........
according to a test on the water i did today i tested for this and these are my results...

Phosphate- between 2.5 and 5.0 mg/l
Calcium was high
Nitrate was 10mg/L
Ph was 8.1
Ammonia was 0.3mg/L
Iron was 0mg/L
Nitrite was 0.3mg/L
Magnesium was 1500 ppm

I dont know what any of these mean or what they are supposed to be so if yall could please look it over and let me know what i need to do to fix any of them if they are off or what i can do to make things in the tank do better. I target feed the corals coral frenzy...The last water change was like 4 days ago. Let me know if you need me to be specific about anything else. Thanks for the help

SARAH

[Mike]

It is possible you are going through a small cycle as your ammonia and nitrites should be zero. It is also possible you have those readings due to die off in the tank. Keep doing the water changes and hopefully that will help.

[Europhyllia]

how old is the tank. There should be no detectable ammonia. Could it be that things got moved over a little bit before the cycle was complete?

If that's the case maybe a product that aids in establishing the biological filtration might help boost it/speed it up. I used BioSpira when I moved the seahorses for fer of not having enough biological filtration to move with the tank.

[Big_Pun]

what are you running in your canister filters to help bio filter. I have no experience or have read any info in running a reef tank on canisters. IMO a CPR hang on back refugium might help. also do you have a skimmer

[ramsey]

I agree with Karin, add some biospira to help establish bacteria. Do not feed the corals for the time being and reduce fish feedings if you can. It's most likely ammonia and nitrites that's stressing your fish and killing your coral. I would add the biospira ASAP before things further spiral out of control. I'd highly recommend learning about the nitrogen cycle to anyone in this hobby. It's pretty important.

[ramsey]

what are you running in your canister filters to help bio filter. I have no experience or have read any info in running a reef tank on canisters. IMO a CPR hang on back refugium might help. also do you have a skimmer

Another good point. How much live rock do you have in the tank?

[funkyseamonkey]

whats wrong with canisters? are they not good filters? and yes I have a skimmer on the tank. I will get some bacteria tomorrow at work and see how that goes.

[Europhyllia]

when you get the bacteria look at the bottom and see the manufacturing date. Try to get the newest one. The longer it's on the shelf the less fresh bacteria you got. I think it's supposed to have a shelf life of 6 month

[Big_Pun]

whats wrong with canisters? are they not good filters? and yes I have a skimmer on the tank. I will get some bacteria tomorrow at work and see how that goes.

canister are good mechanical filtration but a fuge is a great bio filter . I know most filters have some kind of porous media to house bacteria but I don't think it's enough like a fuge would be.

[funkyseamonkey]

I added the bacteria yesterday and today it doesnt seem to be helping it seems to be making things worse. Im going to do another water change tomorrow and see if that helps.

[justahobby]

The bacteria shouldn't make things worse... at worst, it wouldn't help. When i see ammonia on a tank that isn't brand new, I immediately suspect a water source contaminate. What kind of water are you using? And to reiterate, how much live rock do you have? How much and what are you feeding?

[Big_Pun]

yea that should help... but I'm still skeptical on canister filters being adequate for a reef tank. your best bet is to got with some kind of fuge/sump, you can get a hang on back overflow and sump from a lfs.

[tebstan]

I added the bacteria yesterday and today it doesnt seem to be helping it seems to be making things worse. Im going to do another water change tomorrow and see if that helps.

How did it make it worse? Cloudy water, test results?

What brand of test kit and water conditioner are you using? Some can cause false positives.

[Europhyllia]

Sorry it didn't improve the situation.
How long has the tank been running by the way (by itself) and when was the lifestock added to it?

[Europhyllia]

also: is anybody missing? If the tank isn't done cycling maybe something died somewhere and biological filtration is unable to catch up?

[alton]

I always believed in adding oxygen to your tank whether you use a trickle filter, a fuge which has water going over baffles like a water fall, or a bio wheel style filter, doesn't do much for bio load but the water going over the wheel adds oxygen. In your case taking water out through a closed and sealed cannister filter has no air exchange to enrich the water? I might be totally wrong but just my thoughts. On my 29 I run a emperor 400 with live rock rubble in one side and a filter pad on the other with great success.

[Big_Pun]

Alton has a very good point, try pointing a power head up to agitate the waters surface.

[ShAgMaN]

I think you'll need to give it some time. I'm missing how long your tanks been running and how much live rock you have, which is important.

One thing that's worked for me in the past...My frag tank was suffering even after water changes. I put a poly-filter in it and noticed results in a day. Not sure if it was some chemical or toxins in there, but it worked.

[Europhyllia]

I agree with Terry. Since it didn't resolve with a water change I'd add a PolyFilter for toxins and odd stuff and/or ChemiPure and/or Purigen for the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.
All of my tanks even the shrimp tank has some PolyFilter in it. It's just a little added insurance. I don't find it quite as effective for specifics but it's a good broadspectrum adsorbent.

[funkyseamonkey]

Ok to answer some questions. I dont know the pounds of live rock...there is a bunch in there but maybe its not enough.... The water that I am using is just tap water.
The fish all seem to be doing fine even the hipo with ich is getting better but all the corals just seem to be shrinking smaller and smaller every day. Im about to do another water test right now to see if things have changed and then do the water change i had planned for today. The tank was origianally a 45g and was set up for about 8 months...then i also had another 45 gallon that has been set up for years at a friends place...both were doing awesome until 2 weeks after they were put together in the 125...oh as fair as oxygen in the tank i do have one powerhead pointed at the surface creating bubbles as well as a big long airstone creating bubbles all across the back of the tank.

[funkyseamonkey]

Im feeding live and frozen brine. and mysis, and algea for the tang....2 times a day with a total of 2 cubes...but they have been melted and mixed together so that they get a mix of everything. the tap water is dechlorinated with api tap water conditioner and dechlorinator that says its good for both fresh and saltwater

[Europhyllia]

Sarah I think the amount of rock you have in your tank is fine.
Have you tested the water before you put in in the tank. I know some people can make it work very well with tap water but depending on your water supply you could also be getting a bunch of contaminates with it.

[funkyseamonkey]

the water is just from my apartment complex...should i do the next water change with bottled water? if so what kind? and i just retested the ammonia and the nitrites and it looks like the ammonia is the same and the nitirites actually a little higher...im so frustrated i dont know what to do.

[alton]

When our office was located off of west ave. the nitrates out of the tap where at 10ppm, since i do not use tap I never tested for other pollution? I was amazed at the amount of nitrates since the nitrates in my tank stayed below 5.

[funkyseamonkey]

so what does that mean dont use my tap water?

[Europhyllia]

Nitrites higher is a good thing this early in the cycle!
It means your cycle is moving along. Bacteria are converting ammonia into nitrite. it's what they are supposed to do. :)
You start out with ammonia, it's converted into nitrite and then into nitrate so as you go along in this process you will have high ammonia at first, then it will fall and nitrite will go up, then that falls and nitrate will go up.
If the bacteria wouldn't convert the ammonia into nitrite the ammonia would become higher and higher and have toxic effects on your livestock.
If you have access to your stores test kits you may double check your results with them. Sometimes kits can be off or expired.
So you still have ammonia but nitrite is going up so your bacteria are working. That's a good thing.
Another good thing is that nitrite isn't as dangerous to marine organisms as it is to freshwater organisms. It's the ammonia we are most worried about.

If it was me this is what I would consider doing:
*test my results with another test kit to rule out test kit error
*test the freshly made saltwater before you add it to the tank to make sure you are not adding contaminated water
*ease up on the feeding for just a day or two to get the ammonia thing under control
*add a poly filter (that's this product (link (http://www.poly-bio-marine.com/polyfilter.html)); some people confuse this with a regular polyester pad which won't do much for you). it's sort of a broad spectrum adsorbent that will retrieve a wide variety of stuff.
*if ammonia doesn't get better soon I would consider something like Seachem Prime (link (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html)) to detoxify the ammonia in the tank and perhaps use the Prime instead of the API dechlorinator product when you make new water
* to soak up ammonia, nitrite and nitrate you could add a bag of Purigen (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html)

Sit tight. Nitrite going up is a good sign. Hopefully the bacteria will be able to catch up with the ammonia soon and then the worst will be over!

[Europhyllia]

so what does that mean dont use my tap water?
Most of us use RO or RO/DI water.
You can buy RO water at some of those water dispensing stations (some are shaped like a windmill) or RO/DI from fish stores.
Many of us have their own RO/DI equipment and make our own RO/DI water.

Also see post above about a product like Prime if you don't have access to RO water.
HEB sells RO water bottled as Purified Water I believe.

[Regric25]

what kinds of light are you using? Is it stronger or weaker than the lights you had on the other tanks? Maybe the coals are suffering from light shock.

Good to hear your fish are doing better. I still recommend the mediciine for the ick that I posted in the other thread.

Canister filters are excellent mechanical filters but sumps seem to be really good in biological filtration/mechanical filtration/chemical filtration/oxygenation and its alot easier to clean out and easier to hide your equipment like the heater.

Also whats your temp at? Is it constant?

As far as water goes personally I would not use tap water. You jsut never know what kinds of toxins might be in the water. You can get RODI water from a LFS for cheap and they usually supply the bucket (If not you can get buckets from HD or Lowe's). For a 125 gallon tank I would invest in a RODI system though. It will save you ALOT of time and gas and trouble.

In the mean time keep a close eye on your water quality, temp, and keep up those water changes and keep us updated.

[ZeroHour]

Perhaps im off here but you combined the 2x45 gallons and transferred it all over to the 110 right. Did you by chance take the live sand from the 2x45s? If so could this be a mini-cycle from lower level sand sediment at this point.

[alton]

Perhaps im off here but you combined the 2x45 gallons and transferred it all over to the 110 right. Did you by chance take the live sand from the 2x45s? If so could this be a mini-cycle from lower level sand sediment at this point.
I missed this one Zero Hour is right on with this (quote from the 60's).
Also like Karin said if you are going to use tap test for everything in your tap water. You may find things like Nitrates, copper, pesticides, and other polutants which you now have in your tank. And once again like Karin said adding a poly filter will help you remove those items from your existing system.

[Europhyllia]

Oh I didn't catch that either!
Remember when I picked up the seahorses I wanted the rocks and the algae and the filters in the hang on filter and i even hauled away the tank water (lol) but I left the old substrate behind. When you disturb the substrate it would cause more trouble than benefit so I used dry sand in their set up to avoid any cycle there.

I was looking for a good graphic to explain why Nitrites would (should) go up after you detect ammonia and found this one on the LiveAquaria site:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/articles/la_ill_nitrogen_cycle2.gif
here's the complete link: http://www.liveaquaria.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=78

[ZeroHour]

sweet I finally contributed something...1 for 100 n sumthin.

[funkyseamonkey]

I took about 35 gallons of water from each 45 and then I only took the sand from one tank because it had lots of pods in it. I didnt take the sand from the other tank. I set up the 125 with 70 gallons of old water and the rest was new cycled salt water. I put fresh washed crushed coral as the substrate in the 125 and then mixed the sand in too so that the pods were still there.