Help!!!! Ick!

[funkyseamonkey]

help me please! I just came home to find my hippo tang covered in ich! he is acting fine but is covered in white spots and they are not bubbles. None of my other fish noticably have it. This is my first Ich outbreak with salt water. What do I need to do? I have a 125 gallon reef tank with 2 canister filters. Please tell me what has worked for you.
Thanks
Sarah

[FireWater]

Sarah, use the search function. There have been several posts in regards to ich and the treatments that folks have used. It has been a long time since I have had to deal with an outbreak so I am not a good source of info right now.

[Mr Cob]

Sarah...get informed here:

http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?49040-Myths-and-Facts-about-Marine-Ich.

If quarantining and treating properly is not for you then I would keep your fish happy and your water clean. Keep him fat and happy and he will be able to fight the ich and survive with it.

Hippos are notorious for ich outbreaks.

[Kristy]

Hi Sarah,
Blue hippos are pretty notorious for ich. They are really sensitive to it. Usually it shows up in response to some sort of stress, so it would be helpful to identify what that stressor might be. Is this guy new to your tank or has he been in there awhile? Any new fish just introduced that might be stressing him?

John is right that there is a TON of information about ich on this forum and the search function would be helpful. But let me add that if this has just shown up and he seems otherwise normal and is eating just fine, please do not do anything too drastic. Many times the "treatment" for ich will just put the poor fish under so much additional stress that it is worse than the original problem.

For a fish that is a chronic ich-magnet like this one, you may be better off doing very little. What we do when a fish shows signs of ich is to remove or correct the stressor whenever possible, and increase the frequency of the feedings. The idea is that a fat and healthy fish is going to have a strong immune system and be able to fight it off and rally to a quick recovery. Of course, you don't want to increase the overall amount of food you are introducing to your system too drastically or you'll have new problems, so just smaller feedings several times per day has done the trick for us. For instance, our fish usually get fed once to twice per day. When we are dealing with ich, we will increase the frequency to three or four smaller feedings (one of which is just Nori).

Definitely read up on ich in the history and feel free to ask questions. Mike and I will be around tomorrow and live five minutes away from you, so if you want to ask any questions or discuss further, just shoot me a pm.

[Kristy]

Ugh... Rob said it so much faster than I did!

[Mr Cob]

^lol, but you did it so much better!

[allan]

Sarah,

I've dealt with Ick over the last two years or so with a blue hippo. As Rob so succinctly and Kristy so verbosely stated the best thing to do is read up on the material here on the site and don't do anything drastic.

My hippo doesn't even get icky when I start messing around with the rockwork anymore... maybe a little. But I don't do anything about it. Keeping the fish relaxed is the key for the short term fix. The long term... well, you will read about that with Rob's link there.

There are two things that I'd like to know however. How long has your tank been up and running, and more importantly how long have you had the Hippo?

[funkyseamonkey]

I have had the hippo for at least 2 months. The tank was originally a 45 and that was running for 11 months. But in the past month I transfered the tank into a 125 and used fresh salt water for the rest. So baisically yall are saying that he may have it and as long as i keep him happy and healthy he should be fine? So none of the other fish are bothered by it? I dont see it on any of them but it starts in their gills so i cant see that. The link that was posted told me lots of facts and rumors but it didnt really give me a plan of attack. I dont need to quarintine him? Do I need to dose anything?

[Kristy]

Hey Sarah,
Returned your pm.

The SHORT version of my response (for anyone else that wants to know) is don't quarantine him as long as he continues to eat and the other fish seem ok. Just feed him more frequently and maybe consider adding a couple of drops of the garlic and the vitamins to his food (it might help, can't hurt). We use Howard's Garlic Juice from HEB seasoning aisle and Zoe by Kent from any LFS.

Yes, the changes in your rockwork could be all that it took to set off this little episode. Blue hippos are kind of chickens.

And some say that I'm VERBOSE!

[Gseclipse02]

i would really worry about the ick if you see the hippo breathing real heavy and if you can catch him with your hands .... i always keep a tank for this ......

all i do is feel up my spare fish tank with about 20g's of water put a power head in it and add copper to it


also in your 125g i would add a uv light i notice a huge diference with the tangs when i added the 58 watts worth

[allan]

Here's the rub with the QT, you have to catch him. That stresses out the hippo and everyone else at the same time. When the fish stresses it's coat gets a bit less slimy and that's when the ich gets a chance to latch on. The hippos are prone to it, I hear that yellow tangs are as well. I've got both, but don't have a problem.

Plan of attack is a bit long term. Take the fish out and put them into a QT bare bottom tank where you can keep them for about six weeks. The parasite will do it's stuff drop some eggs, but with sand for it mature in the cycle stops. The same thing will be happening in the Display Tank. No fish for the parasite to latch on in six weeks you have a clean and clear tank. I'ts a long term fix, but it's the most effective.

If your hippo is eating, do all you can to reduce it's stress. Feed often and keep him happy. Resist the urge to reach into the tank any more than absolutely necessary. It's tolerance will build as time goes by. If the hippo stops eating, then soak the food in garlic which will trigger a feeding response. The intent there is to keep the fish eating so that its immunity will be strong.

The only other time I see a small outbreak is when I stir the sand bed.... for the obvious reasons listed above.

[funkyseamonkey]

I add the vitamins to his food? how?

[funkyseamonkey]

The garilc wont mess with any corals right? also whats the ratio of garlic to the gallons? Like how many drops should i put in and how frequently?

[Gseclipse02]

The garilc wont mess with any corals right? also whats the ratio of garlic to the gallons? Like how many drops should i put in and how frequently?

soak the food in garlic you dont need much

edit/ it depends on what brand you get.... garlic extream has a higher concentrated level than the seachem version i belive so it really depends on what kind you get

[allan]

just a couple drops... sarah, if your hippo is eating you don't need it.

The vitamins are always a good idea, but you don't need the garlic if your fish are eating.

[Kristy]

The thing I want to emphasize about Allan's prescribed long term fix ^^^ is that the entire tank has to go fallow, meaning sit without ANY fish in it, for weeks and weeks. So when he says "take the fish out" he means to take ALL of your fish out of the tank and keep them in QT for weeks. I would have to consult the literature again for how long (life cycle / egg cycle / etc.), but I don't believe 6 weeks is considered long enough. I want to say that Kevin (kkiel02) kept all his fish in QT with copper and left his tank fallow for three months. The ich still came back when he returned the fish.

So.... our decision that has worked for us is to accept that "Ich Happens" (should make this into a bumper sticker) and just work at keeping our fish happy and healthy enough to weather it without incident. Also, we keep UV sterilizers on all three of our tanks and we believe this makes a difference. Some disagree.

The garlic and vitamins are not necessary, just something we do in case it helps. Just eyeball a couple of drops of each in their food. Won't hurt a thing and you really cannot go wrong.

[Regric25]

Lots of reefers have many different ways for treating ick. So ill give my .02. :)

I just got done with a fight with ick in my tank about a month ago. I have a 100 gallon tank and have 3 tangs 1 is a Hippo. ALL of my fish had a break out but the Tangs had it far worse than the others. I became VERY worried and my first thought was to put it in quarantine. I promptly contacted the good members of Maast (as you are) and they helped me through it. I was told not to quarantine the fish because that would stress the fish out even more and it could cause it to get worse. I increased the feeding frequency to keep up the appetite. If they are still eating you have a good chance for recovery on my opinion. I also purchased a UV "Turbo Twist UV" to kill the parasite (takes time, does not give instant results). You can get it from pretty much any LFS. I got mine from Gabe's. Gabe also sold me this 2 part medicine to feed the fish that won't hurt the corals or inverts in your tank. It's called Metronidazole (medicine) and Focus (binder) by Seachem. Its a powdery medicine you mix with food like mysis and it turns into a paste. I fed that to my fish every day for about 1.5 weeks. 2 days after starting treatment there were no signs of ick on any of my fish. Some people would disagree with me but this is what I did and it worked for me. If you have any questions send me a PM. Good Luck!

[BSJF]

How I treat it would depend on what else I planned to add to the tank. If you are still stocking the tank (like me last year), most anything you add is going to be stressed and subjective to ick. About 4 months after putting my tank up I took it apart to catch my fish, then did the fallow/hyposalinity treatment. Everything new was also treated before going in the tank. It is very hard not to reintroduce ick, use completely separate equipment (net, water hose, bucket...). 6 weeks may be enough, if done perfectly. However, one small mistake allows for another round. The better rule is 3 weeks after no sign of ick. So if on day 42 you see it, you aren't done.

[Europhyllia]

I don't keep tangs and it's been years since I had a case of ich in my tank (clownfish) so my take on it might not be that relevant but I am in the Ich Happens camp as well.
My approach would be to keep my fish in top shape (well fed, no stressors, etc.) and water quality up to par and trust that a healthy fish in a healthy environment can shake it.
I think completely avoiding any and all parasites, etc. would be nearly impossible.
Like Allan I'd not add any stuff to the food as long as he's eating. A lot of this stuff just washes off and ends up in the water anyway (just learned that on the seahorse board ;) ) impacting water quality more in a negative than positive way.
As far as treating it goes if it comes to that (in a separate system) I really like the Seachem products (like Paraguard, etc.), in fact any new critter that goes into the tank gets a dip in StressGuard as a preventative measure.

Good Luck. Hope he feels better soon.
Is everything stable in your tank (temps, salitnity, pH, all of the usual values (ammonia, alk, etc.))?

[BSJF]

I wouldn't tear the tank apart for a single fish. I would wait it out if the only sick fish in the tank is the hippo because his chances of survival are better if left alone. But, if the hippo dies, I probably wouldn't add another tang, especially a hippo. If there is a repeated or wide spread outbreak, that is when I have done the tank thing and would do again. I was losing everything I was adding and then my existing fish started got sick. At first it was just my prize male Bluespot who handled the stress of the trip to Texas without a problem, no ick because it wasn't in the new tank for him to get it. Being a male Bluespot who is courting a female every day of his life is stressful and a healthy environment is an essential part of his survival. Once ick got introduced, he succombed to it. Then my other Bluespot and Picasso pair started showing signs and I am sure I would have lost them too if I didn't take action when I did. By the time I did, the male was already not eating and the stress of moving him for treatment was too much. That was the process I went through in making my decision. I do regret not taking action sooner for my male Bluespot. He was the coolest fish I have ever owned. Like hippos, when you have Bluespots for over 10 years, you learn not o react to every stupid sign of a problem. But at the first sign of stress, I add MarineMax to the tank. Karin, I also love Stress Guard for new additions. Bluezoo got me hooked on that!

[funkyseamonkey]

ok Thanks for the info guys. he is still eating and the spots seem less today...all I have done is bumped up the feeding...I soaked the food in the zoe like you some said just because i had it...and i figured vitamins wouldnt hurt. I will keep yall posted.

[FireWater]

Most of my experience with it has been as long as the fish acts normal and eats then all will be good. The vitamins are to strengthen, the garlic is to get them to eat, main thing is to not freak the fish out anymore than it already is. Like most have told you - remove the fish as a last resort and remember that the ick will always be there in some form. Glad the fish appears to be better today, keep us updated.

[kkiel02]

I think you made the right choice. Ich always looks bad when an outbreak occurs but IME has never been fatal.

Velvet on the other hand- I would pull all the fish out ASAP and QT them.

Brook is just hard to beat no matter what you do as it kills so quick. Have formallin on hand if that happens. Luckily it usually only affects clowns so you dont lose your whole fish population.

[funkyseamonkey]

still doing good active and eating no problem...still has spots though..but less then before.

[Europhyllia]

I am sure it just takes time now :)

[kkiel02]

Dont be suprised if it flares up again especially if you introduce a new fish or change something in the tank. Just keep feeding him well and you ought to be good to go.