More Gain, less Pain

[Europhyllia]

I was thinking some more about Lorraine's thread and tried to figure out why I am much more into reefkeeping now than I have been before and I've been doing this for quite awhile now (maybe 12 or 13 years)

I think I figured it out. AUTOMATION. Yes I love gadgets but I also love the ease of maintenance that comes with it. And the improved health of the tank as a result of it.

This can be very simple like my streamlined water change routine (Thanks Alton you've made a great difference in my reefkeeping!). I can now change 30 gallons in 15 minutes without even spilling a drop.

Or more high tech like the ReefKeeperLite that not only controls my lights but also monitors pH and temperature to shut off power to heaters if one malfunctions and it gets too hot and starts dripping kalkwasser when the pH goes below a certain point.

I am excited how well the gorgonians are responding to my automated dry feed system and can't wait to see what happens once my refrigerated continuous feed system is set up for liquids.

I really like thinking it through and setting it up and then enjoying all that gain for much less pain than in the bucket schlepping days.

[alexdmg]

This can be very simple like my streamlined water change routine (Thanks Alton you've made a great difference in my reefkeeping!). I can now change 30 gallons in 15 minutes without even spilling a drop.

Interesting, how is it setup?

[Europhyllia]

It's just hoses and a pump really. :)
My saltwater is made in a 44 gallon Rubbermaid in the laundry room.
For water changes I siphon the water directly out of the tank into the drain in the laundry room (took me 30 feet of 5/8" hose but well worth it). I actually stick an old fishnet into the drain just in case I ever suck up anything of value.
I am at the tank just siphoning stuff of like I would if I did with buckets only that I don't carry buckets around anymore.
Then I roll up that hose and put it away.
Next I just clip the 3/4" hose that goes to the pump in the rubbermaid onto the sump with a big clamp thing. Plug in the pump and turn on the return when the sump gets full.
Roll the hose back up and put it on the rubbermaid. All done.
Takes a lot of hose but makes it much more enjoyable and superfast.

[Europhyllia]

Oh and I hope this wasn't too disappointing as far as automation goes. There are in fact automatic water change systems on the market but they're pricey and mine works well enough.

[alexdmg]

Sounds good, thought it was completely automated. That would be nice. ;-)

[Big_Pun]

I like all my gadgets, best ones being reefkeeper lite, vortech mp40 es, and my auto top off, dosing pumps are next on list. they all make reef life easier.

[BSJF]

It's just hoses and a pump really. :)
My saltwater is made in a 44 gallon Rubbermaid in the laundry room.
For water changes I siphon the water directly out of the tank into the drain in the laundry room (took me 30 feet of 5/8" hose but well worth it). I actually stick an old fishnet into the drain just in case I ever suck up anything of value.
I am at the tank just siphoning stuff of like I would if I did with buckets only that I don't carry buckets around anymore.
Then I roll up that hose and put it away.
Next I just clip the 3/4" hose that goes to the pump in the rubbermaid onto the sump with a big clamp thing. Plug in the pump and turn on the return when the sump gets full.
Roll the hose back up and put it on the rubbermaid. All done.
Takes a lot of hose but makes it much more enjoyable and superfast.
I love automation of WCs myself. Along with the controllers, topoffs, dosers....... Still like to feed by hand. I do get more attention that way.

[allan]

I wouldn't mind if the fish would ignore me. I like seeing them move around naturally. As it is I have to be in the room awhile before they begin behaving normally.

Now the starry blenny is cool when I come in. The rest of the fish make their mad dash to the glass, but the Fonz pops a squat on a rock or outcropping and peers at me intently waiting for my next move.

Karin, your water change sounds a lot like mine. Only I'm still lugging five gallon buckets to the sink. But the replenishment is activated by plugging in the pump. The hoses and brute water container are hidden behind the tank.

How do you determine how much water to take out?

[Europhyllia]

How do you determine how much water to take out?
That's very high tech as well. I got a smilie sticker on the side of the tank at the level that constitutes a regular water change for me :)

[BSJF]

Only I'm still lugging five gallon buckets to the sink.

That is because you want big strong muscles!


I wouldn't mind if the fish would ignore me. I like seeing them move around naturally. As it is I have to be in the room awhile before they begin behaving normally.

Now the starry blenny is cool when I come in. The rest of the fish make their mad dash to the glass, but the Fonz pops a squat on a rock or outcropping and peers at me intently waiting for my next move.
I do have problems seeing my corals through all the fishies. Buster acts the same way and tries to get more attention than the fish. But I feel so loved.

[Kristy]

Lorraine, LOL at the image of Buster competing for your attention with the fishies! Buster is so neglected! :)

You guys have me thinking about what we could do to automate a bit more. I am usually resistant to the high tech because my motto is "If I've ever seen it fail and cause a tank crash, I won't have it." But in the bigger picture, the times that my enthusiasm wanes for this hobby are the occasions when we neglect the tank and it suffers and I feel guilty, so more automation would ultimately equal more enjoyment with less work and less guilt, so that is definitely something worthwhile.

Probably looking at adding in the next couple of months:
1. upgrading all four Vortech controllers to the new higher tech ones
2. biopellet reactor
3. dosing pumps for the 2-part (right now I just add a small amount by hand daily)

[jroescher]

Karin,
What are you using to control the kalk drip? Pump, solenoid, ???

[Europhyllia]

John I use a ReefkeeperLite with pH monitor and a regular Tom's Aqualifter. The Reefkeeper only allow power to that Aqualifters outlet when the pH drops below a certain point. Once it comes back up it automatically shuts off power to that outlet.
It doesn't add enough volume to need top off controls. I have to auto top off freshwater in addition to the kalkwasser drip.

[BSJF]

John I use a ReefkeeperLite with pH monitor and a regular Tom's Aqualifter. The Reefkeeper only allow power to that Aqualifters outlet when the pH drops below a certain point. Once it comes back up it automatically shuts off power to that outlet.
It doesn't add enough volume to need top off controls. I have to auto top off freshwater in addition to the kalkwasser drip.


Sounds dangerous to me if your pH monitor had an issue for any reason or if you had an O2 issue. I didn't bother hooking mine up to the pH monitor, since my pH was usually on the low side all the time but I was using the aqualifter. Its a very low cost option if you build in some safety precautions (limiting the size of your topoff container, pH controller, timer, control valve, etc). After messing with the regulating of the water volume through mine, I switched over to my tunze osmolater that I have had sitting in the closet since I moved in. I wanted to just dose the kalk at night, but since I don't topoff that much water the difference isn't really that big of a deal.




Lorraine, LOL at the image of Buster competing for your attention with the fishies! Buster is so neglected! :)

You guys have me thinking about what we could do to automate a bit more. I am usually resistant to the high tech because my motto is "If I've ever seen it fail and cause a tank crash, I won't have it." But in the bigger picture, the times that my enthusiasm wanes for this hobby are the occasions when we neglect the tank and it suffers and I feel guilty, so more automation would ultimately equal more enjoyment with less work and less guilt, so that is definitely something worthwhile.

Probably looking at adding in the next couple of months:
1. upgrading all four Vortech controllers to the new higher tech ones
2. biopellet reactor
3. dosing pumps for the 2-part (right now I just add a small amount by hand daily)

If Buster sees me doing anything but paying attention to him he complains. Kriss has spoiled him rotten!

With automation, just think through what safety precautions you can build in and incorporate those.

Why would you spend $$ to replace your Vortechs? My vote is to save your $$ for a doser, look at the Magus Bubble doser! My life is so much easier since I got it and my tank is much more stable! I might have to experiment with the refrig. dosing concept. It wouldn't be hard to do and I think my babies would love it.

[Europhyllia]

I think Kristy is correct in that any kind of automation can fail. I've had an air bubble on the Tunze ATO sensor and it filled up the whole sump with freshwater so I don't think the pH probe is necessarily more fail prone than a regular ATO. The kalkwasser drip can only add as much as I have in the reservoir. I guess that's my safety feature. lol
Because of my pellets the pH is very low in my tank (CO2 produced by the pellets/bacteria) so even if it dumped the whole container one night pH wouldn't go past 8.3.
I'm not trying to talk anybody into using a similar system. :) Just summarizing what works for me at this time.

[BSJF]

The kalkwasser drip can only add as much as I have in the reservoir. I guess that's my safety feature. lol



I think once you realize the worse that can happen and can accept it, your safey features are complete.
I have tested the safety of mine a few times - oops.

[jroescher]

I'm going to build this ATO-Auto water changer:
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183745

To make things even easier, I already have a drain in the wall behind my sump, a RO/DI feed in my stand, and a mixing tank (albeit ugly) beside my stand. With this I only need to add salt when filling my mixing tank.

[Europhyllia]

me too Lorraine. lol
you can't plug an aqualifter into the 2 or 3 ports or else the controller turns them on but never turns it back off - yes oops ;)

Nice water changer John!!!

[Kristy]

If Buster sees me doing anything but paying attention to him he complains. Kriss has spoiled him rotten!


Right - it's just Kriss that spoils him. You haven't helped at all! ;)



With automation, just think through what safety precautions you can build in and incorporate those.

We have tried to but I'm a little paranoid and like to double up on the safety measures. If it can go wrong in our house, it will.



Why would you spend $$ to replace your Vortechs? My vote is to save your $$ for a doser, look at the Magus Bubble doser! My life is so much easier since I got it and my tank is much more stable! I might have to experiment with the refrig. dosing concept. It wouldn't be hard to do and I think my babies would love it.


Our Vortechs have the old controllers and I'm excited to get the newer ones. We won't be replacing the whole Vortech, just upgrading it to the Ecosmart driver so we can do things like turn them off during the water changes without having to unplug them and then reset the settings, more master and slave options for them to work together. Mike wants to experiment with more wave action.

I agree with the doser idea. The only reason we haven't done it so far is we have tried to be conservative about the number of electrical outlets the tank uses... already have half a million things plugged in there. And the automated feeder - VERY cool concept. Whoever gets theirs set up first, I want to come see it in action to see how it works.

[BSJF]

Hey, I don't spoil that dog, I buy his food and walk him once in a while. Ok, I will rub on his cute little belly when he lets me, and I am very impressed with every bone or ball he brings me, but that's it! I don't give him a cookie for eating his breakfast - who does that? Buster reminds him about it! Buster is begging right now for that walk, darn it - bark, bark, whine, bark, bark, whine - and I haven't even told him. Now he just brought me his big ball. Can he read this? Crap, he can.

And I EARNED the title Mrs. Floodahouse for a reason! If it can go wrong, it does for me too. Hence all my safety gadgets.

I forgot about the plugs! With the Magus its a single plug instead or 2 or 3~ with the individual pumps! I'm in the same boat with outlets - none left. I put off the doser as long as I could. When I had to dose daily (in addition to my reactors) and started losing corals because of my inconsistency. And it became very obvious that I don't like to work that hard, so I broke down and did it.

I guess my vortech setup is much simplier than yours. I only have 1 and it runs while I do my waterchange so I rarely unplug it. Sure, talk me into an upgrade. I was perfectly happy with mine, now look what you did.

[Europhyllia]

Sure, talk me into an upgrade. I was perfectly happy with mine, now look what you did.

Serves you right, Lorraine. You just made me buy a 3-pump doser... ;)

[Kristy]

Really? Only the one plug for three reactors? Looks like we might be doing this sooner than later!

[Europhyllia]

it has a controller on the pumps so you need only one plug and no additional controller

[BSJF]

:angel: I am a very influencial person :shades:

Good thing the kids are coming for Christmas, it will help keep my upgrades in check.

[ramsey]

I wouldn't mind if the fish would ignore me. I like seeing them move around naturally. As it is I have to be in the room awhile before they begin behaving normally.

Now the starry blenny is cool when I come in. The rest of the fish make their mad dash to the glass, but the Fonz pops a squat on a rock or outcropping and peers at me intently waiting for my next move.

Karin, your water change sounds a lot like mine. Only I'm still lugging five gallon buckets to the sink. But the replenishment is activated by plugging in the pump. The hoses and brute water container are hidden behind the tank.

How do you determine how much water to take out?

DUDE! Seriously, 5 gallon buckets suck. Just get a 30G rubbermaid with some wheels and a cheap pump. If you have carpet or something, just a get a really long hose. I did the 5G bucket thing and it was a major pain.

My current method involves pumping tank water into the trashcan on wheels, rolling it to the front door, then pumping it down my driveway. Next, I pump fresh saltwater into the trashcan on wheels, roll it back over to the tank and pump it in. Much easier than using buckets.

Im still thinking about automating the whole thing. I have a closet on the other side of my tank that I have my top off container in. Next to the closest is a bathroom. I'm thinking about plumbing in an RO/DI unit and running it to the closet and my top off container. From my top off container, have an ATO that runs to another container (20G or so) for salt water. From there, I'll have a pump and hose that runs to my tank. for water removal, I'll have another pump that is plumbed from my tank into the restroom drain. I'd still have to mix the salt and turn a couple pumps on but it'd still be closer to full automation.

One idea I had is to find something that could measure salt and add it automatically. You'd have a salinity sensor and a controller. The controller would know when the salinity drops and would trigger "something" that would add a certain amount of salt to the water. That's the difficult part. Not sure what "something" would be. I think it'd be really cool to push a button a do a water change. You wouldn't have to mix salt, just replenish the dry salt when you're running low. This part is a pipe dream.

And yes, I really love gadgets and I love the automation stuff though most of it's expensive.

[Europhyllia]

This part is a pipe dream.


Happy Birthday ramsey ;):
http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/categories.php?cat=7

[allan]

You could set up a barrel with a hypersalinated water next to your mixing bucket. As your sensor detects a drop in salinity it triggers a solenoid to release the hyper salted mixture into the mixing barrel. Since it's already dissolved you won't get that "oops I put too much salt into the mix" response that you would get with dry salt mixing into a fresh solution.

Or you could get a deer feeder like machine that would run on a five minute timer. When the sensor detects a drop it triggers the machine. Immediately after the feed the machine is disabled for half an hour. During that time if the salinity climbs to an acceptable level the sensor stops sending the signal.

But I see a bunch of problems with that. Primarily that you would require a finer touch than a deer feeder, and if there is any moister in you closet you're gonna have chunks of salt.

The first idea would probably be best. I wonder what's the highest salinity one can attain before it stops mixing with water?

[BSJF]

pumping tank water into the trashcan on wheels, rolling it to the front door, then pumping it down my driveway. Next, I pump fresh saltwater into the trashcan on wheels, roll it back over to the tank and pump it in. Much easier than using buckets.

If you use a longer hose, you can eliminate even more! Why are you rolling that trashcan around? I run the hose directly from the tank to outside, no trashcan involved in the dumping. Also, I make my saltwater in my trashcan.


I'm thinking about plumbing in an RO/DI unit and running it to the closet and my top off container. From my top off container, have an ATO that runs to another container (20G or so) for salt water. From there, I'll have a pump and hose that runs to my tank. for water removal, I'll have another pump that is plumbed from my tank into the restroom drain. I'd still have to mix the salt and turn a couple pumps on but it'd still be closer to full automation.
In the meantime, attach a very long length of tubing with the quick connect shut off valves to your RO/DI. Run that over to the trash can to fill it up (the trash can has a float valve on it too and a short amount of tubing attached to that). You can do the same for another container for top off.

[Europhyllia]

was just thinking of safety and it reminded me of a gadget I bought thanks to Kristy and Mike:
Zircon water alarms. I got one in the laundry room, one in the stand, one behind the stand, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/Zircon-Leak-Alert-Electronic-Batteries/dp/B002Q8GRPG

Doesn't take much to flood your stand - it could be as easy as the kalkwasser drip line slipping out of the clamp, etc...

[BSJF]

Or not having the o-ring on the kalk reactor :( Haven't got one of these, obviously could use one.

[Europhyllia]

Oh I am making water right now and I just thought of another 'more gain' thing!!!
Dual 75 gpd membranes!!!
It's so wonderful to save so much water and fill my RO buckets up at record speed at the same time. :)

[alton]

I tried that once but my TDS went up

[Europhyllia]

That's weird. Mine is perfect. I really like it. I wonder why it wasn't effective in your case. Did you have enough pressure to run two? My guess would be the pressure was too low. I run a booster pump.