Precision Marine support = FAIL

[ramsey]

I don't think I'll be buying anything from Precision Marine again. Here's why:

First, I found their site that they sell scratch and dent items to the public. Since they're literally three miles from my house, I emailed them and asked if I could pick up a sump. I needed it quick so I couldn't wait for shipping. I still haven't gotten an email response. Gabe called them for me and they said that they weren't willing to do this. That was a little disappointing since you'd think they'd be happy to help out a local person. However, what really upsets me is that I still don't have a response to my email. At least acknowledge it. That's very poor customer service. I would expect at minimum a "we sorry but we can't do that email". I'm sure they know that Gabe called on my behalf but they should still acknowledge my email.

I ended up buying a new sump from them so that I could get it as quickly as I needed to. I was really torn to do this though since I was upset about the prior issue but I figured I'd give them another chance since I love supporting local or Texas companies when I can. That was probably a mistake. Due to the design of the sump, it's VERY noisy. I know exactly why it's noisy. There are two pipes where you connect your drain hoses to. Under those pipes are two filter socks. Since the pipes sit a lot higher than filter socks and the water level, it's very "splashy" and noisy. I'm not talking peaceful waterfall noisy, I'm talking I now need a home theater system to hear my TV in the living room. Anyway, I sent them another email asking if they knew how to quiet it down. I know that adding longer pipes so that they were in the water would work, but this would make it a real pain to get the filter socks off and put new one's on. So I thought they might have a more elegant solution which would solve the issue and make it easy to get the filter socks off. They did reply to this email in a timely matter which gave me some confidence. However, the email stated:

"You can dampen the noise by using a gate valve on the drain of your overflow fittings. This way there will be no venting of air. That’s the cause of the noise.
Please let me know if you need any gate valves or other advice."

I knew this was not the problem since it's happening because there's a good 4" or so drop from the drain pipes to the water line. By the way, I know this is the case because I added a couple of extra drain hoses and put them down in the water. It quieted down right away. The issues is, with this method, I won't be able to use the filter socks. So I thought, "maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first email". So I replied and tried to explain myself better and told him that I didn't think putting gate valves on would fix the issue. I sent that Monday. I have gotten no reply to that email. Which again, is poor customer service. I really thought I'd get good service from them being local and all. Since I went out of my way (spending more on their product than I could have with another brand) to support a local company, I expected to have DECENT service since I'm local. I suppose this is not the case though and it makes me wonder what kind of support others are getting.

I was considering going with them again and buying two reactors and a skimmer but this experience changed my mind. I just ordered a Bubble Magus skimmer and a NextReef reactor. I'll be ordering another NextReef reactor in a couple weeks.

I just thought I'd put this out there in case anyone was considering ordering something from. I think you all deserve to know what to expect if you have a problem or a question. I really hope they can address this since I do like they're products (I have a RL125 skimmer and love it) and I love the fact they're in New Braunfels. Until then though, I refuse to use them for anything else.

[ramsey]

One more thing to note, I work for a company that prides itself on providing a very high level of service so it upsets me to get bad service.

[alexdmg]

It's disappointing to hear about your problems bro. Customer service is the reason why I drive across town to buy my coral and equipment even though there's several fish stores considerably closer.

I was planning on purchasing a bullet skimmer in the near future to replace my Aqua-C because of the design features, but it's a "nice to have" item and not really needed, especially if I'm hearing that they're not treating their RETURNING customers with enough respect to return an email or try to workout a resolution.

From a business point of view, you would think that they would want to know about design problems with their equipment so they can reevaluate the design and see if a redesign or a fix is warranted.

Just my 2 cents. Hopefully, this thread gets their attention and maybe gets their customer service back on track.

-Alex

[Europhyllia]

That's a bummer. For what it's worth I have reverse dursos on my drain pipes and have managed to put filter sock under them since they don't go that far into the water. You do need some kind of air escape (like the reverse dursos) or else the bubbles coming up will cause a lot of salt spray.

[txg8gxp]

My solution to the problem was a flex drain hose. I removed the bulkheads and just run the flex hose down through the hole. This allows me to get the drain output as low as I want it, and it can be lifted up to replace my filter sock. http://www.aquacave.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=828

[ramsey]

Alex told me a solution that I think will work. I have the durso stand pipes. I'm going to replace the PVC pipe built into the sump with a longer piece of PVC and add a union on it. Then I just unscrew the union and remove the bottom part of the pipe when I need to get the socks off.

[txg8gxp]

that would work, but with the flex line I don't even need to turn off my return pump to change out my filter sock.

[BSJF]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I emailed them because I was missing a part to my Kalk Reactor (I lost it in the move) and they were quick to respond and provided me a link where I could order it from them. They even replied again to my thank you response.

[txmike]

Well to bad for them. I have one of there skimmers(Bullet-1)and love it but with this kind of customer support i dont think i would be buying from them .FYI the Engineer goby i picked up from alex is doing well and the wife and my son loves him so thanks for him.Thanks alexs for picking him up and holding him.

[ramsey]

Well to bad for them. I have one of there skimmers(Bullet-1)and love it but with this kind of customer support i dont think i would be buying from them .FYI the Engineer goby i picked up from alex is doing well and the wife and my son loves him so thanks for him.Thanks alexs for picking him up and holding him.

Glad you like him! They really grew on me. It was hard to let them go but I really wanted to go bare bottom. Thanks again for all the help Saturday! That was the least I could do!

[alexdmg]

Thanks alexs for picking him up and holding him.

No problem Mike. Thanks Ramsey for the Goby too! My kids freaked out when they saw it and they love it! It's awesome watching your kids eyes light up when they see something for the first time; it's times like these that make being a parent so special.

Now back on subject... ;-)

[ramsey]

That's a bummer. For what it's worth I have reverse dursos on my drain pipes and have managed to put filter sock under them since they don't go that far into the water. You do need some kind of air escape (like the reverse dursos) or else the bubbles coming up will cause a lot of salt spray.

Thanks for that Karin. While this won't fix my issue currently, it will prevent the gurgling sound I get when the pipes are all the way in the water. I did some research on the reverse dursos and it seems like they're the perfect solution. I had this problem on my old tank and it always annoyed me. It's a sump, not a caldron.

[ramsey]

No problem Mike. Thanks Ramsey for the Goby too! My kids freaked out when they saw it and they love it! It's awesome watching your kids eyes light up when they see something for the first time; it's times like these that make being a parent so special.

Now back on subject... ;-)

No problem, glad you like him! As I said, it's the least I could do. Thanks for the reactor. :)

[Big_Pun]

I had the same prob but I have all vinyl tubing with a 90 at the end that goes just a out 1-2 inches under water level, and about 4 inches into the sock but with the vinyl being flexible I can take it off with no problem.

[ramsey]

I had the same prob but I have all vinyl tubing with a 90 at the end that goes just a out 1-2 inches under water level, and about 4 inches into the sock but with the vinyl being flexible I can take it off with no problem.

I don't think this will stop the gurgle (hot tub effect) I'm getting. I think the reverse durso thing is the way to go.

[Big_Pun]

I don't think this will stop the gurgle (hot tub effect) I'm getting. I think the reverse durso thing is the way to go.

yea that exactly the prob i had, some how the 90 a the end helps, before i had a filter sock i just ran my tubbing to bottom of sump and i would get a big burb every 5 seconds so i added a ball valve inline and choked it back slowly till the burb went away. after work ill post a pic of my current set up if you want to see it, i would tell you to swing by but you live far, lol and you get lost j/k.

[Europhyllia]

This link has a great video/instruction on the reverse dursos. I glued only the main drain pipe but not the assemble at the dursos so I can just slip out the last pipe piece -no union needed
http://projectreeftank.com/2008/05/26/reverse-durso-to-quiet-a-noisy-drain/

[ramsey]

yea that exactly the prob i had, some how the 90 a the end helps, before i had a filter sock i just ran my tubbing to bottom of sump and i would get a big burb every 5 seconds so i added a ball valve inline and choked it back slowly till the burb went away. after work ill post a pic of my current set up if you want to see it, i would tell you to swing by but you live far, lol and you get lost j/k.

HAHA LOL! **** Google Maps...



This link has a great video/instruction on the reverse dursos. I glued only the main drain pipe but not the assemble at the dursos so I can just slip out the last pipe piece -no union needed
http://projectreeftank.com/2008/05/26/reverse-durso-to-quiet-a-noisy-drain/

Yup, that's what I'm going for. Here's a picture I found:

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2010Q3/IMG_6016.jpg

The only thing I'm going to do different is increase the size of the pipe from 1" to 1.5" before it gets to the durso. Probably right after the 90 degree fitting.

[wesheltonj]

I have bought several PM products and have two service issuse. They were very helpful with service. They are sticky about the general public comming by, they do not allow it. Yes, its a pain when most of us could drive there and get the item right a way verses waiting on UPS.

By the way you need a GHL 3, to run thoses AI's & MP40's

[jroescher]

"They are sticky about the general public comming by, they do not allow it."

Anyone know why? I've never worked in commercial before, so I have no idea what rules there are for this.

[Gseclipse02]

"They are sticky about the general public comming by, they do not allow it."

Anyone know why? I've never worked in commercial before, so I have no idea what rules there are for this.

my best guess would insurance reasons, or maybe they dont want new designs to be taken last thought maybe they make money off of shipping ???

[Europhyllia]

Might just be a liability thing?

[ramsey]

Regardless of the reason, I'm fine with that. Them not replying to TWO separate emails is another story. I was going to buy either a bullet or larger RL skimmer but did not because of the lack of service. I bought a Bubble Magus instead (probably better anyway, the thing's a beast).

Also, I'd love a Profilux 3 to control my lights and MP40's but my Wife would kill me if I went and spent that kind of money right now. :)

[alton]

Companies make decisions to be wholesale only selling to the retail market. Dan who makes sumps since at least 1990 (that I know of) sells to only stores and not the public. As a business if you want a store to carry your product but then sell to the public you are cutting your hand off (so to speak). Also no one wants to give up there secrets on how things are done so I can understand the "Not open to the public".
Now on the emails as a business if you have a customer service that has a place for asking questions they should be answered or put a disclaimer like please contact your local retailer for information on this product. As a person who sends quotes all the time by email, I still call because sometimes they get lost just like faxes.

[CoryDude]

Companies make decisions to be wholesale only selling to the retail market. Dan who makes sumps since at least 1990 (that I know of) sells to only stores and not the public. As a business if you want a store to carry your product but then sell to the public you are cutting your hand off (so to speak).

Alton, I completely agree with you. Euroreef was a prime example of a company that was a wholesaler who also sold on-line to the public. This ticked off many lfs owners and they decided to carry PM or some other skimmer brand just because Euroreef could undercut them and limit their markup.

[wesheltonj]

They donot allow it as they sale wholesale only and not to the public.

[ramsey]

Yup, as I've already said, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND not selling to the public. HOWEVER, not REPLYING TO MY EMAIL REQUEST to tell me this is what ticks me off. Also, not providing service for something I just bought ticks me off. The sump I bought wasn't cheap and I was already using their skimmer and had plans to buy a couple of reactors, possibly a kalk reactor and a bullet skimmer. You can forget that noise though. They're are plenty of other companies that want my business and would gladly respond to email requests to get it. PM has STILL NOT RESPONDED to either of my emails.

Again, I would have been perfectly fine with an email saying "sorry, we won't allow you to come up here to buy it, we have to ship it". Silence is what I've received though. I'm so tempted to get Dan to build me a custom sump and sell the PM one just out of principle.

Sorry guys, I have give a high level of service to my customers and I expect at least DECENT service from someone I'm spending money with. Look at my thread under Buckeyes sponsor forum. That's good service. Posted on their FORUM and got quick responses from them. I can assure you I'll be buying something from them this week and when/if I replace one of my RO units. They want my money, PM apparently doesn't.

[ramsey]

Sorry guys, I just realized you all may have been responding to Europhillya's post. I'm leaving mine though regardless. :P

[Europhyllia]

Sorry guys, I have give a high level of service to my customers and I expect at least DECENT service from someone I'm spending money with.

I feel the same way about it ramsey. Totally drives me nuts when somebody has a website or publishes their email and then doesn't respond to (my) customer inquiry.
If you don't want to answer emails then don't bother with a website or don't publish your email address. If you do then make sure it's responded to in a timely manner.
It's quite common though. I was just shopping for somebody to build me a little cabin (guessing around 10k or more) and even with that kind of money people rarely seem to bother responding to inquiries. Guess they got plenty of business already...

[ramsey]

I feel the same way about it ramsey. Totally drives me nuts when somebody has a website or publishes their email and then doesn't respond to (my) customer inquiry.
If you don't want to answer emails then don't bother with a website or don't publish your email address. If you do then make sure it's responded to in a timely manner.
It's quite common though. I was just shopping for somebody to build me a little cabin (guessing around 10k or more) and even with that kind of money people rarely seem to bother responding to inquiries. Guess they got plenty of business already...

Yeah, it really sucks. I think I got it all out with my last post and can let it go now though. :P

[precmarine]

I didn't waste my time reading your rant ramsey. If you think you can talk smack while out of town on vacation with my family, without me responding, you've got another thing coming. If you've got something to say, you had better have the guts to say it to me personally. I am very approachable at 830-626-2401. Better yet, I'd be happy to respond to you personally. I've been in this business for 35 years. It's people like you that make me feel the pain of our valuable retailers and the principal reason I no longer manage retail stores. Good luck, because you're going to need it.

[ramsey]

You know, I was really hoping to get response from you guys either here or to my original emails and work things out so I could update this post and say that it was a misunderstanding or something like that but all has been fixed and I was happy with you all again. I was also hoping to use you guys again in the future when/if this got resolved and have different things to say. Words cannot express how excited I was when I found out that you guys were in NB and only 2-3 miles from my house. I thought it was super cool. However, with your response above, I can clearly see that customer service is not something you guys are concerned with which was my entire issue. I would get fired quick, fast and in a hurry from my current job if I bashed a customer the way you just did. We have customers that may complain about an incident that happened with us and I can assure you, this is not how we handle the situation. We will try to learn from it as to not make the same mistake again and personally contact the customer to see what we could have done better. THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE. I posted this on a local reef forum and not all over the internet which I could have easily done. I didn't do that because that's not what I was after. I didn't want to bash you all, I wanted to get your attention. Emailing you all obviously didn't work. If you guys are set up for email support, then don't offer it. Also, set an auto responder when you're on vacation to let people know it may be a few days before you get back to them that way they don't think they're just an ant being ignored by a giant that could care less about their end users satisfaction. I'm happy to try and talk about this if you'd like over the phone or in person, just let me know a good time. I'm off on the weekends and as mentioned, live 2-3 miles away from your shop.

[ramsey]

One more thing, I said that I liked your stuff. I had a RL125 skimmer and really liked it and I like my sump. However, how would you feel when you're a repeat customer and you drop $400 on another product only to get the silent treatment?

[cbianco]

Seriously...

I can't believe what I'm reading here. This thread has been locked.

DO NOT CONTINUE THIS THREAD/CONVERSATION ON MAAST FORUMS.

Christopher