Cycle is complete, now what?

[DarkHorseMBA]

Ok looks like my initial cycle is complete, ammonia peaked at at 1.0, nitrates peaked at 20' and nitrites peaked at 5. Two days ago ammonia was at 0, while nitrates and nitriates remained 20 & 5.

Today though everything is 0. (ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates). So far I've have no algae, diatoms or anything of the sort. So am I done?

If so what's next?

I don't want to add fish yet as we'll be out of town for Thanksgiving, and I don't the house/FW fish/dog sitter have to contend with a new SW tank as well. Some have mentioned adding a CUC, I'm not sure what they would clean, there's nothing there not visible any way. The tank is 75g, with 80lbs dry rock a refugium. Nothing in the refugium, only 4-5" DSB, skimmer waiting in the wings.

Any ideas?
Cheato, mangroves, Fish, CUC?

DarkHorseMBA

[allan]

Your nitrates shouldn't be 0 unless you've done a significant water change. Nothing in your tank, now empty, to consume the trates.

Wait till you get back home then see what ur parameters are and then think about what you want to add.

Think small. One fish or a little cuc. Maybe a hardy coral?

[DarkHorseMBA]

Humm... Maybe I did not test it correctly? Might take a water sample over to a LFS. See if I'm way off.

[allan]

Dude, my colors never match up. And if I don't like the match that I get I always find some one who sees something more favorable.

If you're gonna go out of town I wouldn't worry it until u get back. But a hardy coral will give you a good idea of your tank by the time you get back. Just don't put any tx trash in there. Those palies can live in the toilet bowl and flourish.

[DarkHorseMBA]

Lights are not ready yet, I need to replace a bulb. I was thinking a few hermits until after the holiday.

What's a palies?

[allan]

http://tapa.tk/mu/6008b155-be70-7795.jpg

Texas trash pallythoas

http://tapa.tk/mu/6008b155-beb9-9e51.jpg

Bright green (under blue actinic) pallythoas.

http://tapa.tk/mu/6008b155-bf0b-b46c.jpg

Another kind, not sire what they're called.

http://tapa.tk/mu/6008b155-bf53-0273.jpg

Another bright green pally.

At any rate you don't want the first pictured pallies.

[Reefer4ever]

No mangroves! Those are trees. I wouldn't want to have that deep of a sand bed either. I would go 1-2 inches deep. If you plan to use a DSB in the sump, you should put the cheatomorpha(or other macroalgae) in another compartment. I don't have first hand experience, but I've heard that when you cover a DSB with algae, you build up tons of detritus. You should put some kind of small pump in the DSB chamber to create a circle motion going above the SB, hit the glass and go into the SB, go through the SB, then come out on the side of the pump; repeat. I hear this keeps circulation through the SB and because there is nothing on top of the SB, you end up with no detritus build-up.

As for stocking, hold off on fish and most coral until Thanksgiving passes. I would say add a few hardy red mushroom corals and see if they are growing, thriving, and reproducing. I'm sure there are things for a CUC to eat. I would add a small CUC like a few hermit crabs, a few cerith snails, a few nassarius snails, and a few nerite snails.
Just remember, no SPS, amemones, or giant clams until your tank is about half a year old.

Good luck and happy reefing! :D

[Reefer4ever]

Allen, why do you say not to have the first pictured palys? I have them. Are they just not pleasing to the eye; grow too fast; what?

[CoryDude]

No Texas Trash Palys. They are impossible to get rid of.

Why can't you add cheato to a dsb section on a refugium? It's not going to cover the sand, but float above it. DSB are going to have some detritus buildup anyways. Agree with the circulation advice.

This is the part where you need to have carefull planning. Don't rush and don't add anything your not too sure about. Do your research and get a coral and fish list together this month. Then add a fish or two at a time when you get back.

A clean up crew is a must, so just add those while your gone. You (and the house sitter) can always drop a little bit of food into the tank to make sure they and the bacteria have something to eat.

[Reefer4ever]

Like I said, I don't have first hand experience with a sump, as I've never had one, yet. Just trying to give what knowledge I've accumulated from reef forums.
I really don't care about the "Texas Trash Palys". If they grow, they grow. Rip some out when there are too many, let them grow back, and then rip some more out. I don't see why these palys are such a fuss.

[jroescher]

"So far I've have no algae, diatoms or anything of the sort." ...yet. You will, just hide and watch. When you start adding things to your tank, you will start having to deal with this.

No matter what you do next, I would add a few snails to the mix. Crabs are debatable.

[Reefer4ever]

True. A lot of people don't like crabs. I used to have all sorts of crabs, but now I only have a few hermit crabs. When I caught the crabs, I fed them to my oscar, Oscar(R.I.P:( ). Now I have two red leg hermit crabs. All kinds of crabs knock things over and some destroy coral. Therefore, people don't want crabs.

[CoryDude]

Reefer, I wasn't going after you. I was really curious as why. If I had a nickel for everytime sometime around here told me I was wrong, I could set you up a DSA 140 complete w/LED's and a Deltec Skimmer and reactor.

The main reason I was questioning you was because I'm ready to put sand in my fuge that's already got cheato and I didn't want to do anything wrong. BTW, I too was sucked into the beauty of the trash palys and then I started to see them spread over the rocks way too fast. From what other Maast members have said, they will kill just about anything they touch.

Nassarius snails would make a good addition, and like I side, maybe once or twice a week drop a little food in the tank to keep your bacteria levels up and the snails fed.

[Reefer4ever]

The palys have been touching one of my red/white acan heads and hasn't been bothered by it, but if there is a possibility of them hurting my acans, I'll move the acans a little bit over. Also, I'm not trying to highjack the OP's thread, but will a green striped mushroom hurt my green/purple acans?

[tebstan]

The chaeto won't tumble as well on a sand bed unless flow is high, but then sand is flowing as well. Chaeto can be over a sand bed, but it will do better without it. (Thanks Ping, at LMAR... :D )

I've had mushrooms near acans. If anything, the acans messed up the mushroom pretty bad. Once they were separated, the mushroom grew back to its normal shape.

To the OP.. some people don't like hermits, but their hilarious antics will give you something to stare at while you wait for the tank to develop more. Stick with one kind - red legs or blue legs or scarlet reef, etc, and you'll have fewer hermit wars break out. Toss in a few extra shells to prevent battles. Be careful adding hermits and snails at the same time to a new tank. There may not be enough algae for the snails. And some snails don't flip themselves easily when they fall upside down, making them crab bait.

[ramsey]

Therefore, people don't want crabs.

I agree, they're such a pain in the groin. Also, once you get them, they're very hard to get rid of. It's like an itch impossible to scratch. Well, that's what I've heard anyway.

[allan]

I started with about 10 or 15 tx trash pallies... Which grew in a plague like fashion.

The thing is that they do grow, they grow everywhere. I had a chalice that was spreading out real nice, figured that the tx trash would starve for a lack of light. Instead they grew up and onto the chalice. On top of it!

I still have them, I hate killing them in the tank because all of the fleshy material that floats away. Taking them out isn't always as easy as that. But I did remove a ten pound rock that had been placed too close... Half the rock was covered in the palies.

Growing things is cool, it growing so fast and so much that it becomes your only coral? I wouldn't recommend it.

[DarkHorseMBA]

I agree, they're such a pain in the groin. Also, once you get them, they're very hard to get rid of. It's like an itch impossible to scratch. Well, that's what I've heard anyway.

We're still talking about saltwater crabs right? :-)


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[ErikH]

Like I said, I don't have first hand experience with a sump, as I've never had one, yet. Just trying to give what knowledge I've accumulated from reef forums.
I really don't care about the "Texas Trash Palys". If they grow, they grow. Rip some out when there are too many, let them grow back, and then rip some more out. I don't see why these palys are such a fuss.

They are "such a fuss" because of their growth rate. I have had them for a few years, and they have managed to singly take out more zoa colonies and montis than any other coral in my tank. Sure you just rip them out, but they grow back in double the amount. Please let those of us with some wisdom on the subject shed some light on it without smearing the comment and interjecting with an opinion that is not based on experience. You haven't had a plague such as them, and you are lucky. They are as bad a pest as any in a reef tank, and when you spend thousands of dollars trying to make your tank perfect, it really sucks to have one stupid paly become the downfall of many hundreds of dollars worth of corals. That is unless you want your tank to look brown. I am actually about to make some more rock because I need to pull all of the rock out of this tank due to Texas Trash.

[ErikH]

Oh, and as far as a CUC.....

I would go with blue leg and red leg hermits and nassarius snails. Turbos, astreas, and all of the other snails don't clean the glass enough to really be beneficial, IMHO.
Also, the snails that tend to get on the glass, tend to get into your overflows. This happened to me this week. I had a slight overflow of the display because I have a Mag24 as a return and my overflows couldn't stand to have one being clogged.

Hermits and nassarius eat up the food not consumed by the fish, and will also eat poop at times. This is what you want... As Tebstan stated, put some extra shells in there so they can grow into them. That will keep them from fighting over larger shells as they grow. Hobby Lobby sells packs of decorator shells for a decent price, and it dresses up the hermits into nicer costumes. Of course, as with anything that moves, they can knock over frags, etc. Just glue the frags you get down well enough the first time and you should be fine. It's cool to watch the nassarius rise up out of your sandbed when you feed. It's like night of the living dead.

1" sandbed or less, larger is a detritus trap which will cause nitrates to hover at undesirable levels.

[ErikH]

Oh, and if you want to buy a fish, buy some cleaners. Do that for at least 3 or 4 more weeks. CHECK THEM FOR RED PLANARIA BEFORE INTRODUCING THEM INTO YOUR TANK.

[tebstan]

I like my trash palys. But I still keep them isolated on a little island like a leper colony. Same with the xenia.

I agree with the addition of nassarius snails, how could I have forgotten them! When my tank was brand new, I would peel krill and skewer it on a toothpick. Placing a few skewers in the tank to draw out the crabs and nassarius was so much fun to watch.

[Reefer4ever]

I wasn't trying to make this a big deal and by no means trying to insult any of your intelligence's. I was just giving my opinion on them. If you have them, you have them. If you don't have them, don't get them... period. Lets let this be behind us.

[CoryDude]

Now that we've taken a little excursion, back to the topic on hand. Allan's right, you should still have nitrates, unless you're exporting them somehow. Since you don't have a skimmer installed, hold off on the fish. I'd go with the snails, keep lightly feeding, and add some cheato from another member. That will get your pod populations started and help with the tank's maturation process.

[ErikH]

I like my trash palys. But I still keep them isolated on a little island like a leper colony. Same with the xenia.

I agree with the addition of nassarius snails, how could I have forgotten them! When my tank was brand new, I would peel krill and skewer it on a toothpick. Placing a few skewers in the tank to draw out the crabs and nassarius was so much fun to watch.

Be careful as they will spread, usually a head or two pops off and starts to grow on the back side of another rock, conveniently where you cant see it. Then the next thing you know you have a full blown nightmare.

[ErikH]

I wasn't trying to make this a big deal and by no means trying to insult any of your intelligence's. I was just giving my opinion on them. If you have them, you have them. If you don't have them, don't get them... period. Lets let this be behind us.


I wasn't saying you were, just trying to keep the OP posted on facts, rather than misinform or make it seem like something that is a huge nuisance like it is not. They are unfortunately a pest, and I was simply stating that they should not be put into a tank. If some are found they should be removed immediately. I am several years down the road with them, and am suffering the consequences of not removing them in the first place. I can show you pics of their growth, and how they have devastated the once beautiful zoa colonies that I had in my tank. Just trying to pass on my knowledge and wisdom to other reefers, as this comes from years of experience with them.

[tebstan]

There is a fine line between fact and opinion. Especially in this hobby.

"Hermits are a nuisance." Fact. "Hermits are beneficial cuc." Fact.

The OP wanted to know what to put in his tank. There are no lights, so the recommendation of corals of any kind is a moot point, same with snails, since no light=no algae.

If you're comfortable letting someone drop in a few mysids to keep the critters alive, some hermits or nassarius would be the best option. (Only if you don't mind having hermits.)

If you're going out of town, the best thing to add to the tank is probably nothing.

Even if they'll stay alive while you're gone... if you put something into the tank and then leave town, you miss out on a valuable learning opportunity to watch your tank go through the next stage of development. And if you're really into your tank like I am, the first living things to be put in are also a bonding opportunity. I wouldn't bring home a new puppy and then leave it with strangers for a while. Sure, they're just crabs. But they're your crabs.

[ramsey]

We're still talking about saltwater crabs right? :-)


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:innocent2:

[ErikH]

His nitrates could be 0 if he did several water changes....

[DarkHorseMBA]

His nitrates could be 0 if he did several water changes....
I have not done any water changes...
Going to recheck the water tonight, just to be sure.

[DarkHorseMBA]

Oh, and if you want to buy a fish, buy some cleaners. Do that for at least 3 or 4 more weeks. CHECK THEM FOR RED PLANARIA BEFORE INTRODUCING THEM INTO YOUR TANK.

What is "RED PLANARIA"?

[ErikH]

http://www.melevsreef.com/id/tbs/flatworms.jpg

[DarkHorseMBA]

Now that we've taken a little excursion, back to the topic on hand. Allan's right, you should still have nitrates, unless you're exporting them somehow. Since you don't have a skimmer installed, hold off on the fish. I'd go with the snails, keep lightly feeding, and add some cheato from another member. That will get your pod populations started and help with the tank's maturation process.

Have not done a water change to export Nitrates. Did another reading and it all 0, ammonia, nitrites & nitrate.

Also added 6 hermits, got 2 weeks until I leave, they are about 1 cm each! They quickly got lost in the tank.


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[CoryDude]

Then it sounds like your DSB is working jif nitrates are gone. Looks like you've got a good start.

[tony]

"So far I've have no algae, diatoms or anything of the sort." ...yet. You will, just hide and watch.


lol, agree

[DarkHorseMBA]

Then it sounds like your DSB is working jif nitrates are gone. Looks like you've got a good start.

That what I was wondering. Awesome!

[Reefer4ever]

I'm pretty sure that ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate can all be cycled out of a saltwater ecosystem? I think saltwater environments have little critters that freshwater can't contain, so freshwater only allows ammonia and nitrite to be converted into nitrates? Are one of the "little critters" that I'm talking about rhizobium?

[StevenSeas]

I'm pretty sure that ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate can all be cycled out of a saltwater ecosystem? I think saltwater environments have little critters that freshwater can't contain, so freshwater only allows ammonia and nitrite to be converted into nitrates? Are one of the "little critters" that I'm talking about rhizobium?

no, rhizobium is a bacteria that live on the outside of the roots of some plants. it takes inorganic nitrogen "fixes" it so that it is now organic nitrogen and that the plant may consume this and use it as building blocks for growth

http://tinyurl.com/24gl4r3

[Reefer4ever]

Inorganic nitrogen as in nitrogen gas(N2) being converted into organic nitrogen oxides(NO2, NO3), right?