Skimmers

[txg8gxp]

It's time for me to start looking around for skimmer upgrades, but there is too many options. I would like to hear some opinions on style of skimmers(venturi,NW,etc.), and size ratings. How big of a skimmer is really needed, if it says 100g is it good for 100g or 60g? I would really like so opinions on differences between needle wheel and venturi style skimmers.

[alton]

This arguement could go on for ever of which type of skimmer is better, good luck on your choice. One thing to consider is the size of the pump that runs the skimmer? Some skimmers take very large pumps and some take small even though both are rated for the same amount of gallons. Example a skimmer pump that draws 134 watts will run you here in SA $115 a year in utility cost. Another skimmer that runs off of a pump drawing 34 watts will use $29 a year. That is $86 a year difference or $430 in five years. So many times we worry about our lighting cost when it is the everyday pumps that run 24/7 that are costing us.

[Europhyllia]

In zeo circles and the like I've read that needlewheel skimmers are to be avoided because they are less plankton friendly.
It's part of the reason I chose a top down injection venturi (the Elos Skimmer I just sold). It didn't work well for me simply because of fluctuating water levels in my sump and of how low the water had to be for it to work well. I was able to get an injection cleaner for the Elos meaning ATO is fed past the injector knob thingy and therefore flushed and cleaned of salt creep automatically so I didn't have to. People said ventiruis have to be adjusted a lot but I didn't really feel that was the case with that one. Based on the instructions it did feel like they were more sensitive to changes (like after water changes, etc.) or maybe the other manufacturers just didn't cover that as extensively in their manuals. The top down injection venturi skimmer ran with a regular pump (not needlewheel) - I used a 3.0 Sicce with 48 watts.

I liked the top down injection so when I decided to switch skimmers I went with another top down spray induction system. It is not a venturi so I am hoping to gain the advantages of no needlewheel along with less sensitivity to changes compared to the venturi. It's the AquaC 240 and uses a Sicce Syncra 5.0 with 105 watts.
As Alton pointed out that's twice as much in energy consumption.
Not sure if the needlewheel is really that detrimental to plankton or if spray induction would be really gentler on plankton as I haven't seen anybody do any tests on it so sort of ignore that part.

Keep in mind both of these were rated for 200 gallon tanks (or slightly more) so I am sure yours will go with smaller pumps.

I was lucky to win a Advanced Aquarist Book giveaway a couple of months ago and in it it had two awesome articles related to skimmers. One was about skimmate content, the other was about skimmer performance. I think it would be worthwhile reading those before making any purchase decisions.
My book is the new 2010 edition meaning those articles should have been published on AA sometime online between January 2010 and August 2010. You can search for them at www.advancedaquarist.com (http://www.advancedaquarist.com)

[txg8gxp]

That for info, and the link karin. Yes wattage is a big thing for me, it even kills me to put a mag pump on my system. I looked at spray induction, but on a smaller system I don't like the big pumps needed. I still have alot of time to research before upgrading, and I do like my reef octupus so I'm looking at these skimmers right now.
I'm still unsure of skimmer size, when my system is done it will be around 75-90g. http://www.aquacave.com/super-reef-octopusbr-xp-1000sss-cone--brprotein-skimmer-3059.html
http://www.aquacave.com/reef-octopus-extremebr-sx-160-protein-skimmer-brby-coralvue-3146.html

[Europhyllia]

what do you like about the Octopus. I think the Octopus they used in their study actually ended up being the lowest valued one in a price/effectiveness comparison
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature_album/image043.jpg

The skimmers all have different mixing volumes Vs, ranging from a maximum of 1.3 gallons for the Reef Octopus 150 down to a minimum of 0.69 gallons for the Bubble King and 0.62 gallons for the EuroReef. These differences in skimmer sizes become influential in determining the overall rate of TOC removal, whereas the flow rate Q has much less significance (see the discussion along with Eq. (25)). For example, the smallish Bubble King mini 160 skimmer has a relatively small overall rate of TOC removal even though its intrinsic rate constant k is in the middle range; that is, its smaller size really limits its ability to remove TOC rapidly. The similarly sized EuroReef CS80 has a much larger rate of TOC removal since its intrinsic rate constant k is 4x the Bubble King's k value. Conversely, the large volume of the Reef Octopus 150 does not overcome an intrinsic rate constant k at the lower edge of the calculated values and so it exhibits the smallest rate of TOC removal amongst all of the skimmers tested. Of course, all of these skimmers arrive with different price tags, and so a relevant question might focus on the price/performance trade-off. These data are illustrated in Fig. 7. The prices listed are the standard retail price that was paid at the time that these skimmers were purchased. It should not escape notice that the least expensive skimmer (the Precision Marine ES100) offers the greatest rate of TOC removal.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature/view?searchterm=skimmer%20performance

Maybe check out a Precision Marine one too before you decide. They're now MAAST sponsors and came out ahead in the AA study :)

[txg8gxp]

Thanks for the link:) I like the PM venturi skimmers, but they run too big of pumps and the redlines use the same pump I have now. It's good, but I don't think it's great. IMO

[alton]

Wow I can't believe someone else likes spray injection besides me? I have been using a Urchin Pro with a mag3 since 2003 and have only cleaned it once with adjusting the cup when I moved it to my 300 from my 200. I am one who believes in skimming just not as much as others. The only draw back is dumping the cup at least twice a week.

[TexasTodd]

I've owned a lot of skimmers. The new Super Reef Octopus with the Bubble Blaster pumps are amazing and the best bang for your buck I've seen. The BB3000 and BB5000 pumps are proving very reliable, quiet, strong, and fairly low watts. I've had the SRO5000 for over a year without any problems, I think it was $500 new including shipping.

Alton, you know you can get a ported cup on your Urchin right? They are indeed a good skimmer. I had a Remora Pro on a 130g system and when I upgraded to the either Mag7 or Mag9 with the upgraded taller cup, and skimmed wet, I was able to kill off my refugium algae!

Todd

[TexasTodd]

Personally, I would not order from AquaCave.

Here is where I got mine, and I believe some of these are exclusively his design. You can talk to the owner LIVE and he knows a lot. They do take up a bit more room. I like the pump under the skimmer design, but I think these pumps may be better...not sure but ask.

http://www.reefspecialty.com/Protein-Skimmers-Super-Reef-Octopus-Super-Reef-Series/c21_103_130/index.html

Hopefully the link will go hot or someone can make it!

Todd

[txg8gxp]

The SRO and SRO xp sss both use the bubble blaster pumps

[z28pwr]

I've owned several Skimmers through the years and I'm very happy with my current choice due to the high performance, low wattage and value they provide. For the 144 half circle I run an SWC 160 and for my 600 I run an SWC 300, both are powered by Sicce PSK-2500 pumps, but the 300 has two pumps and the 160 has one. These Skimmers do an awesome job and the only thing I do is empty the cup every other week or so. You can get more info at WWW.swcskimmers.com

[Europhyllia]

Got my Aqua-C running now and I have to say I love it!
The Elos was well made and beautiful but not the perfect match for the BP set up. The Aqua-C is more than what I had hoped for. I like it a lot. Can't get myself to cough up the extra 80 bucks for a waste container so I am just using a plastic cereal container right now. Maybe later on the waste container. It would make it look very clean and snazzy but who's going to look in the stand other than me anyway.

So quiet, so low maintenance, so reliable. And instant production for me (no break in period). Like, like, like :)

[cbianco]

With regards to HOB models...

I love my AquaC Remora. It cleans my tank and has never "talked back" to me. I can't remember ever having to clean it only clean the pump.

With that said...

I don't think that the Remora is the best skimmer you can buy for $150-200 at this time. If I were to purchase another skimmer in this range, I would probably buy an AquaMaxx (rebranded whatever).

http://c1.f3images.com/IMD/600/UJ1151/UJ1151_1.jpg

JMO

Christopher :)

[ReefOne]

This is what i'm going to try to build:

http://glassbox-design.com/2010/atb-elegance-200-pro-skimmer-big-performance-small-footprint/

http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/atb-elegance-pro-skimmer.jpg

[txg8gxp]

That looks like a fun build, I want one...

[RayAllen]

I like Texas Todd am a Reef Octopus fan. Actually quite a few on the board have or have had a Reef Octopus skimmer. Ive had 4 since being in the hobby, have never let me down. I currently have a needel wheel and love it. Im not concerned about plankton so its not an issue for me to use a needlewheel pump.

[RayAllen]

Hats off to anyone skilled in acrylic work that can build their own.

[txg8gxp]

I really like the look of the reef octopus super xp cone skimmers. I have the NWB110 and it does it's job, I can't say anything bad about it.

[StevenSeas]

Just an observation, but doesnt it seem like the contact chamber/time on the newer "higher end" skimmers seems to be DECREASING? I know they are trying to conserve space and avoid it from looking ugly but really I mean the lack of contact time seems to bother me some. just my thoughts

[Europhyllia]

I am one who believes in skimming just not as much as others.

I used to completely agree with you on that topic (and still would be if it wasn't for the BioPellets).
My pH has been on the low side since using the pellets and I've been dripping kalk at night whenever it drops below a certain point to counteract the CO2 that is a byproduct of the pellets converting nutrients.
Of course I know the pellets are converting a lot of nutrients because I am putting in a lot of food but hey that's why I got the pellets: to let me feed like I want to. :)
Not everybody using pellets will have such a big nutrient conversion.

If it wasn't for the pellets I would still be very happy with an undersized skimmer.

But I think with the pellets and especially with how much I feed and the resulting CO2 production by the pellets a very effective skimmer is a must now for me.

I am even more excited about the spray injection method this morning than I was before. :) I usually go through 2 gallons of kalk a night to keep pH where I want it. This has been the first night with the AquaC on and I just checked on it: I used only 1 gallon (half of the usual) and my pH still is perfect. :D

I assume the difference must be one of two things (Or both):
- fantastic aeration capacity compared to my correctly sized ventury Elos and undersized needlewheel AMS skimmers
- faster, more effective waste removal so the pellets have less to chew on

[txg8gxp]

awesome...

I used to completely agree with you on that topic (and still would be if it wasn't for the BioPellets).
My pH has been on the low side since using the pellets and I've been dripping kalk at night whenever it drops below a certain point to counteract the CO2 that is a byproduct of the pellets converting nutrients.
Of course I know the pellets are converting a lot of nutrients because I am putting in a lot of food but hey that's why I got the pellets: to let me feed like I want to. :)
Not everybody using pellets will have such a big nutrient conversion.

If it wasn't for the pellets I would still be very happy with an undersized skimmer.

But I think with the pellets and especially with how much I feed and the resulting CO2 production by the pellets a very effective skimmer is a must now for me.

I am even more excited about the spray injection method this morning than I was before. :) I usually go through 2 gallons of kalk a night to keep pH where I want it. This has been the first night with the AquaC on and I just checked on it: I used only 1 gallon (half of the usual) and my pH still is perfect. :D

I assume the difference must be one of two things (Or both):
- fantastic aeration capacity compared to my correctly sized ventury Elos and undersized needlewheel AMS skimmers
- faster, more effective waste removal so the pellets have less to chew on