New Tank! (New to me at least)

[DarkHorseMBA]

After much shopping around I finally found the deal I wanted on a used tank and equipment. I’ll be driving up to Austin to pick it Saturday. I’d like to run my plan for setting up and cycling the tank by the group. The tank is 75G (48x18x21), with refugium, skimmer and T5 lighting.

Here is my plan, I’m sure I’ll have more but this is just front of mind.

My criteria:

I’m not in hurry
I want to use humane cycling (no sacrificial fish)
Don’t want to crowd the system with DSB or tons of rock
I’d like to use plants and DSB in the refugium


The setup plan

Use Dry sand, about 1.5” – 2”, in the display
Dry/Base rock, about 70lbs.
I’ll seed the sand and rock to make them “alive”


Some questions

Sand
What's good sand to use, size/color? I'd like to keep sand sifting livestock, Gobies, Cucumbers, etc.

Placing the Rock
Should I place the sand first, with rock on top, or rock on the base bottom with sand around it?
Another option I've seen is placing the rock on small pieces of PVC to make space under to rock for sand to move.


Cycling
I’ve read that some raw table shrimp will get the process started, just toss it in the tank. Anyone done this, any other recommendations?

Seeding the sand/rock
I’m going to use one of these products to seed.
http://ipsf.com/ (They have sand activator and Coralline Algea Booster™)
http://www.garf.org (The “grunge+” product)

Should I add these after the tank has cycled, or from the get go?
Would I be better off seeding with some live rock, instead of the booster IPSF sells?

Test kits
What’s a good test kit?

Thank you so much for your help, we (my family and I) are excited to begin!
Sunil, DarkHorse

[Mr Cob]

Sounds nice.

Seeding....let us seed for you...no need to buy anything just post that you are looking for some scoops of sand from established tanks along with some samples of macro algae and rubble.

Cycling...no need to add anything if you are using uncured liverock. If you have already cured liverock then feed some frozen food, it will turn to waste and start the cycle.

[Mr Cob]

I like using fine aragonite for sand substrate.

I also place a small layer of sand in...just enough to cover the glass and then stack the rock to your liking making sure it is solid. Once it is solid then add the rest of the sand. This is important if you plan to have livestock that like to burrow because if you add the sand first and then place the liverock on top then you may have a disaster waiting as they move the sand around.

[hobogato]

i agree with the things rob said, and would like to add that you may want to rethink the depth of the sand. if you go deeper than about an inch for a shallow sand bed, it becomes a detritus trap and you may see lots of cyano issues down the road.

[txav8r]

X2 on the cup of sand for seeding the tank. I try not to add any chemicals to my tank if I can help it. No telling what is in those so called "seeding" products. A good rule to live by is "if you don't test for it, don't dose it".

[Mr Cob]

nice Ace...I totally missed that.

Go 1" or less or 4" or more (I think some go 3" but I always say 4" just to be safe)

[DarkHorseMBA]

Ace & Mr. Cob,
Would an inch of sand support Gobies and other sand sifters?

-Sunil

[DarkHorseMBA]

Sounds nice.

Seeding....let us seed for you...no need to buy anything just post that you are looking for some scoops of sand from established tanks along with some samples of macro algae and rubble.

Cycling...no need to add anything if you are using uncured liverock. If you have already cured liverock then feed some frozen food, it will turn to waste and start the cycle.

Thanks for the sand offer, I'll be sure take you up on that.
Can I add the sand at anytime, right after setup?
I don't need to add anything since it's dry rock, but will the tank still cycle?

Sunil

[Mr Cob]

when you are ready to seed just post in the "wanted" forum that you are looking for sand, macro and rubble...you'll get more responses than just me. Feel free to PM me when the time comes but at the moment I do not have an established sand bed...I'm between tanks and doing 2 builds myself. I do have macro and rubble though. MAAST members are always eager to help....it comes back time and time again.

As I said before...add the sand once you get the rock in place. I would go deep sand bed (DSB) if you are wanting to keep sand sifters....a lot of sand sifters feed off of what's in the sand and not a lot grows in shallow sand beds.

The tank will most likely cycle even if nothing is added because there is probably something dead in the rock that needs to decay....but to speed it up is when you might want to add something. I would just add some frozen food like krill or brine shrimp....it will decay and your tank will cycle. Once it's done cycling then you can add a few snails/hermits and a hardy fish....then wait because the tank will have to adjust to the new bioload.

[DarkHorseMBA]

As I said before...add the sand once you get the rock in place. I would go deep sand bed (DSB) if you are wanting to keep sand sifters....a lot of sand sifters feed off of what's in the sand and not a lot grows in shallow sand beds.


Sorry for all the questions. I've done a lot of research on my own, and it only leaves me with more questions. Not to mention for every option/method out there is a a bunch conflicting advice.

Would 4" be consider DSB?
Is it 4" of the same grade sand, or different grades layered?
Any Negative aspects to DSB?

Thanks again for all your help.

Sunil

[txav8r]

Anything over 3" is a normally concidered a DSB. No need to layer different grades. It will all get mixed up in time anyway.

[Mr Cob]

Sorry for all the questions. I've done a lot of research on my own, and it only leaves me with more questions. Not to mention for every option/method out there is a a bunch conflicting advice.

Would 4" be consider DSB?
Is it 4" of the same grade sand, or different grades layered?
Any Negative aspects to DSB?

Thanks again for all your help.

Sunil

What Jack said.

Everyone has a perspective on DSB or not and bare bottom. They all have pros and cons....and most everyone is right. Just depends what is more important to you. I have done all but bare bottom. I'm even doing a part foam bottom at the moment which I think will probably have more cons than any option available but I wanted to try something new.

I have experienced the bad from DSB and the red zone of a 2" sand bed...lots of dead spots and algae control issues but.... what looks better than a nice natural looking deep sand bed? Well...that's if you can keep it clean. A lot of people run into problems at I believe the 4 year mark with DSB...but I have never kept a tank up for longer than 2 years....I have what some might call commitment problems.

Personally, I prefer DSB.

Anyways...100 different ways to do the same thing. Best you can do is ask lots of questions and see what works best for you. MAAST is a great place to bring your google research to and cross check it with the members. We have a lot of experienced members here that helped me a ton when I first got started and continue to help.

[DarkHorseMBA]

Thanks for the help everyone, think I'm going to go with 1.5" of Caribasea "Super Reef" .5mm - 2.0 mm. The company's site says it's safe for burrowers, soft Bellies and sifters. figure the larger grain will blow around less.

still looking for dry rock, but I'm leaning toward MarcoRocks.

Thanks for the help, I'll keep y'all posted.

DarkHorse.