Cook, boil, freeze

[CoryDude]

Over the years, my liverock has collected every known undesirable algae known to man. I'm getting ready to reboot my entire tank, so I want to nuke my liverock.

I had planned on 2 months of cooking the liverock, to avoid going through a nitrogen cycle again. But, after my worst day as a reefer today, I don't care what I have to do as long as it's done right.

I just want to go with the option that works the best and gives me the best chance at starting with clean rock again. Looking to kill off bryopsis, derbesia, some other turf algae, various rouge mushrooms, and a few green star polyps. Got any ideas or suggestions?

[Europhyllia]

I completely dried it, then bleached it, then soaked it in FW with Prime, then dried it again for another few weeks.
Now I got it cycling with Fritz bacteria (didn't want to 'seed' it from my current tank and just felt better with a good quality commercial starter.

Here's the scary part: my dead bleached white caulerpa looks slightly green in places now.
Surely it can't come back after all of this? Can it? Because if it can then I give up...

[ErikH]

scrub.

[allan]

I don't even want to say this out loud so imagine mr whispering this in the corner with averted eyes...


"tang"


Duck and cover flak vest donned. :)

[Europhyllia]

Noooo.
just kidding
Trouble is it's usually the not so tasty stuff that grows like crazy.
CoryDude sounds like somebody that may already have a tang though. Does he?

[justahobby]

Have you tried Tech M? For turf algae, why not a turf scrubber?

[allan]

I think the deal is to have the tang on the left side of your problem. I've put hair algae covered rocks into my tank and the tanga will pick it clean, my yellow tank being the most prolific eater.

I've had issues with Texas trash that have made me want to start over but I've taken to rubbing those off with a dry towel and about 215 psi.

Is your tank truly that bad? Ping had issues with asparagus (or something like that) algae and I believe he eventually overcame it.

Can you post a few pics?

[allan]

Have you tried Tech M? For turf algae, why not a turf scrubber?

Right there, ping used one to get over the algae issues.

[justahobby]

.......

Is your tank truly that bad? Ping had issues with asparagus (or something like that) algae and I believe he eventually overcame it.

Can you post a few pics?

asparagopsis algae? Troy V also fought this. I remember him saying Turbos eat it if you consistently place them on it.

[allan]

The only problem with turbos...

You know I remember Tony v telling me the same thing.

[Europhyllia]

I think it really takes a year of pruning, scrubbing, buying herbivores and being worse off a year down the road to understand where one can get to the point where
burning the liverock in a barrel doused in gasoline seems like a great idea.

I don't know the details of CoryDude's algae problem but I can tell you that fighting algae can really take the joy away from this hobby. After awhile it's all you do.
You start envying people that don't have to mow down algae every single day to stay ahead and can just focus on a weekly water change and feeding the fish.

At some point you just get sick of sticking your arm in the tank just to place another critter on the trouble algae, prune it by hand, scrub it with a toothbrush, buy more herbivores that end up not eating the stuff either.

The stuff that takes over is usually the stuff nobody eats because the toxic substances in it make the critters sick if eaten in any significant amounts.

I say burn it, bake it, get all new dry rock. Whatever it takes.

Death to Caulerpa (I'd love to exchange it for some nice hair algae if I could!)!
Death to whatever plagues CoryDude!

[justahobby]

The only problem about adding a Tang is you are adding to the bioload.... Another mouth to feed and the phosphates get pooped out just like prepared fish food phosphates do.

[Big_Pun]

Wow Karin do we need to start a nuisance algae support group, i still cant believe how big a prob caulerpa was in your tank. i keep it in my display(Caulerpa prolifera) on one side kinda(since day one) shady area right next to rocks and it just grows in sand no problem. i think you had a nutrient problem somewhere that was feeding them. what type was yours?

[Europhyllia]

The difference is:
Caulerpa prolifera is edible. Somebody is happy to eat it. It also doesn't multiply as easily as racemosa or has as strong as a foothold as racemosa. It's much easier to remove roots from sand than from rocks

Caulerpa racemosa is toxic to most any critter. Select critters might eat it for a limited time in limited amounts. It also releases that toxin and can harm livestock when you do prune it yourself. It grows into the rocks so when you try and peel it off there's always runners left in it that sprout new plants.

I'd be happy to give you a frag if you'd like to experience the difference. ;)

[CoryDude]

Good discussion. The two main pests are bryopsis and derbesia. But, now there's a red turf algae that's getting a foothold in the tank. I've even seen a few pieces of a tight hugging caulerpa lately. Of course there's bubble algae too. Nitrates are around 2mg/L - 5mg/L. But, it's enough to keep this stuff going.

I've used tech-m in the past, but as soon as I bring the levels back to the 1300-1400 range, the bryopsis comes back. The derbesia is a whole other headache.

The tank's been up for a while, and I've been wanting to replace the sand bed anyways. Coupled with the AEFW and subsequent coral losses, I'm just ready to tear everything apart, and start over. I'd planned on cooking the rock in tubs for 2 months, but now I'm wondering if drying it, freezing, and maybe bleaching it might be a better approach.

The new setup is going to be a 120 with a refugium. Probably also going to incorporate an algae turf scrubber too. I hopping that a low nutruient system and stringent coral addition process will limit reintroducing new problems.

As far as tangs go, are we talking yellow tangs only, or would a blue hippo tang work with future hair algae?

[StevenSeas]

most any tang should work with the hair algae as long as its the common stuff and not bryposis. As far as bryposis eaters go I know that lettuce nudibranchs are obligatory bryposis feeders


Elysia are very good grazers... but more on nuisance algae like Bryopsis. I realize that you are not trying to encourage this sort of algae and I hope that your success growing Gracilaria limits nutrients and prevents any such algae from growing. In turn... a lettuce sea slug may starve. I would wait on buying this little bugger

from Anthony Calfo on this page on WWM, this particular response is near the end of the page
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nudiselfaqs.htm

[allan]

Ooh, and from the layman with two thumbs (this guy), my blue hippo doesn't eat much of the algae even when presented on a clip until it sees another tang eating it. I've got three, and in the order of eating capabilities of each I would rate them as Yellow tang, Brown tang, ............................................... oh, there he is, the blue hippo tang.

My yellow is always eating, sometimes at nothing that I am able to see. I can only assume that he his practicing for when the real thing grows.

I've got some kind of algae that grows over the top of my overflow, looks like green little mountains. The yellow is the only one that will swim all the way up there to nibble at the stuff.

[StevenSeas]

I do agree with that Allan however if tangs arent fed as regulary they will be forced to scrounge around for food a little more often and are more likely to eat the stuff. but if the choice is between: food that comes from the sky and all they have to do is grab it or having to go bang their mouth against some rocks to try to scrape off any scrap of spare algae. I know i would choose the magical food from the sky

Also I do agree that some tangs are more prone to continual scavanging and searching for algae. My girlfriends Red Sea Purple tang well thats all he does is look for food just like Allans yellow at nothing I can see. Also other tangs I have seen with similar body styles to the purple and the yellow tend to be more active scavangers for algae. and the more oblong ones like the poweder blues and browns, and blue hippo tend to do in lesser amounts

[justahobby]

From what I have read, people w/ success at using Tech M maintain the high ppm for weeks after treatment effectively killing it off entirely. But could take gallons and be very costly.

[Europhyllia]

I am waiting for bstreep to chime in with his bryopsis experience.
I got rid of my bryopsis with Kent Tech-M but it was Bryopsis plumosa and easy to kill. Not every bryopsis responds to it

[CoryDude]

I kept my mg levels at almost 2000 for nearly 3 months. The bryopsis would go away, but then return after the levels were brought back down. Or, I could have reintroduced some when adding new corals. As y'all know, there's never an easy answer in this hobby.

I pm'ed bill before I even posted this thread. He seems to be the resident expert in this subject.

I've frozen rock before with some success. But, it wasn't anything large scale like this project would be. I'd just put a piece or two in an old plastic grocery bag and leave it in the freezer for a few days. My wife hated it, but it seemed to work.

[ErikH]

There's an algae killer for FW that kills pretty much all algaes. You'd have to search around for the threads though.

[ErikH]

I think it was either algae killer or algae fix.

[ErikH]

OH and it was used in a FBR (full blown reef!)

I personally thought the guy was STUPIDDDDDDDD :) but he didn't lose anything.

[Kristy]

Interesting discussion...

I have read articles about proper disposal of macroalgaes in order to avoid introducing them into our ecosystems, etc. that swear freezing them is the only way to go. I think it would be worth a try.

[Europhyllia]

Interesting discussion...

I have read articles about proper disposal of macroalgaes in order to avoid introducing them into our ecosystems, etc. that swear freezing them is the only way to go. I think it would be worth a try.
Wow. Wish I had known that! I hope mine don't come back after drying out/bleaching

[Europhyllia]

Whew I just looked up safe disposal procedure for macro:

As responsible aquarists, we need to remember that our fish are not the only creatures in our care that can damage an ecosystem. It is very simple to add bleach to old water during maintenance to kill organisms from the tank, and to kill any harvested macroalgae before pouring the tank water down the drain. Or, if you're opposed to bleach, freezing the alga, or leaving it out to dry completely, is also effective.

So I am hoping I am good. I would think drying should destroy the cells much like freezing would.

[CoryDude]

Karin, what parts water to bleach ratio did you use?

So far I'm thinking I'll dry the rock, freeze it, then soak in a bleach solution and then finally rinse and dry again before adding to the new tank.

[Europhyllia]

here's a thread where bstreep mentions his recipe:
http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?59693-Turning-Liverock-into-Dry-Rock-and-back/page2&highlight=caulerpa

I think I used more than that. Don't remember. It was burn your eyes stinky though -that kind of ratio...