Red Planaria, FlatwormExit Treatment DONE

[ErikH]

I have red planaria everywhere. I have even seen some on some dead spots of SPS. I can't believe how bad it got and how quickly it has grown into a monster that is not getting any better.

I plan on using the most dreaded FlatwormEXIT. I have read nothing but horror story after horror story about it, so I think that's the right way to go.

How much water should I keep on hand for a water change?

Should I get my fish out of there first? I know they are toxic to fish upon death.

My flow is over 9000 gph in the display and my bioload is small for the gallonage. I guess they are thriving from the lighting?

What else?

I would like to try wrasses, but they are expensive when they die. I am looking to trade for them if anyone else is too.

I have a puffer and an eel in my reef which kind of disuades me from using small wrasses...

Ideas, thoughts, horror stories, successes?

[Europhyllia]

Good luck bro. I don't even know what planaria are but I hope you get rid of them without too much damage to other stuff.
Are they the red flatworms?

[Bill S]

The biggest problem with flatworm exit is the bio load when they all die. Take a look at what you might be doing before dosing.

[acropoorer]

Hi Erik,

I'm surprised that your blue green chromis haven't eaten them. Usually a school of 5 or 6 keeps planeria near extinction. Try not feeding them for a few days and see if they don't start eating the worms.

BTW, how is the oregon tort doing for you?

[ErikH]

Karin, yeah they are the red flatworms. Not near as bad as AEFW, but there are so many it looks like I have cyano on my sandbed. My rocks have them all over too.

Yeah there are tons and the solution seems to be to siphon them off and siphon and siphon and siphon some more. Then when there are very little, use the FWE and do a hefty water change. I think I can manage that, I just dont want to have to do this a million times. Life is harder trying to reach around in a 200.

[ErikH]

That tort is doing great! I have at at the top of my rockwork now. It's pretty hardy, some of the other corals perished that I got that day, but that tort is encrusting already! It's a tad brown, but its under some not so blue 10ks.

I will not feed the chromis. I have 8 of them. They aren't really ever by the sandbed, just in the upper half of the tank schooling around together. We went to both Padre Islands this weekend and didn't feed until we got home. It does look a tad better. Maybe that's why. I'll have to turkey baste the rocks and see if they will gobble them up, thanks for the idea. :)

Is that German still hangin in there? It's really hardy, just slow as molasses.

[acropoorer]

The german is doing great. Already encrusting the plug. The oregon should go bright blue under 10k, even if they are a little yellow.

Do you run a phosphate reactor at all? Usually takes some high nutrient for planaria to get a strong foot hold, especially if you have 8 BG chromis (in spite of what everyone says about wrasses, the chromis is the only fish I have seen actively eat the little buggers). Flatworm exit is only a temporary fix, never kills them all.

When I first set up my 180 I had a nasty outbreak, but couldn't get any flatworm exit -- all the stores were out. Freaked me out cause I was new to the hobby and the old literature referred to them as the red plague. Bought a 6-line and a mandarin, but only saw the chromis actually eat them. By the time the FW exit finally came in they had already disappeared. I will sometimes see one or two, but not in my main display. They can multiply like crazy under high light, but not without sufficient nutrient in the water, rock or substrate. Try cutting down on feeding, doing some water changes and running rowa-phos or equivalent. Also, be sure that the salt you use doesn't have high phosphates (coralife is near 0 but there are some others that are very low).

I also used to get them in my frag tank, but only after the bottom filled up with crude. I run all bare bottom now, love the sand, but its a nutrient haven. Always have to mess with it and it blows around.

Good luck. Am hoping you'll do well with acro's. Lots of people quit, an heck, you're just such a likable guy--would hate to see you get frustrated and quit.

[ErikH]

Oh I am not a quitter, more like a starve myself and donate blood to afford this hobby kind of guy. LOL

I run a TLF reactor, which has the Bulk Reef Supply GFO pellets in it. I only clean the glass about once, maybe twice a week. It's nice! I changed up the flow pattern a bit, and they are congregating in one area, at least the majority is, and I am going to suck them out.

I am going to start running rice in a bag today, have been following aurora's thread on RC about it just to make sure my N's and P's are anhillated. I'm just suprised that the things that they thrive on aren't really present in my tank, although they were about a month or two ago.

I'm gonna ride it out, and try to keep my head above water. :)

Thanks for the kind words Dale, positivity is what it's all about! :D That and ENERGYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTMQBkTuT8Y

[Europhyllia]

I had those red flatworms. They came. Stayed for a couple of weeks and then completely disappeared. Not sure why or how. Maybe it's just a temporary thing?

[acropoorer]

Just drink red bull and say yes to everything! The worms will go away.

[ErikH]

Ok so time to update.

I have a rock upside down in some seachem dip, and as I type just noticed I have red tinged fingers. Found the biggest AEFW on my blue mille and a crapload of eggs. Scraped the eggs and squashed the flatworm with all the hate and anger I had. Those blue/white LEDs (similar to 12k in color) lights are pretty keen for finding AEFW. The one I saw last night was over 1/4" was right on the front, and I was staring at the coral till my eyes started buggin'. Finally I saw it move. It's unbelieveable how well they blend in, but those LEDs make them sheen. Now I know what to look for. Eggs were in the same spot, same mille. Still didn't see any on the red mille which just looks like hell.

The Red planaria are in small numbers now, but I know onc I turn the lights on they are gonna multiply like rabbits to ensure the survival of their species. I swear these things have brains.

Ok gotta go, time to shake the rock that doesn't fit in the 5g bucket and hope that what I did was enough to control the AEFW.

OOP forgot to hit post reply

[ErikH]

Ok so I did the treatment. Swapped out 60 gallons of water, and have the HIATT hooked directly to my return and it's pumping directly into the tank now. I took a video of the "Red Snowstorm" that looked like a "snowglobe" as my wife said. Here's what happened.

I dosed the whole bottle, enough for 300g. Within 3 minutes, planaria were stringing together coming off the rocks. I started to siphon with a small 3/8" diameter hose.

EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING looks terrible right now. My clams are totally closed, fish are swimming erratic.

Without the HIATT hooked into my Mag24, I don't think my fish would have lived. The fish are obviously disturbed, but less now than before. My water is totally orange, even after the 60 gallon swap. I changed the skimmer cup once already.

I also turned the MP40s on manual, and full blast, some RP are still stuck to the sand. This stuff is NOOOOOOOOOO JOKE! I am scared and happy all at the same time, kinda like before I went sky diving.

[Europhyllia]

Erik?!?
I thought the plan was to evacuate everything into the 100g tub? What happened? Did you dose the 300g dose into the 200g tank?
You must have nerves of steel. I'd be totally freaked out now and probably crying.

Good Luck. Hopefully all turns out okay.

[ErikH]

Yep the whole dose. It's super sketchy! The water is much more clearer than it was, but the fish still seem really affected. You would not believe the amount of planaria. I am glad I got video.

[ErikH]

Just in case, I have the 40g frag tank.....

[txav8r]

You got a video?? Post it up brotha!

[ErikH]

I will it's going to take an hour or two to upload. I will start on it now.

[ErikH]

Ok nevermind, it was a short video. Here it is!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp6mIt9YxT0

[ErikH]

video's working now.

[Reefer4ever]

Do you know that flatworms let off toxins when they die? I think that is called nuking your tank, not curing your tank. I would do a 100% water change.

[CoryDude]

Like and evil snow globe. If you need any more tri-based carbon, let me know. I have about 3-4 pounds in my garage.

[kkiel02]

Looks like it did the trick. Snowing Planaria!!! You did have alot of worms. Did it affect your copepod population?

[ErikH]

Do you know that flatworms let off toxins when they die? I think that is called nuking your tank, not curing your tank. I would do a 100% water change.

Yeah man, I know all about it! :) I have been reading about RP for around 2 months now. Everything is perking back up.


Like and evil snow globe. If you need any more tri-based carbon, let me know. I have about 3-4 pounds in my garage.

Thanks for the offer, looks like everything is getting better, the fish are out and about again.


Looks like it did the trick. Snowing Planaria!!! You did have alot of worms. Did it affect your copepod population?

I am sure it did! It sure did the trick, but dang! My house REEKS right now!

[ErikH]

Ok so I am not out of the woods. One chromis is down for sure. Clown is looking like it is going to get pop eye. Turned off the carbon for a moment and flipped it around to try and stir it up. Hopefully it will do the trick. I am going to lose some SPS and that is puzzling. The swap water was spot on to the tank water, PH, Temp, Salinity, everything! Looks like it's going to be a long night....

[Europhyllia]

I am really just curious so please don't be offended but can I ask why you did it that way?
Overdosing on purpose, not having an evacuation tank ready, etc.

[Bill S]

Erik, we'll be up until at least midnight. I've got about 35 gallons of RO/DI and several buckets of Reef Crystals. 210 six six three 8079.

[Bill S]

I'm guessing Erik didn't think it was THAT bad. Hindsight is 20/20 - and I don't think any of us thought it was that bad. Otherwise, I'd have suggested that he dip the rocks in a container first, getting most of them, then treat the tank.

KEEP THE HIATT RUNNING, Erik.

[Big_Pun]

I just put new filters and added a second di,i have 55 gal of ro/di you can have I'm up late so call me if you need it , five four two five one zero six

[ErikH]

I have read thread after thread on AEFW treatments where guys dose 10X the normal amounts for their tank. As Salifert will tell you, it's not the chemical but the toxins that kill. My Goby is sifting sand again, thats definitely a good sign. Some fish swim around for periods of 15-20 minutes like nothing is going on, then they hide. Very strange. The clams were fully extended for a few minutes, and are now retracted again, very strange. My LPS seems fine, all of it, zoas, duncans acans are all out and happy, just fish and SPS are not acting 100% yet. I think tipping the HIATT to stir the carbon helped. The puffer was active, following my finger etc, but now he's hiding again. It is possible that they are not used to the lights being on right now, so they are acting like it's bedtime. I have all the windows open in the living room, trying to help air it out. I have my ozone on too, just to help make sure the water is saturated, since I am running out of idears. I do have an evac tank ready, I put the chromis in there, but once you notice that it's not ok, it's too late.

And as Bill said, I didn't think it was gonna be that bad. They had receeded severely since the addition of the MP40s. I mean by at least 3/4. I figured this was going to be a little thing, but they were everywhere. I have zoamats all over my rocks and they were coming out of them linked together like they were carpet. I am glad that there are so many that are dead and gone though! If I only lose one chromis, that's a good thing.

OH and as far as my SPS goes, plenty of people did 10x treatments with tanks full of SPS to get rid of AEFW. I am assuming that the toxins are potent to everything, and not just fish.

I will probably do another treatment depending on how everything looks over this next week. Once I am rid of these things, I will vow to myself and my tank that they will never make another appearance again.

I am most saddened by what looks like the loss of my Oregon Tort that I got from Dale. He gave me a big frag of it, and it has been a challenge to find a perfect spot for it. Now it looks like the opposite of heaven.

I am going to play some poker tonight online and just tip the HIATT every now and then. I can definitely say that without it my fish would all be dead.

KEEP ON KEEPIN ON.

[Big_Pun]

good luck Erik, " lifes a garden, dig it" lol

[Gseclipse02]

well if you need anything give me a call im up late also ... i have tons of random crap

[ErikH]

Yeah Chris, I am tryin to dig it! My blue tipped valida colony looks horrid. It's tan, and only tan right now. Only time will tell.

JT, thanks, I am keeping my eyes peeled.

[Europhyllia]

got it. thanks for explaining. :)
good luck

[txav8r]

good luck Erik, " lifes a garden, dig it" lol

Nice Joe dirt quote! Lol
Hope all goes well Erik. Holler if you need anything.

[Kristy]

We're pulling for you, Erik. That video was crazy. Talk about a ****storm!

[ErikH]

Thanks all, we will see what happens tomorrow!

[BSJF]

I would change the carbon out since it can release the toxins back in the tank.

[ballardjr2000]

WOW EVIL snow globe i think explains it. That was bad. Hope all is getting better.

[ErikH]

Everything looks good this morning. Lights aren't on yet but I put on my nerd light and I can see recognizable polyps. I can say this, I sure am sleepy. After the lights come on I'll get a head count and see what my total losses are.

[ErikH]

I would change the carbon out since it can release the toxins back in the tank. The HIATT will be going offline soon.


WOW EVIL snow globe i think explains it. That was bad. Hope all is getting better. Pure evil. Imagine your worst nightmare, but at the same time, the best dream you have ever had. :) I was ecstatic to see my sand white again. Small victory.

[Europhyllia]

well go check. we're all waiting for an update on all the fishies and clams!

[ErikH]

Water is very very clear. My Yellow Tang looks like hell, I may lose it. Two more chromis have bitten the dust for sure. My clown is going to get popeye. Tang is breathing heavy. No feeding response from fish when I put my blue zoo food in. Soldierfish looks fine, as does my cleaner wrasse, PJ cardinals. Puffer seems a bit stressed, but not as bad as my clown, chromis and tang. Engineer seems fine. Clams are extended except for my teardrop. Oregon Tort is bleached, Blue Tipped valida is now tan, Paletta Lovelli is much darker. Tang has a ?bone? showing prominently above it's white stress stripe. Xenia looks ok, all zoas and lps are fine. Corky finger is still black, but polyps are out. Mushrooms have white spots on them, and are totally retracted, but my yumas and rics are all fine.

Very puzzling. Really hope I don't lose any more fish.

[Europhyllia]

Oh man. Sweet little (photogenic) tang. I hope all survivors recover soon.

[ErikH]

Me too. The tang and clown's eyes are cloudy. I was just looking around, and there may have been some more die off of RP throughout the night causing the additional stress.

[Bill S]

Erik, I'd be sure and backflush that Hiatt right away - get rid of some of the gunk - and then put it back online.

[hobogato]

also, be sure you are running fresh carbon somewhere - the carbon in the hiatt loses it activated charcoal chemical filtering efficiency over time and fresh carbon will help remove those toxins.

[ErikH]

How do I backflush it?

[ErikH]

Ok got the HIATT offline and put in a new bag of carbon. I also removed my GFO from my TLF reactor and replaced it with carbon.

[Kristy]

I asked Mike about the backflushing since I haven't ever done it myself. Here are his instructions:

Take the Hyatt offline. Take it outside with some fresh water and a pump.
Pump the fresh water in through the exit side of the Hyatt and out the other side (thereby flushing it backwards).
Dump the discharged water, which collects the crud.

Now, if it were me, I would call Cory and get some of that replacement tri-sided charcoal he offered you, just to be on the safe(r) side.

[ErikH]

Anyone got his number or can they call him and give him mine 210-209-1233 ? ? ?

[Kristy]

I've got it. Sending you a text message.

[RayAllen]

I bet you are really missing that 75g about now.

Good luck with the recovery process, hope the majority pulls through for you.

[ErikH]

This tank has truly tested my resolve with this hobby, as well as my wallet. Thank God I had about 2 lbs of carbon. Hopefully I will hear from Cory soon too.

[RayAllen]

Makes you wonder why you want a big tank with everything is going down the tubes. Been their buddy, let me know if you need a hand with anything.

[ErikH]

Ok I just used the frag tank water, about 35g. Gonna do another one once I get more water made.

[ErikH]

Yellow Tang is dieing. It's got two patches where the yellow of the skin has sloughed off, and is now white. Very sad.

[Kristy]

Oh Erik, I am so sorry. That really stinks. I know he's your favorite.

[ErikH]

yeah. :(

[ErikH]

Looks like the signs are pointing to HLLE. The only thing is that when I left, the tang was ok, just stressed. I went to go get two new sets of carbon and sediment filters from AD, got back home and WHAM, a quarter sized area of sloughed off skin. To me that seems insanely fast. The one thing I hate about the hobby is needing to know the answer so it makes sense in your own head so you can let it go, but never being able to figure out exactly what the cause of death was. At this point, I am ready for them all to die, there's just no real way to know. I am making a new 100g tub of fresh SW and am gonna see what happens. I really just wish I had definitive answers.

[ErikH]

OH, and the HLLE could have been caused by the new carbon that I added earlier today, since there are many theories trying to link carbon dust and HLLE. I rinsed the tar out of the carbon, and let the water run into a white cup to ensure there was no black dust.

[BSJF]

So is your tank also cycling from the die-off?

[Europhyllia]

I have a 30g tank you can have for awhile just to get them out of there and into regular water with no junk in it. If there getting out of that mess maybe they still have a chance?

[Gseclipse02]

why not put all the fish into the frag tank with ne 20% of the bad water and 80% new water may help them out

[ErikH]

The frag tank has been emptied, it is all in the display now. Since taking the carbon out, the fish are acting better. I fed them, and they ate. That's a good thing. :)

Still making 100g of water to swap, so after that if I have problems, I will start the frag tank up again. Just have to make the water.

Thank you for your offers and suggestions. It is much appreciated.

[Bill S]

Still have plenty of water...

[ErikH]

Thanks Bill. I am making some, so I should be ok. Fish are acting alot better, but it's been up and down. We will see.

[CoryDude]

Wow, the one day I go to Austin and all hell breaks loose. Man, I'm really sorry to hear about the losses Erik. Wish I could offer some advice, but I've never done a flatworm treatment like this. I fell yo' pain bro on the losses, especially the tang and the tort bleach. Personally, I still don't think the carbon was the problem with the HLLE, but who knows in this hobby.

I still have 5-6lbs of the tri-based carbon that was only used for about 3 days, so there's still a lot of absorbing power left in it. Even if you just need it to help polish the water, you're still welcome to it. You got my number. I'll be home all day Thurs so feel free to call and stop by if you change your mind.

[ErikH]

Ok so, my wife really really loves me. She told me she had a suprise for me. Well I got home and in bags floating in my rubbermaid are 2 baby yellow tangs to replace the 2 6+ year old tangs that we lost this year. Talk about love. I love her so much!!!!! I got tears welling up :wub:

[Europhyllia]

That's very sweet :)
So how many tanks do you have running right now? Where will the yellow tangs go?

[ErikH]

Well, I got 70 gallons give or take a few sitting here next to me.... I think If I do one more big water change I should be a-ok. Corals all have polyps today, and my fish are acting normal again. Oh, and my teardrop is almost fully extended, which it was closed completely yesterday. My corky finger gorgo looks tons better too.

[Europhyllia]

Whew... glad most of it pulled through and the nightmare is over! :)

[kkiel02]

When you said you had the rp I had no idea you had that many. I did a similar procedure about a year ago now with a similar product to flatwormexit. The flatworms were only in my overflows though. Very strange. I only counted maybe 30 in both overflows so I was thinking something along those lines. I just turned off my skimmer and removed carbon then replaced the carbon and skimmer as directed. Again though I had ALOT less and that makes a huge difference.

Glad everything is turning for the better. Plus I didnt ever redosed the flatworm treatment and never saw them again. Hopefully you will not have to either.

[ErikH]

Thanks y'all. I put the two tangs in and they are schooling around together. They haven't left each other's side. Just like the other two. Both are skinny, and I fed a ton tonight. They both ate, but I am going to have to keep it up, because their little bellies are still inverted a bit.

I hope everyone learns from all of my mistakes!

[ErikH]

Ok, so they are back. I cannot believe it. I guess I am going to dip rocks this time, and move fish before treatment. I think I am going to pull out my frag tank to use for the dip, and then the rubbermaid to hold it all. I sincerely cannot believe it! Very frustrating, but I gotta keep at it because I have so much time and energy into this hobby that it would only be a failure if I quit. Everyone send some positive juju my way.

[alton]

Erik I know this doesn't help but how about I buy you a beer next weekend after LMAR and just take a break on a tough week this week.

[Europhyllia]

in too deep to quit now. Definitely put the fish in a safe place before you do it.
Good Luck! (and sorry. can't believe some survived. I guess eggs hatched after the nuking?)

[ErikH]

Not sure if RP reproduce through eggs, like AEFW, but it is possible. Definitely in too deep to quit.

Alton, a beer sounds great!

[kkiel02]

Are you seeing them in huge numbers again?

If not do you think your sixlines could erradicate them? Im guessing last time they couldnt put a dent in because of the sheer numbers of flatworms?

Then again I would probably do it again just to be safe and make sure they are gone. I still have my flatworm meds if you want to give them a shot. Ill go find them in case you want them. I dont have a use for them anymore. (as I knock on wood) lol

[ErikH]

Not in huge numbers.... I just used a toothbrush to try and kill the ones on the rock that I saw. What kind of stuff do you have?

[kkiel02]

Flatworm Control

[ErikH]

Kevin I will be in the area tomorrow, will you be available?

I moved about 5 more lbs of sand out of the tank. Tab and I discussed it, and we're going to remove the rock, catch all of the fish, FW dip the rocks, remove the sandbed, put the rocks back in, and nuke nuke nuke. Fun fun. :(