Who runs a Skimmerless system

[RayAllen]

For those of you running a skimmerless reef/FOWLR/FO tank.

What do you run in its place?

My current biocube 29 runs skimmer less with just rubble and the tank does great going on a year now. My 180g is running a Carbon reactor and macro fuge. Im thinking I need more filtration, but do I have to go the skimmer route or is there another alternative.

[Europhyllia]

I got some good input on a similar thread not too long ago:
http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?60196-Pros-and-Cons-of-SKimmers&highlight=skimmer+pros

[ballardjr2000]

On fishgeeks there is a guy running a 215 tank with NO sump, skimmer or anything, just LOTS of live rock and sand. basically ALL BIO filtering and plenty of flow. ODD but i have seen it done. My 12g nano is skimmerless i fun some corse media, fine media, and rubble by on a 12g i do have to do water changes weekly so that helps out a lot.

[RayAllen]

Im not a weekly water changer. Im a every 3 week/ once a month water changer. Ive never had problems this way on my tanks but they have all had skimmers with the exception of the tanks I have now. Im going to read into the link you sent Karin.

[alton]

I go skimmerless on my 29. But I do 5 gallon water changes per week so with liverock/sand/gravel removed probably 20 gallons of water left so thats 25% water changes. I can't do that on a 300. I have had in the past a 75 and a 158 where I only ran a skimmer one week out of the month because the skimmer did not skim otherwise. Both tanks had large amounts of Xenia and GSP which did a great job of filtering out impurities. As a matter of fact if i ran my skimmer too much my Xenia woulld quit pulsing. On my old 200 I had Xenia and GSP and still dumped the skimmer cup twice a week. I think we sometimes have a tendency to maybe run too large of a skimmer, but in most cases we still need to skim if only sometimes, unless we are replacing a lot of water in our tanks.

[txav8r]

There is a guy on here that has a large tank that runs skimmer-less and no sump, Or at least he did the last time I was at his house.

His name is Ace aka Hobogato. ;)

[RayAllen]

I go skimmerless on my 29. But I do 5 gallon water changes per week so with liverock/sand/gravel removed probably 20 gallons of water left so thats 25% water changes. I can't do that on a 300. I have had in the past a 75 and a 158 where I only ran a skimmer one week out of the month because the skimmer did not skim otherwise. Both tanks had large amounts of Xenia and GSP which did a great job of filtering out impurities. As a matter of fact if i ran my skimmer too much my Xenia woulld quit pulsing. On my old 200 I had Xenia and GSP and still dumped the skimmer cup twice a week. I think we sometimes have a tendency to maybe run too large of a skimmer, but in most cases we still need to skim if only sometimes, unless we are replacing a lot of water in our tanks.

I like your thinking Alton. My 180g is a FOWLR but im going to add easy to grow soft corals, the tank is lit with 440watts of VHO. A whole lot of xenia would be great in a FOWLR catch a lot of the uneaten meaty food and other debri.

Im going to go ahead and invest in a skimmer for this tank, already posted in the wanted section. Just wanted to here some opinions and thoughts on the matter.

[RayAllen]

There is a guy on here that has a large tank that runs skimmer-less and no sump, Or at least he did the last time I was at his house.

His name is Ace aka Hobogato. ;)

You know what he does that I do not. A lot of water changes, haha. More than once a week from what I remember in his thread. I honestly believe the majority only do a water change once a month at the most. I know there are those who do it more often but the majority do not.

[Europhyllia]

Maybe people could be more helpful if you explained why you would not want a skimmer (removal of beneficial stuff, cost, space,etc.)

[RayAllen]

Its not rather or not I want one. Im looking at the pros and cons of having or not having one. Financially im trying not to invest a lot of money in this tank and if I really do not need a skimmer why buy it. On another note I do not want to invest in a lot of livestock and not have a skimmer if they will benefit more from me having one. Some fish I think- like tangs are more fragile and will benefit more from having a skimmer. Some corals like xenia, shrooms, kenya benefit from not having a skimmer because they prefer water on the less skimmed side.

I think the best thing for me do is buy a decent skimmer and possibly run it on a timer so that its not constantly running. Maybe on a reverse cycle with my fuge lighting. Something I will look further into once I find one.

[tony]

ive had probly 10 or so different setups over the years and only had a skimmer on 1 tank, its not that hard to do IMO

[Europhyllia]

Its not rather or not I want one. Im looking at the pros and cons of having or not having one.
That's what I meant. I should have phrased as: what are your goals/priorities/concerns in regards to skimmers

[tony]

looking at the nog one pulls out should be the only pro you need, along with the lower nitrates

only cons i can think of would be specific to each skimmer. ie maintenance, size, noise, etc . . .

[Europhyllia]

looking at the nog one pulls out should be the only pro you need, along with the lower nitrates

only cons i can think of would be specific to each skimmer. ie maintenance, size, noise, etc . . .

actually that's the thing. it pulls out some of the stuff you want to keep, may not pull out as much as you think of the stuff you don't want, etc.
But some good stuff being removed might be worth it as long as it also takes out a decent amount of the bad stuff?
Some people claim that the ever so popular needle-wheel skimmers are more damaging than some other technologies to the good stuff (plankton)

going skimmer less seems to require a lot of maintenance too. I think Ace said he does water changes twice a week.
I feel proud of myself for being able to stay on a once a week schedule! Twice a week wouldn't last long for me.

So I think there really is a lot to consider which way to go!

[ErikH]

I would only run skimmerless on a well established system. Things are too topsy turvy in the beginning. My 75 was skimmerless for along time, almost 2 years. I had a DSB, and everything under the waterline was sand rock and macro packed as tightly as I could get it. DO NOT get anything that will eat your microfauna, ie mandarins, sand sifting stars, etc. The more pods, the better. CRABS A PLENTY. Let the crabs, pods, and snails do all of your dirty work. I didn't water change but once a year, and when I did I removed all the rock out of my superfuge. Then I stirred up all of the detritus and drained that thing. I am trying to emulate the same on the 200. Currently I am running a skimmer, but I hate overflows etc. Plus vacations are EASY once it's all balanced out. The key is the balance. Every now and then I would get cyano, but what tank doesn't. I think the real key to an insanely stable system is tons of rock and sand that have been established in your setup. If I was you and plan on doing it from the get-go, just add your fish very, very, very, slowly. I did everything wrong on that tank, and it was a great tank! :)

[hobogato]

You know what he does that I do not. A lot of water changes, haha. More than once a week from what I remember in his thread. I honestly believe the majority only do a water change once a month at the most. I know there are those who do it more often but the majority do not.

you are correct ray, i do a 5 gallon water change twice a week. keep in mind, that only amounts to 40 gallons a month on about a 140 gallon tank.

[cbianco]

I've run a small skimmerless system (3 gallon Eclispe, 24 gallon JBJ NC) and I've run a small system with a skimmer (30 gallon Finnex).

BY FAR(!) the system with the skimmer is much easier to take care of and tend to. It is not as finicky nor is it (as) dependent on water changes.

However, I have no experience with larger skimmerless systems.

Just my $0.02.

:)

Christopher

[allan]

I ran a 100 gallon without a skimmer for about six months with a DSB/Macro fuge. I had planned on this doing the work ordinarily performed by the skimmer. But as the weeks went by and the dollars spent on coral I let fear motivate me to buy a skimmer to 'help things' along.

I currently run a skimmer, but it stopped pulling muck from the tank a few months ago. I'm thinking of taking it off line and doing a thorough overhaul... clean the recirulators and the pump, clean the inside of the chamber, give it a good vinegar soak.

Of course I am terrible at doing water changes. I do one about every couple of months or so. I did a five gallon water change about three or four weeks ago. I could probably use more live rock in my fuge. I've got about 250 gallons of water in the system considering the displacement of rock and sand.

I've noticed that turning off my skimmer and turning it back on at a later date really causes it to go crazy so I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or that it's a bad idea to run a skimmer on any kind of cycle.

[tony]

actually that's the thing. it pulls out some of the stuff you want to keep, may not pull out as much as you think of the stuff you don't want, etc.
But some good stuff being removed might be worth it as long as it also takes out a decent amount of the bad stuff?
Some people claim that the ever so popular needle-wheel skimmers are more damaging than some other technologies to the good stuff (plankton)

going skimmer less seems to require a lot of maintenance too. I think Ace said he does water changes twice a week.
I feel proud of myself for being able to stay on a once a week schedule! Twice a week wouldn't last long for me.

So I think there really is a lot to consider which way to go!


just because he does it that way doesnt mean its the only way that works. i was horrible with water changes, monthly 5-10% at best and that is being generous

[jpond83]

I own a skimmer, its in my sump, but not plugged in. I have about 60 -70 #'s of live rock in my tank and my tank is doing fine minus the fact my a/c went out a couple times. I keep zoanthids and mushrooms.. My new tank is only a few months old, but from my experience in my last tanks zoanthids grew like crazy and were very colorful and i didnt use a skimmer.